Are KO and Smart lack of production on the offensive end CBS fault?

[Tr1boy]

I know some of the things offensively (highlight below), neither of these guys won't be able to do in the NBA. But I would think at least 50 percent would be possible to do.   Marcus Smart in college got to the line about 5-6 times a game.  Now all he does is shoot the ball.  KO in college was instructed not to hang around the perimeter and find ways to score down low.  Now all he does is stick around the perimeter.     

Watch from 5:25 (scoring ability)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTTAlWSjVhc

Watch from 3:27 (finishing , back to the basket)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UYG1Ksrnm4

[cltc5]

How bout they're a rookie and 2nd year nba players and are still learning the game.  Gimme a break

[Rondo9]

How bout they're a rookie and 2nd year nba players and are still learning the game.  Gimme a break

Agreed.

[Kuberski33]

I think the expectation with Smart was that he'd struggle at times this season and be a much better player in year 2.  KO I just don't like as a player so I'm going to say no way you can blame where he's at now on CBS.  He's at best a 7th or 8th man for a decent team - I think that's his ceiling and I'm not sure he ever hits that at this point.

[Tr1boy]

How bout they're a rookie and 2nd year nba players and are still learning the game.  Gimme a break

You need to learn the game in order to drive to the basket and try to get a layup or get to the line?
you need to learn the game to receive passes down low and attempt a hook shot? Or spin from your defender to attempt a shot closer to the basket??

I want Smart to attack the basket John Wall style half the game instead of launching up jump shots exclusively. KO to get fed the ball downlow and encouraged to score from there instead of always hanging around the perimeter.   

[Boris Badenov]

Marcus Smart in college got to the line about 5-6 times a game.  Now all he does is shoot the ball.  KO in college was instructed not to hang around the perimeter and find ways to score down low.  Now all he does is stick around the perimeter.     

Is the fact that both KO and Smart are shooting a higher 3PT% in the NBA than they did in college (from a shorter distance) "CBS fault" too?

[Who]

I think CBS is hurting Sully's game the most by asking him to stand out at the three point line and space the floor instead of capitalizing more on his midrange shooting (and increased opportunities as cutter, passer, offensive rebounds and post ups due to closer proximity to basket).

I do think CBS should be encouraging Smart to drive the ball to the rim more often. I think CBS is too laid back and content with Smart taking 2/3rds of his shots from 3 point range. It is an unhealthy ratio of 3s vs 2s for a young developing player.

However, I also think vast majority of the situation is down to Smart either (1) he lacks the explosive quickness to get to basket and his offensive potential is much lower than we hope, or more optimistically, (2) he is struggling to attack quicker NBA caliber athletes / defenders and will improve over time as he better understands how best to attack those players.

Still, I do think CBS should be encouraging him more to drive the ball. To be aggressive. To make mistakes. It's the best way to learn. Smart doesn't need to drive all time but he does need to do it more frequently than he currently is.

With Olynyk, I think the biggest problem is minutes. I think players like him will struggle to be consistent from a bench role because he is a poor shot-creator. He relies on teammates to create opportunities for him. He is also predominantly an outside shooter which also leads to inconsistent scoring numbers in low minutes. So minutes are the big problem here. And Sully & Zeller are both more deserving of starting spots and big minutes so not CBS's fault.

[celtics2030]

The Celtics are making Sully look better than he is


he has all the free will in the world , is getting minutes and not being punished at all for some of the worst defense in the league for the minutes he gets...CBS is not going to pull him , so this fat overweight is going to keep taking tons of three pointers and playing terrible defense, especially down the stretch when he is gassed

He should not be getting over 23-25 minutes a game on decent team

All your seeing is Ainge trying to build value and trade him.

[Tr1boy]

I think CBS is hurting Sully's game the most by asking him to stand out at the three point line and space the floor instead of capitalizing more on his midrange shooting (and increased opportunities as cutter, passer, offensive rebounds and post ups due to closer proximity to basket).

I do think CBS should be encouraging Smart to drive the ball to the rim more often. I think CBS is too laid back and content with Smart taking 2/3rds of his shots from 3 point range. It is an unhealthy ratio of 3s vs 2s for a young developing player.

However, I also think vast majority of the situation is down to Smart either (1) he lacks the explosive quickness to get to basket and his offensive potential is much lower than we hope, or more optimistically, (2) he is struggling to attack quicker NBA caliber athletes / defenders and will improve over time as he better understands how best to attack those players.

Still, I do think CBS should be encouraging him more to drive the ball. To be aggressive. To make mistakes. It's the best way to learn. Smart doesn't need to drive all time but he does need to do it more frequently than he currently is.

With Olynyk, I think the biggest problem is minutes. I think players like him will struggle to be consistent from a bench role because he is a poor shot-creator. He relies on teammates to create opportunities for him. He is also predominantly an outside shooter which also leads to inconsistent scoring numbers in low minutes. So minutes are the big problem here. And Sully & Zeller are both more deserving of starting spots and big minutes so not CBS's fault.

some good points. Though Zeller does not deserve to start as of late

[Tr1boy]

The Celtics are making Sully look better than he is


he has all the free will in the world , is getting minutes and not being punished at all for some of the worst defense in the league for the minutes he gets...CBS is not going to pull him , so this fat overweight is going to keep taking tons of three pointers and playing terrible defense, especially down the stretch when he is gassed

He should not be getting over 23-25 minutes a game on decent team

All your seeing is Ainge trying to build value and trade him.

I was very disappointed with him take 2 or 3 threes in the 4th yesterday when he didn't have to . 

[Who]

I compare Smart to a young Artest from a physical / athletic point of view.

Both guys have good size and length combined with tremendous strength and elite lateral quickness relative to their position which allows them to really dominate defensively. But both players also lack explosive quickness which limits their offensive upside.

Artest was a low scoring player his first 2-3 years in the league. Averaged around 12ppg before blowing up in his 4th/5th years as a 20ppg threat as he learned how best to use to his physical talents to create advantage vs quicker opponents -- effectively how best to out-muscle rather than out-quick opponents. A lot of it derived from increased low post touches that Carlisle ran for him in Indiana vs early days in Chicago.

I wonder if we'll have to have a long wait for Smart to find his comfort level in NBA also.

Then again, maybe Smart is just too slow and limited to be a good scorer in the NBA.

Also -- Post ups for PGs are much rarer in today's league than 20 years ago. The rule changes defensively (zone defenses) make it very difficult to get your PG down the in the post with enough time and space to attack his defender (on large number opportunities, small number of opportunities is doable). So maybe Smart will be unable to get the type of opportunities in low post Artest was able to get at SF position due to Smart's position (PG).

[coco]

Smart is my favorite Celtic right now.  He is such a competitor.

As for KO, if he just stop making stupid fouls and stop thinking the game.  He is so much better when he just reacts. 

[Chris22]

Olynyk is not that good.

Smart is a defender.

[Csfan1984]

OP, TP for asking the question. Too often we are not asking enough questions on player development within a system. I do believe every good team has a system in place which limits each player. Given time the coach and players should tweak things. As others have said KO and Smart are young and new to the league and BS' system. Sure with more experience they will be given the green light for more aggressive basketball and coach will draw up more plays for both guys.

With that said let's talk current use/system for Smart. BS' system is not about ISO, that right there is difficult given Smart's strength is probably that. Spacing, screens/picks and moving without the ball are important. Spacing is shooting and Smart is developing his shot rather quickly considering his college game. Smart is big for a PG so screens/picks is working well. Movement without the ball needs to be improved but that is also about chemistry. The team has had a lot of moving parts.

On traditional pg play watching Thornton, Turner, Nelson(now gone) drive to the basket more seems to have improved AB, Smart and even Pressey to push deeper and more often last few games. Smart is also working more with pick and roll as we have recently seen in Bulls game. You can see improvement.

For a rookie PG he is doing well IMO
(Will write up ko stuff later)

[HomerSapien]

The Celtics are making Sully look better than he is


he has all the free will in the world , is getting minutes and not being punished at all for some of the worst defense in the league for the minutes he gets...CBS is not going to pull him , so this fat overweight is going to keep taking tons of three pointers and playing terrible defense, especially down the stretch when he is gassed

He should not be getting over 23-25 minutes a game on decent team

All your seeing is Ainge trying to build value and trade him.

I agree - I like the way that the C's are developing Sullinger's game.  Because he's short, the only way he becomes anything better than an also ran bench player is if he is able to play on the perimeter as well as being able to capitalize on his natural abilities and instincts to play down on the block.

The step that he still needs to take is he HAS TO get lighter so he can play quicker than he currently does.  He needs more mobility to play average defense, and allow him to be more explosive driving and rolling to the basket.  And that part is 100% on him, and how badly he wants to be a good NBA player instead of just an NBA player on a roster.