Rondo's return (& Ainge)

[MBunge]

I couldn't be happier to see Rondo house us tonight.

I cannot sufficiently verbalize how frustrated I am when I see junk like this.

Junk?

I'd call it "a frustrated fan that hated to see Rondo gone, for as little as we got back, or gone, period".

Not junk.

So if it was Anti-Rondo then you'd approve?

If he was a fan, he would have been angry last night because it demonstrated just how much Rondo was dogging it when he was in Boston.  And not just this year, but for several years before that.

How many more games would the Celtics have won over the last 3 or 4 years if Rondo played like that even 75% of the time?  If Rondo had played like that for the first 20 games of the year, would Ainge have traded him?  If he did, how much more could Ainge have gotten for him?

Being a Rondo fan or a Celtics fan isn't the same thing as being an Ainge hater.

Mike

It is amazing that Rondo was dogging it while here, yet he was leading the league in assists and was the top rebounding guard playing for a really bad team.

This is one of the things that is so frustrating about the Information Age.  It's so easy to find a sliver of data to support ANY opinion you want.

Mike

  It's not really a sliver of data.

The sliver of data is grabbing onto something like "Assists!" or "Rebounds!" and using that to deny something even people on the Celtic payroll, like Scal or Sean and Max, openly talk about.

Mike

[Chief]

I don't want to see Danny fired, but rebuilding sucks.

Do you wish Danny would have traded some assets and put some pieces around Rondo and Green or (although it sucks) do you think our current plan is the best long term move?

[BballTim]

I couldn't be happier to see Rondo house us tonight.

I cannot sufficiently verbalize how frustrated I am when I see junk like this.

Junk?

I'd call it "a frustrated fan that hated to see Rondo gone, for as little as we got back, or gone, period".

Not junk.

So if it was Anti-Rondo then you'd approve?

If he was a fan, he would have been angry last night because it demonstrated just how much Rondo was dogging it when he was in Boston.  And not just this year, but for several years before that.

How many more games would the Celtics have won over the last 3 or 4 years if Rondo played like that even 75% of the time?  If Rondo had played like that for the first 20 games of the year, would Ainge have traded him?  If he did, how much more could Ainge have gotten for him?

Being a Rondo fan or a Celtics fan isn't the same thing as being an Ainge hater.

Mike

It is amazing that Rondo was dogging it while here, yet he was leading the league in assists and was the top rebounding guard playing for a really bad team.

This is one of the things that is so frustrating about the Information Age.  It's so easy to find a sliver of data to support ANY opinion you want.

Mike

  It's not really a sliver of data.

The sliver of data is grabbing onto something like "Assists!" or "Rebounds!" and using that to deny something even people on the Celtic payroll, like Scal or Sean and Max, openly talk about.

Mike

  Or the sliver of data is the extremely selective parsing of their comments. If you're going to use the comments of those guys to back up your points you have to give equal weight to every bit of praise they heap upon Rondo (which is probably the large majority of their comments).

[TheFlex]

I couldn't be happier to see Rondo house us tonight.

I cannot sufficiently verbalize how frustrated I am when I see junk like this.

Junk?

I'd call it "a frustrated fan that hated to see Rondo gone, for as little as we got back, or gone, period".

Not junk.

So if it was Anti-Rondo then you'd approve?

If he was a fan, he would have been angry last night because it demonstrated just how much Rondo was dogging it when he was in Boston.  And not just this year, but for several years before that.

How many more games would the Celtics have won over the last 3 or 4 years if Rondo played like that even 75% of the time?  If Rondo had played like that for the first 20 games of the year, would Ainge have traded him?  If he did, how much more could Ainge have gotten for him?

Being a Rondo fan or a Celtics fan isn't the same thing as being an Ainge hater.

Mike

It is amazing that Rondo was dogging it while here, yet he was leading the league in assists and was the top rebounding guard playing for a really bad team.

This is one of the things that is so frustrating about the Information Age.  It's so easy to find a sliver of data to support ANY opinion you want.

Mike

  It's not really a sliver of data. Rondo's been one of the best rebounders at his position for years and has made multiple all defense teams. Those are normally the first (or among the first) things that people talk about when they're talking about effort from players. People's evaluation of Rondo is frequently different than the way they'd evaluate any other player in the league. That's why he can lead the league in assists, be one of the best rebounders at his position, make the all-star team, all defense team and all-nba team and *still* get criticized for dogging it during the regular season. I'd have a hard time coming up with other players who have seasons like that (and multiple seasons close to that) who are roundly criticized for coasting while they do it.

When's the last time Rondo made the AS team, All-Defensive squad or received All-NBA honors? I'd like to see Celtics fans' reactions if they saw a Mavs fan talk about Devin Harris the way Cs fans talk about Rondo.

edit: Rondo is obviously better than Harris, so let's not waste our time on that. He still is one of the best passers and rebounders at his position. But he is not the player you are describing in your post above anymore.

[Jonny CC]

I couldn't be happier to see Rondo house us tonight.

I cannot sufficiently verbalize how frustrated I am when I see junk like this.

Junk?

I'd call it "a frustrated fan that hated to see Rondo gone, for as little as we got back, or gone, period".

Not junk.

So if it was Anti-Rondo then you'd approve?

If he was a fan, he would have been angry last night because it demonstrated just how much Rondo was dogging it when he was in Boston.  And not just this year, but for several years before that.

How many more games would the Celtics have won over the last 3 or 4 years if Rondo played like that even 75% of the time?  If Rondo had played like that for the first 20 games of the year, would Ainge have traded him?  If he did, how much more could Ainge have gotten for him?

Being a Rondo fan or a Celtics fan isn't the same thing as being an Ainge hater.

Mike

It is amazing that Rondo was dogging it while here, yet he was leading the league in assists and was the top rebounding guard playing for a really bad team.

This is one of the things that is so frustrating about the Information Age.  It's so easy to find a sliver of data to support ANY opinion you want.

Mike

  It's not really a sliver of data. Rondo's been one of the best rebounders at his position for years and has made multiple all defense teams. Those are normally the first (or among the first) things that people talk about when they're talking about effort from players. People's evaluation of Rondo is frequently different than the way they'd evaluate any other player in the league. That's why he can lead the league in assists, be one of the best rebounders at his position, make the all-star team, all defense team and all-nba team and *still* get criticized for dogging it during the regular season. I'd have a hard time coming up with other players who have seasons like that (and multiple seasons close to that) who are roundly criticized for coasting while they do it.

When's the last time Rondo made the AS team, All-Defensive squad or received All-NBA honors? I'd like to see Celtics fans' reactions if they saw a Mavs fan talk about Devin Harris the way Cs fans talk about Rondo.

edit: Rondo is obviously better than Harris, so let's not waste our time on that. He still is one of the best passers and rebounders at his position. But he is not the player you are describing in your post above anymore.

Agreed.  I love when the Assists and Rebounds stats are thrown out there as prove that Rondo wasn't lazy.  He has always been a great passer and rebounder....probably the best passing PG I have ever seen.  And he used to be a very good defender.  USED TO BE.  Past tense.  I don't care how many honors he has received in the past, he is not the same player ...especially on defense.  I don't need stats to prove it...I have watched enough games to have all the evidence I need for my opinion. 

[jpotter33]

I couldn't be happier to see Rondo house us tonight.

I cannot sufficiently verbalize how frustrated I am when I see junk like this.

Junk?

I'd call it "a frustrated fan that hated to see Rondo gone, for as little as we got back, or gone, period".

Not junk.

So if it was Anti-Rondo then you'd approve?

No.

I'm wondering how you rationalized that conclusion. Stop generalizing those who don't drool over Rondo.

Yep. You can either love Rondo and defend him until your death, or you can hate everything he does. Apparently the slightest bit of Rondo criticism puts you into the latter camp.

[BballTim]

I couldn't be happier to see Rondo house us tonight.

I cannot sufficiently verbalize how frustrated I am when I see junk like this.

Junk?

I'd call it "a frustrated fan that hated to see Rondo gone, for as little as we got back, or gone, period".

Not junk.

So if it was Anti-Rondo then you'd approve?

If he was a fan, he would have been angry last night because it demonstrated just how much Rondo was dogging it when he was in Boston.  And not just this year, but for several years before that.

How many more games would the Celtics have won over the last 3 or 4 years if Rondo played like that even 75% of the time?  If Rondo had played like that for the first 20 games of the year, would Ainge have traded him?  If he did, how much more could Ainge have gotten for him?

Being a Rondo fan or a Celtics fan isn't the same thing as being an Ainge hater.

Mike

It is amazing that Rondo was dogging it while here, yet he was leading the league in assists and was the top rebounding guard playing for a really bad team.

This is one of the things that is so frustrating about the Information Age.  It's so easy to find a sliver of data to support ANY opinion you want.

Mike

  It's not really a sliver of data. Rondo's been one of the best rebounders at his position for years and has made multiple all defense teams. Those are normally the first (or among the first) things that people talk about when they're talking about effort from players. People's evaluation of Rondo is frequently different than the way they'd evaluate any other player in the league. That's why he can lead the league in assists, be one of the best rebounders at his position, make the all-star team, all defense team and all-nba team and *still* get criticized for dogging it during the regular season. I'd have a hard time coming up with other players who have seasons like that (and multiple seasons close to that) who are roundly criticized for coasting while they do it.

When's the last time Rondo made the AS team, All-Defensive squad or received All-NBA honors?

  His last healthy season?

[vinnie]

I couldn't be happier to see Rondo house us tonight.

I cannot sufficiently verbalize how frustrated I am when I see junk like this.

Junk?

I'd call it "a frustrated fan that hated to see Rondo gone, for as little as we got back, or gone, period".

Not junk.

So if it was Anti-Rondo then you'd approve?

If he was a fan, he would have been angry last night because it demonstrated just how much Rondo was dogging it when he was in Boston.  And not just this year, but for several years before that.

How many more games would the Celtics have won over the last 3 or 4 years if Rondo played like that even 75% of the time?  If Rondo had played like that for the first 20 games of the year, would Ainge have traded him?  If he did, how much more could Ainge have gotten for him?

Being a Rondo fan or a Celtics fan isn't the same thing as being an Ainge hater.

Mike

It is amazing that Rondo was dogging it while here, yet he was leading the league in assists and was the top rebounding guard playing for a really bad team.

This is one of the things that is so frustrating about the Information Age.  It's so easy to find a sliver of data to support ANY opinion you want.

Mike

  It's not really a sliver of data. Rondo's been one of the best rebounders at his position for years and has made multiple all defense teams. Those are normally the first (or among the first) things that people talk about when they're talking about effort from players. People's evaluation of Rondo is frequently different than the way they'd evaluate any other player in the league. That's why he can lead the league in assists, be one of the best rebounders at his position, make the all-star team, all defense team and all-nba team and *still* get criticized for dogging it during the regular season. I'd have a hard time coming up with other players who have seasons like that (and multiple seasons close to that) who are roundly criticized for coasting while they do it.

When's the last time Rondo made the AS team, All-Defensive squad or received All-NBA honors? I'd like to see Celtics fans' reactions if they saw a Mavs fan talk about Devin Harris the way Cs fans talk about Rondo.

edit: Rondo is obviously better than Harris, so let's not waste our time on that. He still is one of the best passers and rebounders at his position. But he is not the player you are describing in your post above anymore.

Let's see. rondo was selected to the all star team in 2013. His last all-defensive team selection was in 2011. In 2012, he was named to the All NBA second defensive team. In 2012, he was named to the All NBA third team. He is a 4-time all star. He led the league in assists in 2012 and 2013. Just a few more slivers.

[Jonny CC]

I couldn't be happier to see Rondo house us tonight.

I cannot sufficiently verbalize how frustrated I am when I see junk like this.

Junk?

I'd call it "a frustrated fan that hated to see Rondo gone, for as little as we got back, or gone, period".

Not junk.

So if it was Anti-Rondo then you'd approve?

No.

I'm wondering how you rationalized that conclusion. Stop generalizing those who don't drool over Rondo.

Yep. You can either love Rondo and defend him until your death, or you can hate everything he does. Apparently the slightest bit of Rondo criticism puts you into the latter camp.

Great point 

[Jonny CC]

I couldn't be happier to see Rondo house us tonight.

I cannot sufficiently verbalize how frustrated I am when I see junk like this.

Junk?

I'd call it "a frustrated fan that hated to see Rondo gone, for as little as we got back, or gone, period".

Not junk.

So if it was Anti-Rondo then you'd approve?

If he was a fan, he would have been angry last night because it demonstrated just how much Rondo was dogging it when he was in Boston.  And not just this year, but for several years before that.

How many more games would the Celtics have won over the last 3 or 4 years if Rondo played like that even 75% of the time?  If Rondo had played like that for the first 20 games of the year, would Ainge have traded him?  If he did, how much more could Ainge have gotten for him?

Being a Rondo fan or a Celtics fan isn't the same thing as being an Ainge hater.

Mike

It is amazing that Rondo was dogging it while here, yet he was leading the league in assists and was the top rebounding guard playing for a really bad team.

This is one of the things that is so frustrating about the Information Age.  It's so easy to find a sliver of data to support ANY opinion you want.

Mike

  It's not really a sliver of data. Rondo's been one of the best rebounders at his position for years and has made multiple all defense teams. Those are normally the first (or among the first) things that people talk about when they're talking about effort from players. People's evaluation of Rondo is frequently different than the way they'd evaluate any other player in the league. That's why he can lead the league in assists, be one of the best rebounders at his position, make the all-star team, all defense team and all-nba team and *still* get criticized for dogging it during the regular season. I'd have a hard time coming up with other players who have seasons like that (and multiple seasons close to that) who are roundly criticized for coasting while they do it.

When's the last time Rondo made the AS team, All-Defensive squad or received All-NBA honors? I'd like to see Celtics fans' reactions if they saw a Mavs fan talk about Devin Harris the way Cs fans talk about Rondo.

edit: Rondo is obviously better than Harris, so let's not waste our time on that. He still is one of the best passers and rebounders at his position. But he is not the player you are describing in your post above anymore.

Let's see. rondo was selected to the all star team in 2013. His last all-defensive team selection was in 2011. In 2012, he was named to the All NBA second defensive team. In 2012, he was named to the All NBA third team. He is a 4-time all star. He led the league in assists in 2012 and 2013. Just a few more slivers.

And all of that is irrelevant NOW.  I don't care how many defensive "slivers" he had in the past, he's not a good defensive player NOW. 

[jpotter33]

I couldn't be happier to see Rondo house us tonight.

I cannot sufficiently verbalize how frustrated I am when I see junk like this.

Junk?

I'd call it "a frustrated fan that hated to see Rondo gone, for as little as we got back, or gone, period".

Not junk.

So if it was Anti-Rondo then you'd approve?

If he was a fan, he would have been angry last night because it demonstrated just how much Rondo was dogging it when he was in Boston.  And not just this year, but for several years before that.

How many more games would the Celtics have won over the last 3 or 4 years if Rondo played like that even 75% of the time?  If Rondo had played like that for the first 20 games of the year, would Ainge have traded him?  If he did, how much more could Ainge have gotten for him?

Being a Rondo fan or a Celtics fan isn't the same thing as being an Ainge hater.

Mike

It is amazing that Rondo was dogging it while here, yet he was leading the league in assists and was the top rebounding guard playing for a really bad team.

This is one of the things that is so frustrating about the Information Age.  It's so easy to find a sliver of data to support ANY opinion you want.

Mike

  It's not really a sliver of data. Rondo's been one of the best rebounders at his position for years and has made multiple all defense teams. Those are normally the first (or among the first) things that people talk about when they're talking about effort from players. People's evaluation of Rondo is frequently different than the way they'd evaluate any other player in the league. That's why he can lead the league in assists, be one of the best rebounders at his position, make the all-star team, all defense team and all-nba team and *still* get criticized for dogging it during the regular season. I'd have a hard time coming up with other players who have seasons like that (and multiple seasons close to that) who are roundly criticized for coasting while they do it.

When's the last time Rondo made the AS team, All-Defensive squad or received All-NBA honors? I'd like to see Celtics fans' reactions if they saw a Mavs fan talk about Devin Harris the way Cs fans talk about Rondo.

edit: Rondo is obviously better than Harris, so let's not waste our time on that. He still is one of the best passers and rebounders at his position. But he is not the player you are describing in your post above anymore.

Let's see. rondo was selected to the all star team in 2013. His last all-defensive team selection was in 2011. In 2012, he was named to the All NBA second defensive team. In 2012, he was named to the All NBA third team. He is a 4-time all star. He led the league in assists in 2012 and 2013. Just a few more slivers.

And all of that is irrelevant NOW.  I don't care how many defensive "slivers" he had in the past, he's not a good defensive player NOW.

Well, he wasn't for the C's anyways. He's looking much better and more energetic now that he actually gives a crap.

[BballTim]

I couldn't be happier to see Rondo house us tonight.

I cannot sufficiently verbalize how frustrated I am when I see junk like this.

Junk?

I'd call it "a frustrated fan that hated to see Rondo gone, for as little as we got back, or gone, period".

Not junk.

So if it was Anti-Rondo then you'd approve?

No.

I'm wondering how you rationalized that conclusion. Stop generalizing those who don't drool over Rondo.

Yep. You can either love Rondo and defend him until your death, or you can hate everything he does. Apparently the slightest bit of Rondo criticism puts you into the latter camp.

  ..while the slightest disagreement with a criticism (no matter how ridiculous) puts you in the former camp. Welcome to the internet.

[Jonny CC]

I couldn't be happier to see Rondo house us tonight.

I cannot sufficiently verbalize how frustrated I am when I see junk like this.

Junk?

I'd call it "a frustrated fan that hated to see Rondo gone, for as little as we got back, or gone, period".

Not junk.

So if it was Anti-Rondo then you'd approve?

If he was a fan, he would have been angry last night because it demonstrated just how much Rondo was dogging it when he was in Boston.  And not just this year, but for several years before that.

How many more games would the Celtics have won over the last 3 or 4 years if Rondo played like that even 75% of the time?  If Rondo had played like that for the first 20 games of the year, would Ainge have traded him?  If he did, how much more could Ainge have gotten for him?

Being a Rondo fan or a Celtics fan isn't the same thing as being an Ainge hater.

Mike

It is amazing that Rondo was dogging it while here, yet he was leading the league in assists and was the top rebounding guard playing for a really bad team.

This is one of the things that is so frustrating about the Information Age.  It's so easy to find a sliver of data to support ANY opinion you want.

Mike

  It's not really a sliver of data. Rondo's been one of the best rebounders at his position for years and has made multiple all defense teams. Those are normally the first (or among the first) things that people talk about when they're talking about effort from players. People's evaluation of Rondo is frequently different than the way they'd evaluate any other player in the league. That's why he can lead the league in assists, be one of the best rebounders at his position, make the all-star team, all defense team and all-nba team and *still* get criticized for dogging it during the regular season. I'd have a hard time coming up with other players who have seasons like that (and multiple seasons close to that) who are roundly criticized for coasting while they do it.

When's the last time Rondo made the AS team, All-Defensive squad or received All-NBA honors? I'd like to see Celtics fans' reactions if they saw a Mavs fan talk about Devin Harris the way Cs fans talk about Rondo.

edit: Rondo is obviously better than Harris, so let's not waste our time on that. He still is one of the best passers and rebounders at his position. But he is not the player you are describing in your post above anymore.

Let's see. rondo was selected to the all star team in 2013. His last all-defensive team selection was in 2011. In 2012, he was named to the All NBA second defensive team. In 2012, he was named to the All NBA third team. He is a 4-time all star. He led the league in assists in 2012 and 2013. Just a few more slivers.

And all of that is irrelevant NOW.  I don't care how many defensive "slivers" he had in the past, he's not a good defensive player NOW.

Well, he wasn't for the C's anyways. He's looking much better and more energetic now that he actually gives a crap.

We will see how long that lasts. 

[Eja117]

I couldn't be happier to see Rondo house us tonight.

I cannot sufficiently verbalize how frustrated I am when I see junk like this.

Junk?

I'd call it "a frustrated fan that hated to see Rondo gone, for as little as we got back, or gone, period".

Not junk.

So if it was Anti-Rondo then you'd approve?

If he was a fan, he would have been angry last night because it demonstrated just how much Rondo was dogging it when he was in Boston.  And not just this year, but for several years before that.

How many more games would the Celtics have won over the last 3 or 4 years if Rondo played like that even 75% of the time?  If Rondo had played like that for the first 20 games of the year, would Ainge have traded him?  If he did, how much more could Ainge have gotten for him?

Being a Rondo fan or a Celtics fan isn't the same thing as being an Ainge hater.

Mike

It is amazing that Rondo was dogging it while here, yet he was leading the league in assists and was the top rebounding guard playing for a really bad team.

This is one of the things that is so frustrating about the Information Age.  It's so easy to find a sliver of data to support ANY opinion you want.

Mike

  It's not really a sliver of data. Rondo's been one of the best rebounders at his position for years and has made multiple all defense teams. Those are normally the first (or among the first) things that people talk about when they're talking about effort from players. People's evaluation of Rondo is frequently different than the way they'd evaluate any other player in the league. That's why he can lead the league in assists, be one of the best rebounders at his position, make the all-star team, all defense team and all-nba team and *still* get criticized for dogging it during the regular season. I'd have a hard time coming up with other players who have seasons like that (and multiple seasons close to that) who are roundly criticized for coasting while they do it.

When's the last time Rondo made the AS team, All-Defensive squad or received All-NBA honors? I'd like to see Celtics fans' reactions if they saw a Mavs fan talk about Devin Harris the way Cs fans talk about Rondo.

edit: Rondo is obviously better than Harris, so let's not waste our time on that. He still is one of the best passers and rebounders at his position. But he is not the player you are describing in your post above anymore.

Let's see. rondo was selected to the all star team in 2013. His last all-defensive team selection was in 2011. In 2012, he was named to the All NBA second defensive team. In 2012, he was named to the All NBA third team. He is a 4-time all star. He led the league in assists in 2012 and 2013. Just a few more slivers.

And all of that is irrelevant NOW.  I don't care how many defensive "slivers" he had in the past, he's not a good defensive player NOW.

Marcus Smart isn't a very good player now either. Pierce, Ray, and KG weren't the greatest players on Earth till you put the three of them together and Rondo got a lot better all of a sudden once they joined the team, kinda like how he has suddenly gotten a lot better on the Mavs and the Celts have suddenly gotten a lot worse without him

[TheFlex]

I couldn't be happier to see Rondo house us tonight.

I cannot sufficiently verbalize how frustrated I am when I see junk like this.

Junk?

I'd call it "a frustrated fan that hated to see Rondo gone, for as little as we got back, or gone, period".

Not junk.

So if it was Anti-Rondo then you'd approve?

If he was a fan, he would have been angry last night because it demonstrated just how much Rondo was dogging it when he was in Boston.  And not just this year, but for several years before that.

How many more games would the Celtics have won over the last 3 or 4 years if Rondo played like that even 75% of the time?  If Rondo had played like that for the first 20 games of the year, would Ainge have traded him?  If he did, how much more could Ainge have gotten for him?

Being a Rondo fan or a Celtics fan isn't the same thing as being an Ainge hater.

Mike

It is amazing that Rondo was dogging it while here, yet he was leading the league in assists and was the top rebounding guard playing for a really bad team.

This is one of the things that is so frustrating about the Information Age.  It's so easy to find a sliver of data to support ANY opinion you want.

Mike

  It's not really a sliver of data. Rondo's been one of the best rebounders at his position for years and has made multiple all defense teams. Those are normally the first (or among the first) things that people talk about when they're talking about effort from players. People's evaluation of Rondo is frequently different than the way they'd evaluate any other player in the league. That's why he can lead the league in assists, be one of the best rebounders at his position, make the all-star team, all defense team and all-nba team and *still* get criticized for dogging it during the regular season. I'd have a hard time coming up with other players who have seasons like that (and multiple seasons close to that) who are roundly criticized for coasting while they do it.

When's the last time Rondo made the AS team, All-Defensive squad or received All-NBA honors?

  His last healthy season?

You can say that about Rose too, and still posters here frequently rank Rose outside of the top 5 PGs despite having won the 2012-13 MVP because of his health. I've never seen you come to Rose's defense when he is called the 7th, 8th, 9th best PG in the league.

Rondo critics' quickness in ignoring his past achievements is only equaled by his fans' insistence on confusing such past achievements with current performance.