Rajon Rondo shows Boston

[Eja117]

If he played like that every night we wouldn't have.

But we would have had arguments about whether he was worth a max contract.

Maybe give him actual NBA players for teammates and he would have.

Please let us know what an "actual NBA player" is.

One that could conceivably on some level maybe help his team win a ring.  Preferably as a starter, not a 12th man

[Eja117]

If Rondo were in the Celtics trainers room he would be showing you Marcus Smart icing his butt.

With all due respect...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/puerile

Yep, that term can be used to describe the other side, too - the Rondo haters, dislikers, whatever.

Eja is trying to make light of this thing by adding humor...nothing wrong with that. He's posted that way for a while now and TBH it's quite entertaining.

We need some levity here, right? This is going to be a divisive thing for the blog for a long time.

Really?  Somehow, I don't think that he is like one of those Shakespearean characters added into the mix for comic effect.  I certainly don't believe he's up to the standard of the Greek Chorus in those lovely Greek tragedies that Sophocles and others included.  But hey, maybe he's operating on such a lofty mental level that I simply cannot perceive that his vantage point is so far above mine. 

Or maybe not.

Mercutio I'm not? You hath cut me to the quick. Tis not so deep as a well, nor so wide as a sea, but tis enough. Ask for Marcus Smart's career tomorrow and you shall find him a grave man. Worms meat Rondo made of him. A curse on thine house. A curse.

[GreenFaith1819]

If Rondo were in the Celtics trainers room he would be showing you Marcus Smart icing his butt.

With all due respect...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/puerile

Yep, that term can be used to describe the other side, too - the Rondo haters, dislikers, whatever.

Eja is trying to make light of this thing by adding humor...nothing wrong with that. He's posted that way for a while now and TBH it's quite entertaining.

We need some levity here, right? This is going to be a divisive thing for the blog for a long time.

Really?  Somehow, I don't think that he is like one of those Shakespearean characters added into the mix for comic effect.  I certainly don't believe he's up to the standard of the Greek Chorus in those lovely Greek tragedies that Sophocles and others included.  But hey, maybe he's operating on such a lofty mental level that I simply cannot perceive that his vantage point is so far above mine. 

Or maybe not.

Mercutio I'm not? You hath cut me to the quick. Tis not so deep as a well, nor so wide as a sea, but tis enough. Ask for me Marcus Smart's career tomorrow and you shall find him a grave man. Worms meat Rondo made of him. A curse on thine house. A curse.

This is brilliant

[Eja117]

If Rondo were in the Celtics trainers room he would be showing you Marcus Smart icing his butt.

With all due respect...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/puerile

Yep, that term can be used to describe the other side, too - the Rondo haters, dislikers, whatever.

Eja is trying to make light of this thing by adding humor...nothing wrong with that. He's posted that way for a while now and TBH it's quite entertaining.

We need some levity here, right? This is going to be a divisive thing for the blog for a long time.

Really?  Somehow, I don't think that he is like one of those Shakespearean characters added into the mix for comic effect.  I certainly don't believe he's up to the standard of the Greek Chorus in those lovely Greek tragedies that Sophocles and others included.  But hey, maybe he's operating on such a lofty mental level that I simply cannot perceive that his vantage point is so far above mine. 

Or maybe not.

Mercutio I'm not? You hath cut me to the quick. Tis not so deep as a well, nor so wide as a sea, but tis enough. Ask for me Marcus Smart's career tomorrow and you shall find him a grave man. Worms meat Rondo made of him. A curse on thine house. A curse.

This is brilliant

I'm beginning to wonder if I should just post this way all the time now.

Rondo doth teach the torches to burn bright. Will thine heart ever love again? For never has a tragedy for the Celtics been so than to this our Ainge and his Rajon Rondo.

[BballTim]

2nd - a lot of people have a pretty short memory about how much 'heart' Rondo showed over his career with the C's.  Just check out the video tribute if you need a refresher.  It seems like literally thousands of fans at the game tonight didn't feel like they got kicked in the balls by Rondo.  I know I didn't.

I get it. "Heart" is something that you show only when you feel like it. Like when your team is good. Otherwise, it's ok to loaf around and pad some stats.

  Padding stats generally means a player that you don't like is putting up numbers that don't really fit your narrative.

Never heard this definition before.  Congrats on inventing something truly new and unique.

  Sigh. Sorry. For the people who need to have everything spelled out for them, I was talking about what it generally means when people claim a player's padding his stats, not what the term "padding stats" actually means.

[PAOBoston]

Rondo showed Boston that.... He basically dogged it the past 2 years and didn't put in his best effort. If he brought that intensity every night,  he'd still be here. But he didn't. He was coasting through the season waiting to leave.

[Eja117]

Rondo showed Boston that.... He basically dogged it the past 2 years and didn't put in his best effort. If he brought that intensity every night,  he'd still be here. But he didn't. He was coasting through the season waiting to leave.

Honestly I didn't think he looked all that intense. Maybe more aggressive, but one thing I always sorta loved about Rondo is that he can make the game look very easy. He seemed to do a lot of the same things as always, which was look for open guys and look for open shots. Typically I think he tended to play within himself more and not take shots at the edge of his ability, but last night with nothing to lose and everything to prove he took more shots and they went. It might happen more too, because instead of defenses trying to just stop him I would imagine defenses will game plan more for Nowitzki. That will open things up more for Rondo and you may see an increase in his stats. Doesn't exactly mean he was dogging it or anything.

Career highs and very good games aren't proof a guy dogs it in every other game. At worst the difference between Rondo as a dogger and every other Celtic as a dogger is that Rondo could still produce. Just means other guys dog worse or that they don't dog at all and still can't produce.

[BballTim]

I do think Rondo "padded stats" to a degree.  Those wide open shots he would pass up to thread a pass to someone were not intended to make the other player better or help the team win.  They were because missing shots was in his head and he preferred from a personal perspective to get an assist added to his stats over a missed shot.

  This is basically all in your head though. You don't have any real idea whether it's true or not, and you have to ignore the much more likely explanation (Rondo knows enough about basketball to realize that a made basket (even one that comes from a pass) helps the team more than a missed shot does). It's fairly interesting the number of contrived reasons you see here that are meant to put Rondo in a bad light for doing what anyone would tell you is the correct basketball play. The number of people that buy into that nonsense because they read it on the internet is probably more interesting though.

[Vermont Green]

I do think Rondo "padded stats" to a degree.  Those wide open shots he would pass up to thread a pass to someone were not intended to make the other player better or help the team win.  They were because missing shots was in his head and he preferred from a personal perspective to get an assist added to his stats over a missed shot.

  This is basically all in your head though. You don't have any real idea whether it's true or not, and you have to ignore the much more likely explanation (Rondo knows enough about basketball to realize that a made basket (even one that comes from a pass) helps the team more than a missed shot does). It's fairly interesting the number of contrived reasons you see here that are meant to put Rondo in a bad light for doing what anyone would tell you is the correct basketball play. The number of people that buy into that nonsense because they read it on the internet is probably more interesting though.

BballTim is correct, I don't "know" what Rondo is thinking but it is my opinion and what is in my head is there based on what I see on the court.  Clearly BballTim does not give much credence to my observations but I can get over that.

Sometimes you make a pass that is not necessary to reward a big man for running.  Sometimes it could make sense to get a player going out of a slump by giving him an easy basket even though you had a layup yourself.  So there are times when passing for the sake of passing can be strategic.

In Rondo's case, there were times (and a lot this season) where it seemed to me that he was passing just to get an assist or to avoid shooting himself.  Passing up a really good shot, wide open usually, for what was not necessarily a better shot.  At times it seemed he did this because he was afraid to shoot, other times it seemed like he was doing it to "pad" his assists.  (Along the way, Rondo made plenty of really good passes too of course).

He does not seem to be doing the unnecessary passing so far in Dallas and certainly didn't do it last night (although I did not see the whole game).  His new team's results are better for it as would have the Celtic's results have.

[ssspence]

Showed Boston what -- that he's immature? If you didn't know that already, you've had your head in the sand. Other than that, I can't imagine anyone surprised that Rondo can still score 20something against a bad team when he's actually engaged.

Gotcha.

So you're actually admitting with the bolded that Rondo didn't have a good team around him, here, right?

Whose fault is that? Not Rondo....

So why are we bad-mouthing him, now LOL?

Uh, yeah, the Cs aren't good right now. This is news?

And that gives the guy an excuse to coast thru his job? He was the highest paid player on the team, and the captain.  Rondo lacks the maturity to lead. He's pals with Melo, Josh Smith and Rudy Gay. He struggles with folks like Ray Allen, Doc Rivers and Tubby Smith. He's not a mature guy.

So why do I want his as the captain of my team? Because you think the Celtics owed him something better than the fairly amazing career path he had in Boston? He plays the deepest position in the league. I for one have the patience to see the Cs built correctly than to pretend Rondo cares purely about winning. 

[wiley]

Rondo showed Boston that.... He basically dogged it the past 2 years and didn't put in his best effort. If he brought that intensity every night,  he'd still be here. But he didn't. He was coasting through the season waiting to leave.

Honestly I didn't think he looked all that intense. Maybe more aggressive, but one thing I always sorta loved about Rondo is that he can make the game look very easy. He seemed to do a lot of the same things as always, which was look for open guys and look for open shots. Typically I think he tended to play within himself more and not take shots at the edge of his ability, but last night with nothing to lose and everything to prove he took more shots and they went. It might happen more too, because instead of defenses trying to just stop him I would imagine defenses will game plan more for Nowitzki. That will open things up more for Rondo and you may see an increase in his stats. Doesn't exactly mean he was dogging it or anything.

Career highs and very good games aren't proof a guy dogs it in every other game. At worst the difference between Rondo as a dogger and every other Celtic as a dogger is that Rondo could still produce. Just means other guys dog worse or that they don't dog at all and still can't produce.

TP for all your excellent points in this thread Eja.  The only thing I disagree with is that I think Smart will be good, maybe not at PG full time, but a really good Celtic.

I'm glad Rondo is now playing where people will give him the respect he deserves for being a warrior (playing through dislocated elbow, etc..).  One thing I can't stand about this thread is that once a player has earned respect (with amazing play, effort and bodily courage when it matters most), why dump on him in the low times? 

Just keep your respect people there's no reason to be so easily rattled!

edit:  and I would add that Rondo has no choice in his new environs but to play almost like it's the playoffs.  If he were still on the Celtics I WOULD NOT WANT him to play that way.  If he were with the Celtics I'd want him to return to his former self very gradually...

[PAOBoston]

Rondo showed Boston that.... He basically dogged it the past 2 years and didn't put in his best effort. If he brought that intensity every night,  he'd still be here. But he didn't. He was coasting through the season waiting to leave.

Honestly I didn't think he looked all that intense. Maybe more aggressive, but one thing I always sorta loved about Rondo is that he can make the game look very easy. He seemed to do a lot of the same things as always, which was look for open guys and look for open shots. Typically I think he tended to play within himself more and not take shots at the edge of his ability, but last night with nothing to lose and everything to prove he took more shots and they went. It might happen more too, because instead of defenses trying to just stop him I would imagine defenses will game plan more for Nowitzki. That will open things up more for Rondo and you may see an increase in his stats. Doesn't exactly mean he was dogging it or anything.

Career highs and very good games aren't proof a guy dogs it in every other game. At worst the difference between Rondo as a dogger and every other Celtic as a dogger is that Rondo could still produce. Just means other guys dog worse or that they don't dog at all and still can't produce.

TP for all your excellent points in this thread Eja.  The only thing I disagree with is that I think Smart will be good, maybe not at PG full time, but a really good Celtic.

I'm glad Rondo is now playing where people will give him the respect he deserves for being a warrior (playing through dislocated elbow, etc..).  One thing I can't stand about this thread is that once a player has earned respect (with amazing play, effort and bodily courage when it matters most), why dump on him in the low times? 

Just keep your respect people there's no reason to be so easily rattled!

I think everyone appreciated Rondo for playing through injuries, etc. and certainly for his contributions to winning a championship and almost helping bring another. But it doesn't excuse the fact that he has been sub par for the last 2 years here. That's why people are upset with him. The aggressiveness he showed last night was lacking with him here in Boston for a long time. He took 19 shots last night. He attacked the rim. He actually made 3's. He did none of that in the past 1.5 years here. If he did, my guess is he'd still be here and would actually be deserving of a pay raise.

[BballTim]

I do think Rondo "padded stats" to a degree.  Those wide open shots he would pass up to thread a pass to someone were not intended to make the other player better or help the team win.  They were because missing shots was in his head and he preferred from a personal perspective to get an assist added to his stats over a missed shot.

  This is basically all in your head though. You don't have any real idea whether it's true or not, and you have to ignore the much more likely explanation (Rondo knows enough about basketball to realize that a made basket (even one that comes from a pass) helps the team more than a missed shot does). It's fairly interesting the number of contrived reasons you see here that are meant to put Rondo in a bad light for doing what anyone would tell you is the correct basketball play. The number of people that buy into that nonsense because they read it on the internet is probably more interesting though.

BballTim is correct, I don't "know" what Rondo is thinking but it is my opinion and what is in my head is there based on what I see on the court.  Clearly BballTim does not give much credence to my observations but I can get over that.

Sometimes you make a pass that is not necessary to reward a big man for running.  Sometimes it could make sense to get a player going out of a slump by giving him an easy basket even though you had a layup yourself.  So there are times when passing for the sake of passing can be strategic.

In Rondo's case, there were times (and a lot this season) where it seemed to me that he was passing just to get an assist or to avoid shooting himself.  Passing up a really good shot, wide open usually, for what was not necessarily a better shot.  At times it seemed he did this because he was afraid to shoot, other times it seemed like he was doing it to "pad" his assists.  (Along the way, Rondo made plenty of really good passes too of course).

He does not seem to be doing the unnecessary passing so far in Dallas and certainly didn't do it last night (although I did not see the whole game).  His new team's results are better for it as would have the Celtic's results have.

  Aside from FT shooting, your two main criticisms of Rondo seem to be that he's not a great shooter and that he passes up too many shots in order to get assists. These two complaints are clearly at odds with each other.

  The team scored at a higher rate off of passes from Rondo than the off of shots from Rondo. That's fairly undeniable. If we have a choice between Rondo taking a fairly open jump shot or someone else taking a fairly open shot we're probably better off with the other shooter. That's the basis for your criticisms of Rondo's shooting, and other teams not respecting Rondo's jumper.

  Yet at the same time you want to criticize Rondo for passing up those shots and creating better scoring chances with his passing. That doesn't make a lot of basketball sense. You seem to reconcile this by assigning ulterior motives to Rondo's actions. Like it's somehow a coincidence that Rondo's "selfish stat padding" results in a better scoring opportunity. While you're right that the pass doesn't always lead to a better shot, you also have to consider the possibility that he's miss the open shot that he passed up. Based on everything you've ever said about his shooting, you probably think that miss is a pretty likely outcome.

[wiley]

Rondo showed Boston that.... He basically dogged it the past 2 years and didn't put in his best effort. If he brought that intensity every night,  he'd still be here. But he didn't. He was coasting through the season waiting to leave.

Honestly I didn't think he looked all that intense. Maybe more aggressive, but one thing I always sorta loved about Rondo is that he can make the game look very easy. He seemed to do a lot of the same things as always, which was look for open guys and look for open shots. Typically I think he tended to play within himself more and not take shots at the edge of his ability, but last night with nothing to lose and everything to prove he took more shots and they went. It might happen more too, because instead of defenses trying to just stop him I would imagine defenses will game plan more for Nowitzki. That will open things up more for Rondo and you may see an increase in his stats. Doesn't exactly mean he was dogging it or anything.

Career highs and very good games aren't proof a guy dogs it in every other game. At worst the difference between Rondo as a dogger and every other Celtic as a dogger is that Rondo could still produce. Just means other guys dog worse or that they don't dog at all and still can't produce.

TP for all your excellent points in this thread Eja.  The only thing I disagree with is that I think Smart will be good, maybe not at PG full time, but a really good Celtic.

I'm glad Rondo is now playing where people will give him the respect he deserves for being a warrior (playing through dislocated elbow, etc..).  One thing I can't stand about this thread is that once a player has earned respect (with amazing play, effort and bodily courage when it matters most), why dump on him in the low times? 

Just keep your respect people there's no reason to be so easily rattled!

I think everyone appreciated Rondo for playing through injuries, etc. and certainly for his contributions to winning a championship and almost helping bring another. But it doesn't excuse the fact that he has been sub par for the last 2 years here. That's why people are upset with him. The aggressiveness he showed last night was lacking with him here in Boston for a long time. He took 19 shots last night. He attacked the rim. He actually made 3's. He did none of that in the past 1.5 years here. If he did, my guess is he'd still be here and would actually be deserving of a pay raise.

He's barely played though in those two years.  If he can keep up his current output without any more knee trouble it'll be a major feel good story if you're a Rondo fan.  Basketball and knees are at odds with each other and Rondo has a ton of mileage on a slight frame.  Fingers crossed he comes back as well as Tony Allen finally did...

[Celtics18]

Playoff rondo was in the td garden tonight.

Exactly. The one that matters.

Not for a Celtics team that had ZERO chance of making the playoffs this season, with or without Rondo.  Rondo is now on a better team, maybe a legitimate contender.  Maybe you might consider chilling out a bit and simply enjoying the Rondo show in Dallas.

You are aware that he's gone and is not coming back, are you not?

The team was in the eighth spot in the East when Rondo got traded.  Zero seems like a tad bit of a low estimate.