Lack of Reaction From Teammates to Smart Getting Tossed is Disappointing

[KingofDaPlayazBall]

Funny how we label Cousins an ****, then want other guys to step in and play macho when the play is over. Sure, lets thug it up and puff our chests for no other reason than to a make a "statement".  Smart got up and made his point. No one is going to keep doing that because we are soft...thats just ridiculous.

Playing tough is bumping people off screens, boxing out hard, taking charges and battling for loose balls and 50-50 balls.

The rest is the  fake toughness, stares, chest thumping, trash talking bull**** that looks like you are making up for a lack of ACTUAL toughness.

This comment should have been end of thread. What a nonsense that everyone else didn't run in and get themselves into trouble.

Save the toughness for where it counts.

geez louise guys, the testosterone level here is really rather silly. this virtual chest bumping stuff isnt getting anyone anywhere worth being. let's wrap this thread on up.

If you are so allergic to the toughness talk, then why even come on celticsblog.  You believe toughness talk has no place in basketball discussions?

And who care if they "get in trouble", they are not little kids, take a tech or even get suspended its worth doing what you have to do.  Its for building team identity, not even for reputation, but for eachother as teammates.

[bostonsportsforlife]

Smart was drafted for the very reason of developing a team mentality that incorporates toughness. I would say that he may be our most likely enforcer at the moment. There are many ways this is done on the court and the most effective way is within the rules. Not trash talk but instead going hard through screens and dropping an elbow or boxing out low. You can enforce by getting into the heads of your opposition and inspiring your team to play with similar desire and toughness. In this fashion other teams may hate you but they will be nervous before tipoff.

Larry was tough but he also inspired toughness. Love the story where he got Kevin to go along with the idea he wanted to kick Elvin Hayes's a@#. Larry said in an interview with David Letterman I think that you always had to maintain the act and you could never let it slip. If an apponent ever saw you weak for just one second that you would never be able to get it back. He always had his game face on and it was war. To always show up is toughness in its highest form.

I agree with you mostly, but I'm pretty sure Smart wasn't primarily drafted on his mentality, though he is a fierce competitor

[hwangjini_1]

Funny how we label Cousins an ****, then want other guys to step in and play macho when the play is over. Sure, lets thug it up and puff our chests for no other reason than to a make a "statement".  Smart got up and made his point. No one is going to keep doing that because we are soft...thats just ridiculous.

Playing tough is bumping people off screens, boxing out hard, taking charges and battling for loose balls and 50-50 balls.

The rest is the  fake toughness, stares, chest thumping, trash talking bull**** that looks like you are making up for a lack of ACTUAL toughness.

This comment should have been end of thread. What a nonsense that everyone else didn't run in and get themselves into trouble.

Save the toughness for where it counts.

geez louise guys, the testosterone level here is really rather silly. this virtual chest bumping stuff isnt getting anyone anywhere worth being. let's wrap this thread on up.

If you are so allergic to the toughness talk, than why even come on celticsblog.  You believe toughness talk has no place in basketball discussions?

ha, ha... nice joke.  i mention how silly all this tough talk is on line, and now i am supposed to be intimidated by tough talk on line? good one. now please put the testosterone on hold and use your mind to think about about this conversation.  am i supposed to be diminished or intimidated by accusations of being non-tough? 

you just threatened and diminished a fellow poster and told the poster to remove himself from the thread because they dont share in its assumptions. this stifles discussion and limits perspectives. this is not the stuff that good blogs are made of. lets' invite and welcome differing opinions that are reasoned and sincere.

[AngryAndIrritable]

Funny how we label Cousins an ****, then want other guys to step in and play macho when the play is over. Sure, lets thug it up and puff our chests for no other reason than to a make a "statement".  Smart got up and made his point. No one is going to keep doing that because we are soft...thats just ridiculous.

Playing tough is bumping people off screens, boxing out hard, taking charges and battling for loose balls and 50-50 balls.

The rest is the  fake toughness, stares, chest thumping, trash talking bull**** that looks like you are making up for a lack of ACTUAL toughness.

This comment should have been end of thread. What a nonsense that everyone else didn't run in and get themselves into trouble.

Save the toughness for where it counts.

geez louise guys, the testosterone level here is really rather silly. this virtual chest bumping stuff isnt getting anyone anywhere worth being. let's wrap this thread on up.

If you are so allergic to the toughness talk, then why even come on celticsblog.  You believe toughness talk has no place in basketball discussions?

And who care if they "get in trouble", they are not little kids, take a tech or even get suspended its worth doing what you have to do.  Its for building team identity, not even for reputation, but for eachother as teammates.

This is where we are going to have to agree to disagree. If I am paying pro athletes millions of dollars I am going to want them to do the dirty work for each other - as detailed above - the stuff that doesn't show up in the box scores. Not 6th grade pushing and shoving after the play is over.

[greg683x]

Should of puffed out our chests and thrown some hand bags.  Internet forum tough guys.

The reality of sports competition is sometimes physical and aggressive. Just like the streets where some of these players grew up on. These guys are playing for big money...its serious stuff. Sorry thats just the way it is. 

If you don't think, with all the contact that is going on under the basket, like guy's leaning and pushing and talking crap in the paint, that there isn't bulling and intimidation going on. Come on.
Thats why the Celtics employed a Leon Powe type. When Leon came into the game, the bullies knew he wouldn't back down. Everything just just turned professional.

Not trying to be an internet forum tough guy, just realistic.
 

Was there an awed hush when Leon came into the game as well?

[Asher77]

Smart has more going for him than just toughness but I have read enough to know Danny does extensive research into personality types.

There are plenty of players and people who have the required personality to be natural leaders but they do not have the skill set talent wise to play a starting roll on a championship team while leading by example. Guys like that are very rare.

I am not saying Smart will prove to be this, he could be a bust but I do think Danny is doing everything he can when in the lottery to find a player who has even a small chance to prove worthy.

Toughness, desire, ect.. are mandatory when drafting a franchise type player. He will be an extension of your vision on the court.

[Asher77]

I was not saying that the Celtics are all losers or that the NBA is all losers. To make it to the NBA means you are a winner as compared to the thousands who you beat out.

I am saying that each player has a personality mix that drives them and that the greatest of them will push themselves to a level above the rest. It does not matter what this deep seeded passion is that allows them to work harder and focus a tad bit deeper than there peers. A father that drives you like Pistol Pete, or Tiger Woods, or maybe a rough child hood and a brother who was seen as destined for the NBA but died before his time. It could be anything.

The biggest winners have some sort of chip that they have developed and they use it. Get 8 guys with a chip larger than most and find them an actual leader who they all rally around. Easier to get 8 guys but harder to find a natural unquestioned leader for that group of egos.

Look at the 80 Celtics, they all said Larry was the leader without question, they wanted him to lead and we had egos like McHale, DJ, Walton, Maxwell, Pistol, Ainge. Without Bird it may have all fell apart like the Indiana Pacers of today.

Bird is now collecting winners with egos and they are playing well but a true leader has elluded them thus they have fallen a bit below the top.

Turner I think is a talented winner with a large ego who has never yet played with a guy he was winning to follow till the end. Until Turner plays on a team with a guy he looks up to as the alpha he will not reach his potential.

[Jonny CC]

Funny how we label Cousins an ****, then want other guys to step in and play macho when the play is over. Sure, lets thug it up and puff our chests for no other reason than to a make a "statement".  Smart got up and made his point. No one is going to keep doing that because we are soft...thats just ridiculous.

Playing tough is bumping people off screens, boxing out hard, taking charges and battling for loose balls and 50-50 balls.

The rest is the  fake toughness, stares, chest thumping, trash talking bull**** that looks like you are making up for a lack of ACTUAL toughness.

This comment should have been end of thread. What a nonsense that everyone else didn't run in and get themselves into trouble.

Save the toughness for where it counts.

geez louise guys, the testosterone level here is really rather silly. this virtual chest bumping stuff isnt getting anyone anywhere worth being. let's wrap this thread on up.

If you are so allergic to the toughness talk, than why even come on celticsblog.  You believe toughness talk has no place in basketball discussions?

ha, ha... nice joke.  i mention how silly all this tough talk is on line, and now i am supposed to be intimidated by tough talk on line? good one. now please put the testosterone on hold and use your mind to think about about this conversation.  am i supposed to be diminished or intimidated by accusations of being non-tough? 

you just threatened and diminished a fellow poster and told the poster to remove himself from the thread because they dont share in its assumptions. this stifles discussion and limits perspectives. this is not the stuff that good blogs are made of. lets' invite and welcome differing opinions that are reasoned and sincere.

Sorry but you are overreacting to this entire thread.  To say that someone "threatened and diminished a fellow poster" is a complete exaggeration. 

[tstorey_97]

When the Celtics drafted Smart Grousbek said the team liked him because he was "an instigator." Those were his exact words.

Smart started that sh*& up. Watch the game again. It was not about the push by Cousins (the biggest dork in the league) it was about the whole game.

This team is not a team. It's a bunch of guys waiting for a new job or two or three more new team mates. Go ahead and ask them to act like a team, it just a mash of about four teams now.

The only true leader on that team right now? Squared with that Cousins idiot and was ready to go. The Celtics have their sheriff...now they just need a team to play with him.

 

[Jonny CC]

there is no UBUNTU on this squad. Yes I called it a squad because we do not have a team we have a bunch of assets that are expendable. Ubuntu is based on team, not expendable assets. Remember when the big three when to meet with Thomas to get him to sign with at the deadline. We do not have that on this squad.

Every team has players that can be traded at any moment.  The fact that Ainge has made some trades is so overplayed. 
And UBUNTU means nothing if the team doesn't have talent.

But not every team is throwing a fire sale party. We have made it clear to all that study the game that the team we have is not the one we want. When you trade away your CAPTAIN for assets you tell the rest of the team that they can be traded. When you bench better players so you can showcase younger assets for trades, then don't expect those better players to go to war for you.

The fire sale party should be irrelevant.  They are professional athletes who have been part of many teams over the course of their playing career from a young kid to an adult.  Being a good teammate, playing with heart, "going to war", etc, etc, should be part of their core.  It shouldn't change based on trades, contract situations, whatever.  You are either a a strong team player with a good work ethic and character or you are not.   

[D.o.s.]

I was not saying that the Celtics are all losers or that the NBA is all losers. To make it to the NBA means you are a winner as compared to the thousands who you beat out.

I am saying that each player has a personality mix that drives them and that the greatest of them will push themselves to a level above the rest. It does not matter what this deep seeded passion is that allows them to work harder and focus a tad bit deeper than there peers. A father that drives you like Pistol Pete, or Tiger Woods, or maybe a rough child hood and a brother who was seen as destined for the NBA but died before his time. It could be anything.

The biggest winners have some sort of chip that they have developed and they use it. Get 8 guys with a chip larger than most and find them an actual leader who they all rally around. Easier to get 8 guys but harder to find a natural unquestioned leader for that group of egos.

Look at the 80 Celtics, they all said Larry was the leader without question, they wanted him to lead and we had egos like McHale, DJ, Walton, Maxwell, Pistol, Ainge. Without Bird it may have all fell apart like the Indiana Pacers of today.

Bird is now collecting winners with egos and they are playing well but a true leader has elluded them thus they have fallen a bit below the top.

Turner I think is a talented winner with a large ego who has never yet played with a guy he was winning to follow till the end. Until Turner plays on a team with a guy he looks up to as the alpha he will not reach his potential.

This is a great way to look at a player's career when you're trying to plug it into a nice back-of-the-basketball-card paragraph after he's called it a day.

Not saying that as a good thing or a bad thing, but that's what it is.

[inverselock]

Should of puffed out our chests and thrown some hand bags.  Internet forum tough guys.

The reality of sports competition is sometimes physical and aggressive. Just like the streets where some of these players grew up on. These guys are playing for big money...its serious stuff. Sorry thats just the way it is. 

If you don't think, with all the contact that is going on under the basket, like guy's leaning and pushing and talking crap in the paint, that there isn't bulling and intimidation going on. Come on.
Thats why the Celtics employed a Leon Powe type. When Leon came into the game, the bullies knew he wouldn't back down. Everything just just turned professional.

Not trying to be an internet forum tough guy, just realistic.
 

Silly thing to say on part part. 

Should of said, just play hard.  Angry isn't necessary.

[Asher77]

Look at Cousins or Lance, maybe Turner from his Sixer days. Sure there are lots of others. Even Jeff Green fits the example.

These guys all may be or have been the most talented players on there teams. Jeff was handed the reins as a go to player last year. Rondo was made our team captain.

I think everyone of these guys are good players that can help you win but none of them in my opinion can win over a locker room and have all the guys unquestionably think that there the man who will get them a ring.

We debate trades for Cousins or Lance or giving away Green. If we had a leader with the charisma or raw talent to keep a Cousins focused then trade for him yesterday. We don't have one and neither does most of the league.

Rondo had to go for debatable reasons but a main one in my eyes is that he would never follow Smart ( for example ). This has been his team for too long and he is too much a veteran ( worse that he is a PG ). If Rondo is not the guy to inspire others then he needs to step aside to allow this new guy to flourish here.

The young guys like KO might be happy to see the potential in a 20 year old like Smart and follow his lead. Maybe Turner or Green will come around as well. What if Sully see's himself as the team leader but the entire team is not inclined to follow.

The hardest job a GM has is not just collecting more talent and picks and flipping two 15 per scorers for a 20 per one. It is understanding the personalities on the roster and how they click.

You can collect all the talent in the world but there is one all important player to collect who will then allow the remaining team to fall in place easily. I think the last one we had was KG, he was enough of a leader that the huge ego's of PP, Ray, and Rondo were happy to follow.

To sum up my thought on the thread title lol, it is that when we find a true leader for this team our players will slowly build more passion to win and protect each other. At least our team helps each other up off the court, didn't see the kings even showing that basic respect.

The disappointing ( and exciting part ) is waiting and watching each game to find a guy we and the players can all rally around without knowing how long it will take.

[ViolentGhandi]

all things that might make you unhappy right now can be explained psychologicly

nobody helping Smart
Sully, Green, Bass seemingly unhappy
Rondo not giving it all

the team is in rebuilding mode - the players don't know what will happen to them
nobody expects them to win game as they don't have the talent too - the rotation isnt fixed
there is a lot of rather unexpierienced players

this results in a drop off in team chemistry, in consistency and in single player performance to be expected
even if someone gives all he can in this situation it will end up only beeing 95% while if you have a goal like becomming a contender might animate you to excel even to 105% at times

on a contender: the players enter the game fired up - they push each other in many ways - they fight for each other

on a tanker like we are those things are lacking to a certain degree and you can't really blame the players for it - they focus - work hard - and still they will fall short

the ppl constantly bashing certain players should take a closer look at themselfs because it happens to everyone at work, in private, in sports, in school, in friendships.... if you have the mindset that you can only fail it makes it a lot harder to give it a 100%

overcomming such situations makes some ppl to heroes - but if you look back in history there has only been a few of them - so there is hope just don't expect too much


oooohhh also - the lack of reaction when Smart got tossed mirrors nicely the robot like behavier BS is showing at the sideline - I know he is a good coach and in this situation with the team losing a lot he would quickly lose the trust of his players if he keeped exploding on the side, during timeouts, in the dressroom - but I like ppl who show emotions especially in sports - I like it when players get at each other as long as it does not totally escalate