Sounds like we attempted to trade Rondo for Juilus Randle

[Fafnir]

I think Ainge would move any of Randle/Olynyk/Sullinger if he had them. The fact that Ainge tried to trade Rondo for a high lottery pick shouldn't be surprising. I don't like Randle all that much, but he's certainly a good prospect/asset.

[Moranis]

The thing is, Rondo will almost definitely re-sign in Dallas now.  That is why you should never rely on the thinking yeah well we can just sign him this summer mentality.

Did I miss something?  I know Rondo has said that he is "inclined" to sign with Dallas but isn't Rondo still going to test free agency?  I guess based on the trade, Dallas is in a better position to sign him based on cap management but do we really know that it is in the "almost definitely" category?

I don't see any reason that he wouldn't sign with Dallas, I am just trying to confirm the background on this.  The best I could find is this quote from Yahoo Sports:

Rondo, 28, will be a free agent in July and his agent, Bill Duffy, gave the Mavericks a strong indication that Rondo would be inclined to sign a contract extension to stay with Dallas this summer, sources said.

Rondo said he wanted to stay with the Celtics too.  I think all Rondo has done is NOT say that he Won't sign with Dallas (for instance he did say he would not sign with Sacramento reportedly), which is fine and expected.  Dallas at this point probably has the best chance, better apparently than the Celtics ever had, but there is still quite a bit of drama to play out before any of this becomes clear I think.

And Dallas can offer an extra year and more money than anyone else.  I would be stunned if Rondo doesn't re-sign in Dallas unless there are real chemistry issues and problems the rest of this year.  Sure it isn't a given, but there is a reason the CBA is written to give your home team advantages.  It makes it a lot easier to keep your players.

[Boris Badenov]

It's probably the smart move for the Lakers, but why commit to Kobe so heavily if you're not going to put a win-now team around him?  I'm sure he's thrilled.

At this point you wonder if they committed to Kobe because why not, they'll suck anyways. Everything they've publically presented says they really thought they'd compete, but we all know smokescreens are often the name of the game in the NBA and LA.

Here's my theory on that:
1. By committing to Kobe when he's clearly not worth it, LA increases their rep as an organization that will stick by its stars and overpay them until they retire. They've always presented themselves this way and it's important given that their primary strategy for being good involves attracting FAs or superstars who demand trades there. This contract isn't about Kobe, it's about the *next* Kobe.

2. Kobe understands that they are not going to contend, esp. given how the West looks right now. He's gunning (no pun intended) for the all-time scoring record or as close as he can get. So, the wink-wink deal is "we stink but we don't complain when you shoot 27 times a game."

[slamtheking]

My point was that just because someone is playing 25 minutes on a rebuilding team doesn't mean there is any long-term plan to keep him around. In 5 years, half the prospects we have will be playing less than 10 minutes on some team on the west coast (or China). There's no reason not to go after a guy the league regards as an elite prospect because he's redundant with Kelly Olynyk and Jared Sullinger. Even if you don't like him, he's a great trade chip. The bottom line is that if we were trying to trade Randle right now, we would get a lot more than a pick and a trade exception.

but he's not regarded as an 'elite' prospect.  he would have gone higher if he was.

What exactly is it that you think he will do better than either Sully or KO?  score?  don't see it.  Sully and KO are both very good scoring around the bucket and pretty solid shooters (not digging the volume of Sully's 3's but he's still a solid shooter inside the line). 

Sully is a proven rebounder and a pretty decent passer.  KO is proving to be a really solid ballhandler and passer. 

Their biggest flaw is defense.  pure and simple.  Randle, even with all the hype, is known to be horrible on D.  worse than Sully and KO in college.  I'm not seeing why anyone thinks this guy will be better than the 2 young PFs we already have OR why we need to add to that logjam at PF, especially when we still have Bass for the year.

[slamtheking]

no interest in Randle.

injury questions aside, he's at best redundant with Sully and KO.  both of those guys have shown the ability to score and pass in the NBA. In Sully's case, he rebounds very well and in KO's case, he's a really good ballhandler.

And yet Ainge did show some interest, I think Sully's days are numbered, his D has to go and his lack of effort on one end has to go. I hope we get value for him but I think other teams value him less than we do.

and you see Randle's worse D as a solution to that?

by the way, what lack of effort are you referring to?  Sully plays pretty hard on O and D regardless of whether you like the results.

[Celtics4ever]

Sully plays pretty hard on O and D regardless of whether you like the results.

He doesn't even run up and down the court sometimes.  You call that hard?   I don't.  On offense, he prefers to linger on the three point line where he can stand and rest.

I get you like the guy, but open your eyes.  Would you like some game film posted where I show you this?

Like he worked hard in the off season. Kid probably weighs 280 if he weighs a pound.

[Fafnir]

Sully plays pretty hard on O and D regardless of whether you like the results.

He doesn't even run up and down the court sometimes.  You call that hard?   I don't.  On offense, he prefers to linger on the three point line where he can stand and rest.

I get you like the guy, but open your eyes.  Would you like some game film posted where I show you this?

Like he worked hard in the off season. Kid probably weighs 280 if he weighs a pound.

Go for it with the film. I'm curious what clips you'll select.

Of course like any youtube highlights you can clip together anything if you have an agenda for it. Remember the Steamer block videos?

Sully takes only 26% of his shots from deep and over 50% of them within 10 feet of the hoop. He's not adverse to the paint at all. He's also hitting 36% from deep, which is more than good enough to keep taking them as a big man.

[heyvik]

My point was that just because someone is playing 25 minutes on a rebuilding team doesn't mean there is any long-term plan to keep him around. In 5 years, half the prospects we have will be playing less than 10 minutes on some team on the west coast (or China). There's no reason not to go after a guy the league regards as an elite prospect because he's redundant with Kelly Olynyk and Jared Sullinger. Even if you don't like him, he's a great trade chip. The bottom line is that if we were trying to trade Randle right now, we would get a lot more than a pick and a trade exception.

but he's not regarded as an 'elite' prospect.  he would have gone higher if he was.

What exactly is it that you think he will do better than either Sully or KO?  score?  don't see it.  Sully and KO are both very good scoring around the bucket and pretty solid shooters (not digging the volume of Sully's 3's but he's still a solid shooter inside the line). 

Sully is a proven rebounder and a pretty decent passer.  KO is proving to be a really solid ballhandler and passer. 

Their biggest flaw is defense.  pure and simple.  Randle, even with all the hype, is known to be horrible on D.  worse than Sully and KO in college.  I'm not seeing why anyone thinks this guy will be better than the 2 young PFs we already have OR why we need to add to that logjam at PF, especially when we still have Bass for the year.

agreed with all your points - some people just don't see it that way. Randle is not elite and what GM in their right mind would trade for Randle -someone who has questionable D and is UNPROVEN so far. Now if you swap the name Randle for either Parker or Wiggins, THEN we have an argument.
I'll even add to it - what if it were Embiid?? then and only then would I be ok with adding a  trade chip. Embiid, although injured, is considered an elite trade chip and asset, Randle does not carry that same cache.

[Timdawgg]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba-power-rankings--warriors-still-shining-203840556.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

The Lakers and Celtics had mutual interest for a Rajon Rondo deal, but the Lakers weren?t willing to give up injured rookie Julius Randle, a source said.

... Well that settles that.  Rondo for Nash's expiring + Randle always seemed like the most logical deal to me.  Sounds like the Lakers weren't willing to give up their injured prospect.  I don't blame them.  They can just sign Rondo this summer.

Kudos to Ainge for trying to get something of value for Rondo.  Wish he had done it sooner when Rondo had more trade value.

Once Rondo went down with that ACL, he didn't have much trade value. His sub-par play last year left a lot of open questions about his ability. His expiring contract + public desire to test FA + horrid shooting+ disinterested defensive play + horrific 4th quarter play + wanting maximum money kept his value down this year. 

So the "sooner" in your statement was two years ago. Rondo's ACL injury was the domino that started all of this. Doc wanted out because he didn't want to coach a losing team. It forced the Pierce/KG trade because without Rondo we'd already seen that those guys didn't have enough in the tank to carry the team in the playoffs (you can reverse the Doc/KG trades since they happened almost simultaneously). In short, the window to trade Rondo and get max value was two years ago and had Danny done so the fans would have killed him because that was when Rondo was playing some great ball.

This is so true. 

[BballTim]

Sully plays pretty hard on O and D regardless of whether you like the results.

He doesn't even run up and down the court sometimes.  You call that hard?   I don't.  On offense, he prefers to linger on the three point line where he can stand and rest.

I get you like the guy, but open your eyes.  Would you like some game film posted where I show you this?

Like he worked hard in the off season. Kid probably weighs 280 if he weighs a pound.

  This isn't street ball, where the players decide on their own what they're going to do on offense. If you see Sully hanging around the 3 point line there's a much better chance that he's out there because that's where Stevens wants him to be than he decided to stand around and rest.

[Fafnir]

Yeah the Rondo ACL tear was a disaster for him and the franchise. Preventing getting a big haul if Danny wasn't going to build around him, set back his own game, and eliminated the best window where we could evaluate him as a player to build around post KG/Pierce.

[slamtheking]

Sully plays pretty hard on O and D regardless of whether you like the results.

He doesn't even run up and down the court sometimes.  You call that hard?   I don't.  On offense, he prefers to linger on the three point line where he can stand and rest.

I get you like the guy, but open your eyes.  Would you like some game film posted where I show you this?

Like he worked hard in the off season. Kid probably weighs 280 if he weighs a pound.

Go for it with the film. I'm curious what clips you'll select.

Of course like any youtube highlights you can clip together anything if you have an agenda for it. Remember the Steamer block videos?

Sully takes only 26% of his shots from deep and over 50% of them within 10 feet of the hoop. He's not adverse to the paint at all. He's also hitting 36% from deep, which is more than good enough to keep taking them as a big man.

thoroughly agree.  video clips mean nothing.

I watch the games.  Sully is trying.  the results aren't always great but he hustles.  can't get rebounds by standing around and watching but that's evidently overlooked in the discussion.  AND if the complaint is he doesn't run under the basket on each offensive possession but sits at the 3 point line, I can live with that since he's not the fastest player and it typically means the team is on a fast break.  as long has he hustles back on D, I can live with him out at the 3 on occasion.

[slamtheking]

My point was that just because someone is playing 25 minutes on a rebuilding team doesn't mean there is any long-term plan to keep him around. In 5 years, half the prospects we have will be playing less than 10 minutes on some team on the west coast (or China). There's no reason not to go after a guy the league regards as an elite prospect because he's redundant with Kelly Olynyk and Jared Sullinger. Even if you don't like him, he's a great trade chip. The bottom line is that if we were trying to trade Randle right now, we would get a lot more than a pick and a trade exception.

but he's not regarded as an 'elite' prospect.  he would have gone higher if he was.

What exactly is it that you think he will do better than either Sully or KO?  score?  don't see it.  Sully and KO are both very good scoring around the bucket and pretty solid shooters (not digging the volume of Sully's 3's but he's still a solid shooter inside the line). 

Sully is a proven rebounder and a pretty decent passer.  KO is proving to be a really solid ballhandler and passer. 

Their biggest flaw is defense.  pure and simple.  Randle, even with all the hype, is known to be horrible on D.  worse than Sully and KO in college.  I'm not seeing why anyone thinks this guy will be better than the 2 young PFs we already have OR why we need to add to that logjam at PF, especially when we still have Bass for the year.

agreed with all your points - some people just don't see it that way. Randle is not elite and what GM in their right mind would trade for Randle -someone who has questionable D and is UNPROVEN so far. Now if you swap the name Randle for either Parker or Wiggins, THEN we have an argument.
I'll even add to it - what if it were Embiid?? then and only then would I be ok with adding a  trade chip. Embiid, although injured, is considered an elite trade chip and asset, Randle does not carry that same cache.

agreed -- Randle's not a top-tier prospect that you trade for without seeing how his game translates to the NBA, particularly his weak points.

[slamtheking]

Sully plays pretty hard on O and D regardless of whether you like the results.

He doesn't even run up and down the court sometimes.  You call that hard?   I don't.  On offense, he prefers to linger on the three point line where he can stand and rest.

I get you like the guy, but open your eyes.  Would you like some game film posted where I show you this?

Like he worked hard in the off season. Kid probably weighs 280 if he weighs a pound.

  This isn't street ball, where the players decide on their own what they're going to do on offense. If you see Sully hanging around the 3 point line there's a much better chance that he's out there because that's where Stevens wants him to be than he decided to stand around and rest.

agree - not sure where this comes from. 

[littleteapot]

but he's not regarded as an 'elite' prospect.  he would have gone higher if he was.

What exactly is it that you think he will do better than either Sully or KO?  score?  don't see it.  Sully and KO are both very good scoring around the bucket and pretty solid shooters (not digging the volume of Sully's 3's but he's still a solid shooter inside the line). 

Sully is a proven rebounder and a pretty decent passer.  KO is proving to be a really solid ballhandler and passer. 

Their biggest flaw is defense.  pure and simple.  Randle, even with all the hype, is known to be horrible on D.  worse than Sully and KO in college.  I'm not seeing why anyone thinks this guy will be better than the 2 young PFs we already have OR why we need to add to that logjam at PF, especially when we still have Bass for the year.

That draft had 7 guys who would have gone top 3 in an average draft: Wiggins, Parker, Embiid, Gordon, Exum, Smart, Randle and Vonleh. None of those guys are getting traded for 4 months of production from a borderline all-star. Like I said earlier, would you trade Smart for ZBo?

Randle is a much better athlete than Sullinger or Olynyk and he has the potential to be a go-to offensive weapon, as he was in college. I don't really think either of Sully or Olynyk is that. They can attack in the post or face up in the right matchup/situation but they can't really create their own offense.

Keep in mind Randle only played in college his freshman year and was one of the youngest  freshmen. Olynyk redshirted his freshman year - its not a like comparison.

CORRECTION: Olynyk played on the bench his freshman and sophomore seasons and redshirted as a junior. Regardless the dominant college basketball player we drafted was Olynyk as a senior. At the same ages, Randle was much better in all facets of the game than Olynyk.