Is Rondo more of a role player?

[Rondo9]

I mean, yeah, if you consider rebounding and running a team "roles."  By the same logic you could consider Ben Wallace a role player, but that doesn't mean he wasn't a pivotal part of their championship (and an All-Star).  No, Rondo, probably can't be the best player on a championship team, but I don't see anybody ever claiming that.  If he had 3-4 other players on the same tier as him like Big Ben had, I don't think he'd have trouble winning a title whatsoever.

A team with Rondo and Ben Wallace as star players would never ever win a championship.

What does that have to do with what I said?

I misunderstood what you wrote. After a second reading, I don't think Rondo would win anything if had same tier players with him. It needs to be above his level a notch.

I think Rondo will have a tremendous amount success with players on his level.

[SHAQATTACK]

I don't see Rondo as a role player off the bench at all...until he is like 34 or 35 years ols as a backup for a star.

He thrives on THE Challenge ..playing famous opponents on TV...he is wired so different .   Unpredictable concentration and effort level .
Like ..he picks and chooses when he is going to give bad effort in a game.

I think a group of all star peers would bring the best out in him .  He needs to be ragged and kick started ......Kobe might be good for him ,  they might not get along ...but the result might be Rondo playing consistent ball

[Rondo9]

Funny how the pendulum swings. I have felt Rondo was over rated for some time. Now it is swinging the other way perhaps. The lack of any scoring lately has been puzzling. He had his best game a few ago and there were a series discussions about that but he was still 6-17 in that game.

Rondo has been playing like a role player for a few games but I am not quite ready to declare him role player. It is hurting his HOF first ballot chances though.

As for the Rodman and Wallace comparisons, I have referenced Wallace many times and generally received severe criticism from the legion of Rondo advocates.

Rondo is more underrated on these forums now and no I don't think comparable to Rodman or Wallace.

[TheFlex]

He's a quasi-star. True stars may need fellow stars to win a championship but not to put up their usual stats and help any team immensely. Rondo can add a number of wins to a team that is already good but he will not do much for a cellar squad.

[cman88]

im starting to get frustrated with Rondo. he is supposed to be our max player and hes only averaging

8.2ppg, 7.6rpg, 10.8 apg.

the rebounds and assists are nice. but you expect your star player to score more than 8points a game. he should be taking over these games and try to be the best player on the floor. when the big 3 disbanded I was hoping that Rondo would take a more active scoring role on the team. but he still seems content to sit back and dish, let others score.

and when Jeff green/sullinger are your top two scoring options you are going to lose alot of games. and thats nothing against those guys.

I think rondo is what he is at this point. he is a guy who you need to put other stars around and he makes a nice #3 option of a big 3 where he can let others score and just kind of quarterback the game.

[Rondo9]

im starting to get frustrated with Rondo. he is supposed to be our max player and hes only averaging

8.2ppg, 7.6rpg, 10.8 apg.

the rebounds and assists are nice. but you expect your star player to score more than 8points a game. he should be taking over these games and try to be the best player on the floor. when the big 3 disbanded I was hoping that Rondo would take a more active scoring role on the team. but he still seems content to sit back and dish, let others score.

and when Jeff green/sullinger are your top two scoring options you are going to lose alot of games. and thats nothing against those guys.

I think rondo is what he is at this point. he is a guy who you need to put other stars around and he makes a nice #3 option of a big 3 where he can let others score and just kind of quarterback the game.

We'll he is a pass first point guard after all

[TheFlex]

im starting to get frustrated with Rondo. he is supposed to be our max player and hes only averaging

8.2ppg, 7.6rpg, 10.8 apg.

the rebounds and assists are nice. but you expect your star player to score more than 8points a game. he should be taking over these games and try to be the best player on the floor. when the big 3 disbanded I was hoping that Rondo would take a more active scoring role on the team. but he still seems content to sit back and dish, let others score.

and when Jeff green/sullinger are your top two scoring options you are going to lose alot of games. and thats nothing against those guys.

I think rondo is what he is at this point. he is a guy who you need to put other stars around and he makes a nice #3 option of a big 3 where he can let others score and just kind of quarterback the game.

We'll he is a pass first point guard after all

And thus not a max player.

[Celtics4ever]

No way is he a max player, you'd have to be delusional to think that.

[Rondo9]

im starting to get frustrated with Rondo. he is supposed to be our max player and hes only averaging

8.2ppg, 7.6rpg, 10.8 apg.

the rebounds and assists are nice. but you expect your star player to score more than 8points a game. he should be taking over these games and try to be the best player on the floor. when the big 3 disbanded I was hoping that Rondo would take a more active scoring role on the team. but he still seems content to sit back and dish, let others score.

and when Jeff green/sullinger are your top two scoring options you are going to lose alot of games. and thats nothing against those guys.

I think rondo is what he is at this point. he is a guy who you need to put other stars around and he makes a nice #3 option of a big 3 where he can let others score and just kind of quarterback the game.

We'll he is a pass first point guard after all

And thus not a max player.

Okay so what?

[Eddie20]

im starting to get frustrated with Rondo. he is supposed to be our max player and hes only averaging

8.2ppg, 7.6rpg, 10.8 apg.

the rebounds and assists are nice. but you expect your star player to score more than 8points a game. he should be taking over these games and try to be the best player on the floor. when the big 3 disbanded I was hoping that Rondo would take a more active scoring role on the team. but he still seems content to sit back and dish, let others score.

and when Jeff green/sullinger are your top two scoring options you are going to lose alot of games. and thats nothing against those guys.

I think rondo is what he is at this point. he is a guy who you need to put other stars around and he makes a nice #3 option of a big 3 where he can let others score and just kind of quarterback the game.

We'll he is a pass first point guard after all

And thus not a max player.

Okay so what?

He'll probably be gone this summer then. Either we overpay or we lost him outright for nothing. Neither is a desirable option, but I think I'd prefer letting him walk then burdening our cap with his max salary.

On Celtics Pregame Live, Chris Mannix of Sports Illustrated gave his take.

"If he doesn't get [a max offer] from the Celtics, he's going to get it from somebody else. And it's probably going to be the Lakers," said Mannix. "Rondo and Kobe Bryant, two cut from the same cloth type of guys, both killers, both want to win every single night.

"I think a team like the Lakers would make a big substantial offer for Rondo in the max territory."

[TheFlex]

im starting to get frustrated with Rondo. he is supposed to be our max player and hes only averaging

8.2ppg, 7.6rpg, 10.8 apg.

the rebounds and assists are nice. but you expect your star player to score more than 8points a game. he should be taking over these games and try to be the best player on the floor. when the big 3 disbanded I was hoping that Rondo would take a more active scoring role on the team. but he still seems content to sit back and dish, let others score.

and when Jeff green/sullinger are your top two scoring options you are going to lose alot of games. and thats nothing against those guys.

I think rondo is what he is at this point. he is a guy who you need to put other stars around and he makes a nice #3 option of a big 3 where he can let others score and just kind of quarterback the game.

We'll he is a pass first point guard after all

And thus not a max player.

Okay so what?

I already answered your question directly as to my thoughts on Rondo's star-status (not a star, but a quasi-star) so I figured I'd offer my thoughts on what this means for Rondo's future with the Cs.

A rebuilding team will not pay the max or anything close to it for a player who can't put the team on his back. Rondo is gone whether it be in February or July.

That doesn't mean I think we should trade him just to trade him, as I posted in another thread. The cap space Rondo would free up is too valuable to relinquish for a mid-to-late 1st rounder if it means we have to take on contracts that extend past this offseason in the process. It'd take a lotto first or a good young player to get it done if we had to absorb a multi-year deal. For anyone who doesn't think a quasi-star could net that type of return, consider what the Rockets gave up for Omer Asik (lesser player, higher positional value) this summer.

[Vermont Green]

im starting to get frustrated with Rondo. he is supposed to be our max player and hes only averaging

8.2ppg, 7.6rpg, 10.8 apg.

the rebounds and assists are nice. but you expect your star player to score more than 8points a game. he should be taking over these games and try to be the best player on the floor. when the big 3 disbanded I was hoping that Rondo would take a more active scoring role on the team. but he still seems content to sit back and dish, let others score.

and when Jeff green/sullinger are your top two scoring options you are going to lose alot of games. and thats nothing against those guys.

I think rondo is what he is at this point. he is a guy who you need to put other stars around and he makes a nice #3 option of a big 3 where he can let others score and just kind of quarterback the game.

We'll he is a pass first point guard after all

Pass "first" for a PG implies score second, not doesn't score or can't score. It implies a PG that gets others involved as an unselfish act, not a stat grabbing act or an act to avoid a weakness in your game.  I think this phrase (pass first) is being over used and making it seem like it is OK that Rondo can't / won't shoot because he is pass first. 

Ben Wallace and Rondo are similar in that both are freakishly talented in certain basketball aspects but also both extremely weak shooters for their position. They play different positions so this manifests itself in different ways so you can't treat it purely literally.  You can't try to say Wallce was pass first to compensate for his flaws but you can say things like he was a blue collar big or whatever. It is Ok he couldn't shoot because he did the dirty work would be the kind of thing you would say instead of he is a pass first PG.

It is the same for Wallace as it is for Rondo. They are both able to be valuable NBA players due to freakish talents in spite of having massive shooting/scoring flaws relative to the expectation of their position ( even for a pass first or blue collar version of their position).

[GreenFaith1819]

Ok, I'll step back a bit from the HOF statement.

Even though I believe he will get in the HOF, the fact that he is still writing his book remains.

But he is certainly more than a role player.

For all that, Chris Paul is a role player as well. Westbrook, too.

For all those two considerable all-around skills (and the talent around them), they have yet to produce a ring. Rondo has one, and came within striking distance of another.

And he got THROUGH Lebron to get his rings and Final appearance...something that CP3 nor Westbrook has done.

[dwoumn]

im starting to get frustrated with Rondo. he is supposed to be our max player and hes only averaging

8.2ppg, 7.6rpg, 10.8 apg.

the rebounds and assists are nice. but you expect your star player to score more than 8points a game. he should be taking over these games and try to be the best player on the floor. when the big 3 disbanded I was hoping that Rondo would take a more active scoring role on the team. but he still seems content to sit back and dish, let others score.

and when Jeff green/sullinger are your top two scoring options you are going to lose alot of games. and thats nothing against those guys.

I think rondo is what he is at this point. he is a guy who you need to put other stars around and he makes a nice #3 option of a big 3 where he can let others score and just kind of quarterback the game.

Rondo has never been a scoring PG, he was lucky to have great complimentary players (Pierce, Garnett, Allen) who on any day can lead the team. Rondo was never the primary go to guy to score when they needed a bucket, when their offense hit a dry spell, or in the last seconds of a game. Rondo was the player making the players so that Pierce, Garnett, and Allen can score. When Rondo was putting up big names, it was because teams defensively would worry about Pierce, Garnett, and Allen first. This C's team now doesn't have that threat!

I will say this, Rondo has not be as aggressive as he has been in the past. Coming off P&R, he's usually in attack mode but this year not so much and seems to settle way too much, just like the rest of the team. Something Doc did to get Rondo going in games, was to post him and let his craftiness take over but with Brad Stevens it looks like he's encouraging him to take the outside shot, which he's inconsistent. As someone said in an earlier post, Rondo is an all-star caliber role player, but he has to be surrounded by those players that will open his game up. If DA wants to keep him, he has his work cut out for him.

[Eddie20]

im starting to get frustrated with Rondo. he is supposed to be our max player and hes only averaging

8.2ppg, 7.6rpg, 10.8 apg.

the rebounds and assists are nice. but you expect your star player to score more than 8points a game. he should be taking over these games and try to be the best player on the floor. when the big 3 disbanded I was hoping that Rondo would take a more active scoring role on the team. but he still seems content to sit back and dish, let others score.

and when Jeff green/sullinger are your top two scoring options you are going to lose alot of games. and thats nothing against those guys.

I think rondo is what he is at this point. he is a guy who you need to put other stars around and he makes a nice #3 option of a big 3 where he can let others score and just kind of quarterback the game.

We'll he is a pass first point guard after all

And thus not a max player.

Okay so what?

I already answered your question directly as to my thoughts on Rondo's star-status (not a star, but a quasi-star) so I figured I'd offer my thoughts on what this means for Rondo's future with the Cs.

A rebuilding team will not pay the max or anything close to it for a player who can't put the team on his back. Rondo is gone whether it be in February or July.

That doesn't mean I think we should trade him just to trade him, as I posted in another thread. The cap space Rondo would free up is too valuable to relinquish for a mid-to-late 1st rounder if it means we have to take on contracts that extend past this offseason in the process. It'd take a lotto first or a good young player to get it done if we had to absorb a multi-year deal. For anyone who doesn't think a quasi-star could net that type of return, consider what the Rockets gave up for Omer Asik (lesser player, higher positional value) this summer.

The less player/higher positional value is interesting topic. There are so many PG's in the league that it devalues the position. Not with the top guys (Paul, Curry, Westbrook), but with players in 10-15 range at their spot. Positional scarcity being key, Rondo being a PG in the 10-15 range means what caliber player at other positions? Interesting in terms of value.