The Celtics are 10 points worse with Green on the court

[Chris22]

The Celtics have been remarkably better without Green this season, continuing a career-long trend in which his teams simply tend to perform better without him.
For the season, the Celtics own a net differential -- the difference between their offensive and defensive rating -- of plus 5.9 without Green. The next worst number on the team is Evan Turner at a mere plus 0.6. Green is one of only three players with a plus off-court differential. (Marcus Thornton is the other at plus 0.2.)

Switching to on-court marks, Green's ratings (101.9 offense; 106.6 defense) leave him with a net rating of minus-4.8 when he's on the floor. That's the second-worst mark on the team, behind only Thornton at minus-6.0 when you eliminate rookies James Young and Dwight Powell.

To put it another way, the numbers suggest that the Celtics are 10 points better per 100 possessions when Green is off the court than on it.

http://espn.go.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/12006386/jeff-green-work-translating-success-boston-celtics

[wdleehi]

The issue with Green is not his talent or his game, but the role the Celtics need him to play.


After Rondo, Green is the best combination of talent and experience on the Celtics.  They need him to be the 2nd best player and a consistent offensive threat.  That is not Green. 


Green would be great as that 4th starter on a strong team. 

[dreamgreen]

That's because he plays a lot of minutes and the team sucks. When you lose more than you win you get those kind of numbers.

Green is a good player, on a real good team he would be the third option. On our team he is the first and he's just not good enough to be that. Danny has a very difficult job I'm not sure how he is going to get better scoring options in trades and the draft is a crap shoot.

[wdleehi]

That's because he plays a lot of minutes and the team sucks. When you lose more than you win you get those kind of numbers.

Green is a good player, on a real good team he would be the third option. On our team he is the first and he's just not good enough to be that. Danny has a very difficult job I'm not sure how he is going to get better scoring options in trades and the draft is a crap shoot.

That only works if all the players that played a lot of minutes had similar results.

[Chris22]

That's because he plays a lot of minutes and the team sucks. When you lose more than you win you get those kind of numbers.

Green is a good player, on a real good team he would be the third option. On our team he is the first and he's just not good enough to be that. Danny has a very difficult job I'm not sure how he is going to get better scoring options in trades and the draft is a crap shoot.

Sullinger plays a lot of minutes and has a positive plus and minus.

[BitterJim]

I'd like tonsee the positional breakdown for this, I know earlier in the season his net rating at PF was awful and I wonder how much playing out of position is affecting his overall rating

Also, if Green and Turner have negative on floor ratings, does that mean Wallace is the only guy who plays SF with a positive rating?

[Donoghus]

That's because he plays a lot of minutes and the team sucks. When you lose more than you win you get those kind of numbers.

Green is a good player, on a real good team he would be the third option. On our team he is the first and he's just not good enough to be that. Danny has a very difficult job I'm not sure how he is going to get better scoring options in trades and the draft is a crap shoot.

Sullinger plays a lot of minutes and has a positive plus and minus.

Green has played nearly 100 more minutes this season than Sullinger.  94 by my count from Basketball Reference.

That's kinda significant.

[Fafnir]

On/off numbers are crazy noisy, even 1000 minutes is an extremely small sample size for player evaluation.

Context also matters a lot, as BitterJim mentions does Green get left out there at PF to play small as a desparation tactic? Does he get left out there with the bad players on the team? I don't like raw adjusted +/- for that reason. Lineup data is more worth looking at imo, what lineups is Green successful with.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/greenje02/lineups/2015/

[BballTim]

The Celtics have been remarkably better without Green this season, continuing a career-long trend in which his teams simply tend to perform better without him.
For the season, the Celtics own a net differential -- the difference between their offensive and defensive rating -- of plus 5.9 without Green. The next worst number on the team is Evan Turner at a mere plus 0.6. Green is one of only three players with a plus off-court differential. (Marcus Thornton is the other at plus 0.2.)

Switching to on-court marks, Green's ratings (101.9 offense; 106.6 defense) leave him with a net rating of minus-4.8 when he's on the floor. That's the second-worst mark on the team, behind only Thornton at minus-6.0 when you eliminate rookies James Young and Dwight Powell.

To put it another way, the numbers suggest that the Celtics are 10 points better per 100 possessions when Green is off the court than on it.

http://espn.go.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/12006386/jeff-green-work-translating-success-boston-celtics

  You really can't use the numbers like that. First of all, they're very noisy. You'd really need to look at a few years worth of data to make any useful conclusions. Secondly the numbers are highly dependent on who he's on the court with. If Stevens leaves Green in with 3-4 subs that will have a negative effect on his numbers. It's not the direct reflection on Green's play that people think it is.

[blink]

You are making the same mistake you make over and over again by copy and pasting the won/loss numbers about Rondo.  There is a thing called context and it is extremely important. 

[clover]

Green's in marginal starter territory. His +/- numbers the last two years have been pretty bad as a starter, but he did better off the bench behind Pierce.

Likewise, Bass had pretty bad +/- numbers the last two years, but this year off the bench he's looking quite good.

Rondo and Bass both had better numbers as starters as late as '11-'12, when they were still playing for a good team.

So yeah, with +/-, teammates and bench vs. starter opponents can significantly affect even players' longer-term numbers.

[Quetzalcoatl]

We have benefit of the doubt on the +/- thing because of the fact that our team isn't very good, he's 17th in scoring in the league right now and is shooting 45%.  He is so ripe for a trade it's not funny

[Chris22]

That's because he plays a lot of minutes and the team sucks. When you lose more than you win you get those kind of numbers.

Green is a good player, on a real good team he would be the third option. On our team he is the first and he's just not good enough to be that. Danny has a very difficult job I'm not sure how he is going to get better scoring options in trades and the draft is a crap shoot.

Sullinger plays a lot of minutes and has a positive plus and minus.

Green has played nearly 100 more minutes this season than Sullinger.  94 by my count from Basketball Reference.

That's kinda significant.

Celtics are 11 points worse when Green is on the court.

Celtics are 11 points better when Sullinger is on the court.

That's even more significant.

[Tr1boy]

Green has brought his A game this season.  The only thing im a little disappointed about is his lack of focus on the defensive end. Old man pierce took him to school

[Donoghus]

That's because he plays a lot of minutes and the team sucks. When you lose more than you win you get those kind of numbers.

Green is a good player, on a real good team he would be the third option. On our team he is the first and he's just not good enough to be that. Danny has a very difficult job I'm not sure how he is going to get better scoring options in trades and the draft is a crap shoot.

Sullinger plays a lot of minutes and has a positive plus and minus.

Green has played nearly 100 more minutes this season than Sullinger.  94 by my count from Basketball Reference.

That's kinda significant.

Celtics are 11 points worse when Green is on the court.

Celtics are 11 points better when Sullinger is on the court.

That's even more significant.

Do you understand the idea of context when it comes to posting items?   The idea of minutes played or 5 man units or simply an understanding of what goes behind a lot of the items you copy & paste on these boards?