The Celtics are 10 points worse with Green on the court

[TheTruthFot18]

Green has brought his A game this season.  The only thing im a little disappointed about is his lack of focus on the defensive end. Old man pierce took him to school

I second this. Much better than last year

[tstorey_97]

In his "player/group" he's about fifth in league for ppg and he is upper end on free throws (darn good FT shooter). Mid pack stats elsewhere.

Guy's been a champ this year, he is hauling a tricycle with two flat tires up a hill with this roster. He's been asked to be "Mr. Everything" all the time for the team. I think Stevens has made a big effort trying to make the scheme "right" for Green and it shows this year.

He has to play a lot of good NBA players out there on the wing, this may be a stat killer for him, I don't know

I don't love his game, but, he is a cuckoo athlete and this year, he's been good.

I agree with above  reference that Jeff Green is highly tradeable.

In answer to the post, if the Celtic's trade Jeff Green for something like a mid first round pick and some good player who is hurt 'til next year....are the Celtics a worse team for the rest of this year?

Well, yeah, obviously.

Is Green in Paul Pierce's class? Good, God no.

[mmmmm]

I'd like tonsee the positional breakdown for this, I know earlier in the season his net rating at PF was awful and I wonder how much playing out of position is affecting his overall rating

Also, if Green and Turner have negative on floor ratings, does that mean Wallace is the only guy who plays SF with a positive rating?

This^ gets to the real issue.

Green's numbers at SF are much, much better than at PF.   Similarly, Turner's numbers are much better at SG than at SF.

Here is an interesting breakdown of the team's Net rating (net points per 100 possessions) for Green's most common 2-man combinations:

JG + RR, 460m, -2.6
JG + AB, 460m, 0.0
JG + JS, 418m, +1.1
JG + KO, 348m, -6.7
JG + TZ, 236m, -0.7
JG + ET, 226m, -20.9      <----!!!!!!!
JG + BB, 208m,  -13.9

Most of the numbers all float around close to but slightly below 0, which makes sense for a guy playing a ton of minutes on an overall below average team.

The last two are pretty harsh and suggest some flawed lineup being put out there.

If you look at the team's various 3-man combinations, the team's _best_ 3-man unit is Green + Sullinger + Zeller, with a Net Rating of +19 (122 minutes).

The teams's _worst_ 3-man unit is Green + Bass + Turner with a Net Rating of -27.6 (107 minutes).

At this point, most of the 4 & 5 man units are too cut-up into small chunks well under 100 minutes so I don't want to try to assert where exactly the problem is yet.  We have only two 5-man units that have played over 100 minutes and none of the others have played over 44!    Opponents have to be considered as well.

FWIW, here are our only two 5-man units to play over 100 minutes so far:

RR+AB+JG+JS+KO, 140m, -2.2
RR+AB+JG+JS+TZ, 109m, +21.3

Before you look at that and point the great big finger of "A-HA!" at Olynyk, you should keep in mind that most to the latter unit's minutes have come in the last few games, after the strength of schedule got a LOT easier.

[mmmmm]

That's because he plays a lot of minutes and the team sucks. When you lose more than you win you get those kind of numbers.

Green is a good player, on a real good team he would be the third option. On our team he is the first and he's just not good enough to be that. Danny has a very difficult job I'm not sure how he is going to get better scoring options in trades and the draft is a crap shoot.

Sullinger plays a lot of minutes and has a positive plus and minus.

Green has played nearly 100 more minutes this season than Sullinger.  94 by my count from Basketball Reference.

That's kinda significant.

Celtics are 11 points worse when Green is on the court.

Celtics are 11 points better when Sullinger is on the court.

That's even more significant.

So… we know that Green has played about 100 more minutes than Sully.

AND we also know he's played about 107 minutes with Bass & Turner on the floor with him in configurations that posted really awful numbers (-27.6 net rating)?

Maybe that is significant.

[hwangjini_1]

In his "player/group" he's about fifth in league for ppg and he is upper end on free throws (darn good FT shooter). Mid pack stats elsewhere.

Guy's been a champ this year, he is hauling a tricycle with two flat tires up a hill with this roster. He's been asked to be "Mr. Everything" all the time for the team. I think Stevens has made a big effort trying to make the scheme "right" for Green and it shows this year.

He has to play a lot of good NBA players out there on the wing, this may be a stat killer for him, I don't know

I don't love his game, but, he is a cuckoo athlete and this year, he's been good.

I agree with above  reference that Jeff Green is highly tradeable.

In answer to the post, if the Celtic's trade Jeff Green for something like a mid first round pick and some good player who is hurt 'til next year....are the Celtics a worse team for the rest of this year?

Well, yeah, obviously.

Is Green in Paul Pierce's class? Good, God no.

not in rebounding. as a sf he is tied for 23rd in the league with 4.5 rebounds per game. clearly not in the middle of the pack.

if we look at his rebounding as a pf, he drops even more, ranking 39th.

[BDeCosta26]

Right now, Jeff Green is our best player. He's looked as good as he's ever had. Maximizing his talents and FINALLY doing it on a consistent basis. There's been so much talk about getting rid of him, and now people are starting to reconsider. I mean, really is there a better option out there? Especially if he keeps putting up 20+ ppg?

What Ainge does in the next 6-8 months is going to tell us what direction were gonna go with this rebuild. Green might be his best player asset right now. His trade value is as high as ever. He might even fetch a better package than Rondo right now.

[SHAQATTACK]

Not complaining about Green now .....he finally is worth the money .   He is THE best scorer , pure player we got .

Pleased with his attitude and effort.

[mmmmm]

In his "player/group" he's about fifth in league for ppg and he is upper end on free throws (darn good FT shooter). Mid pack stats elsewhere.

Guy's been a champ this year, he is hauling a tricycle with two flat tires up a hill with this roster. He's been asked to be "Mr. Everything" all the time for the team. I think Stevens has made a big effort trying to make the scheme "right" for Green and it shows this year.

He has to play a lot of good NBA players out there on the wing, this may be a stat killer for him, I don't know

I don't love his game, but, he is a cuckoo athlete and this year, he's been good.

I agree with above  reference that Jeff Green is highly tradeable.

In answer to the post, if the Celtic's trade Jeff Green for something like a mid first round pick and some good player who is hurt 'til next year....are the Celtics a worse team for the rest of this year?

Well, yeah, obviously.

Is Green in Paul Pierce's class? Good, God no.

not in rebounding. as a sf he is tied for 23rd in the league with 4.5 rebounds per game. clearly not in the middle of the pack.

if we look at his rebounding as a pf, he drops even more, ranking 39th.

Fun with numbers.  Overall Green is averaging 4.7 rebounds per 36 minutes of play.  Do you know how many Lebron James is averaging?  5.2 per 36

Both players play some minutes at different positions.  When playing SF, Green averages 5.2 per 36.   Lebron averages a bit more:  5.6 per 36

Now, at PF, Green very simply is out of position.  ALL of his numbers across the board are worse at PF.  He's only averaging about 4.3 rebounds per 36 at PF.     Fortunately, Brad is playing him less and less at PF than at the start of the season.  He's down to just about 14% of his minutes there compared to about 30% through the early games of the season.

James has much more dominant rebounding numbers  at PF … but this year, he's playing far fewer minutes at PF, just under 4% of his minutes so far this year.  He's actually been playing mostly at SF and SG!

[Chris22]

Right now, Jeff Green is our best player. He's looked as good as he's ever had. Maximizing his talents and FINALLY doing it on a consistent basis. There's been so much talk about getting rid of him, and now people are starting to reconsider. I mean, really is there a better option out there? Especially if he keeps putting up 20+ ppg?

What Ainge does in the next 6-8 months is going to tell us what direction were gonna go with this rebuild. Green might be his best player asset right now. His trade value is as high as ever. He might even fetch a better package than Rondo right now.

Sullinger is our best player.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics
http://www.82games.com/1415/1415BOS.HTM

[PickNRoll]

Rondo, then Sully, then Green.  This is the best Jeff Green we're ever gonna get, so I'm happy.

Also, +/- is still the most useless stat around, with PER a close second.

[2short]

ahhh this is refreshing
anyone notice there hasn't been a lot of jeff green bashing this year?  mostly rondo bashing
i'm happy to have both guys AND I want Jeff Green on the court with our team and resigned after his contract

[vjcsmoke]

We have benefit of the doubt on the +/- thing because of the fact that our team isn't very good, he's 17th in scoring in the league right now and is shooting 45%.  He is so ripe for a trade it's not funny

As long as we could get a good return I'm all for it.  If we can get a top 5 pick or a top 5 prospect.  I don't see any reason why we wouldn't trade a guy who is a starter caliber player on a good team, but just not the right fit for our team at this time because he will never be 'the guy'.

[kozlodoev]

ahhh this is refreshing
anyone notice there hasn't been a lot of jeff green bashing this year?  mostly rondo bashing
i'm happy to have both guys AND I want Jeff Green on the court with our team and resigned after his contract

Well, now that he is no longer "the same guy on a per-minute basis" that he has been for the entirety of his career, folks had to figure out something else to yap about -- hence the +/- argument.

[greece66]

My reaction to this thread is that this is using numbers without context. A bad idea.
If you want to make the case against Jeff Green you have to talk specifically: what you think is wrong with the way he plays the game, the way he interacts in the team, and his athletic abilities.
Saying that some numeric measurements prove Green is bad is getting us nowhere.

[Chief]

You are making the same mistake you make over and over again by copy and pasting the won/loss numbers about Rondo.  There is a thing called context and it is extremely important.

Green spends a lot of time with the bench unit. And if you spend a lot of time playing with Bass, you are going to have a terrible +/-.