Three of our starters are top ten at their position.

[Celtics18]

Rajon Rondo, Jeff Green, Jared Sullinger.

I'm not claiming that they are playing at super star levels or anything like that, but these guys form a very decent "Medium Three."  Bradley and Zeller fill in nicely around them as role players.

Pressey, Thornton, Turner, Bass, and Olynyk is a solid bench.

There's been a lot of talk about how we lack talent, but I feel that at 6 and 11 we may actually have underachieved so far. 

We've had a very tough schedule and played some of the top dogs in the league tough, but haven't had enough to get over the hump.

Hopefully, we can continue to get back on track during a month of December that looks considerably easier than October.

I'm hoping to see us be close to .500 by the end of the calendar year. 

[jambr380]

Maybe a little optimistic, but I will agree that we actually have very decent mid-level talent on our team. Also, our bench is actually pretty solid.

The problem is our lack of a 'superstar' go-to scorer and 'rim protection'. You are right that our record is probably a little deceiving, but the main reason for that is we are totally unable to close out a game - like worst I've ever seen, bad. This can really only be corrected with the acquisition of our next Paul Pierce.

[Celtics18]

Maybe a little optimistic, but I will agree that we actually have very decent mid-level talent on our team. Also, our bench is actually pretty solid.

The problem is our lack of a 'superstar' go-to scorer and 'rim protection'. You are right that our record is probably a little deceiving, but the main reason for that is we are totally unable to close out a game - like worst I've ever seen, bad. This can really only be corrected with the acquisition of our next Paul Pierce.

I don't quite see how you jump to that solution as the only means of correction. 

The problem, from my perspective, in some of our late game collapses hasn't stemmed from a lack of talent to get it done, but rather from what looks like a team that has been getting tight and playing nervous in those situations.

That's the good news.  It's good news, because it doesn't mean we can't win those games.  It means we have to learn how to. 

[Celtics4ever]

Definitely depends on how you define top ten.   For instance, I would wager money RR is not not top ten in scoring for his position.   Are any of them top ten in defense for their position?  Sully most definitely is not, I would say he is bottom ten for starting PF on defense.

[Celtics18]

Definitely depends on how you define top ten.   For instance, I would wager money RR is not not top ten in scoring for his position.   Are any of them top ten in defense for their position?  Sully most definitely is not, I would say he is bottom ten for starting PF on defense.

Sure, each of those players is not top ten at every facet of the game for his position.  I'm talking about being top ten overall. 

For example, I would say that Amir Johnson is probably a top ten defender at the power forward position.  I don't think I'd call him a more valuable all around player than Jared Sullinger, though. 

[Chris22]

Bwha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,haaaaa......

[mgent]

Definitely depends on how you define top ten.   For instance, I would wager money RR is not not top ten in scoring for his position.   Are any of them top ten in defense for their position?  Sully most definitely is not, I would say he is bottom ten for starting PF on defense.

Pretty sure he was talking about all those things put together.  You know, top ten overall?  That's usually someone's default meaning whenthey don't specify.

[BballTim]

Maybe a little optimistic, but I will agree that we actually have very decent mid-level talent on our team. Also, our bench is actually pretty solid.

The problem is our lack of a 'superstar' go-to scorer and 'rim protection'. You are right that our record is probably a little deceiving, but the main reason for that is we are totally unable to close out a game - like worst I've ever seen, bad. This can really only be corrected with the acquisition of our next Paul Pierce.

  One could argue that the reason we lost the finals in 2010 was the lack of a 'superstar' go-to scorer. We still got to the finals that year, into the second round the next season and almost made it to the finals in 2012.

[chambers]

Well I'm not sure about Sully. I mean he's on the fringe of being a top 10 PF and I have no doubt he'll get there one day, but the PF is a stacked position in the NBA. Overall I doubt he's a top 10 PF just yet.
Green is around the 8th, 9th or 10th best SF?
Rondo has had an abysmal year. I mean his 7.5 rebounds and 11 assists are nice but jesus:
8.6 points per game on a career low 43% shooting, with 26% from 3 point land and a career low 30% from the line. Throw in his patchy defense and it's fair to say he's no where near being a top 20 player as we reach the 20 game mark or 25% of the season. I'm sure he'll get better but I'm shocked at how bad some aspects of his game have been.

Look at it another way...given the way we've played, do we have any All Stars on our team?
Do we have a top 20 player? Do we have a top 30 player?


And that bench you listed with the great Phil Pressey and Evan Turner is not what I'd call solid. It's barely holding on to life support.

We have to thank lord Ainge for hiring Saint Stevens or this would be a trainwreck.
Stevens is 50% of this team and it's simply amazing what he's done with such a horrificly unbalanced roster.

[chambers]

Maybe a little optimistic, but I will agree that we actually have very decent mid-level talent on our team. Also, our bench is actually pretty solid.

The problem is our lack of a 'superstar' go-to scorer and 'rim protection'. You are right that our record is probably a little deceiving, but the main reason for that is we are totally unable to close out a game - like worst I've ever seen, bad. This can really only be corrected with the acquisition of our next Paul Pierce.

  One could argue that the reason we lost the finals in 2010 was the lack of a 'superstar' go-to scorer. We still got to the finals that year, into the second round the next season and almost made it to the finals in 2012.

The reason we lost in the 2010 finals was because our superstar was playing on one leg.
He still had 3 All Star team mates including the greatest 3 point shooter of all time, a finals MVP and Celtics legend and top 10 player.

I don't think you can fairly use the 2010 team in any kind of comparison or argument to this team.

2012 was a freakish 7 game series by Rondo that even you'd admit-we'll probably never see again. He was a superstar for that Miami series- a top 5 NBA player.

Comparisons to those teams with this current squad are almost insulting in a way.

[obnoxiousmime]

The problem with a "top ten" list is that it doesn't account for the differences in talent between players, just how they would rank. It's possible that 1-2 are MVP-caliber players, then 3-6 are the next level, the multiple all-star level. 7-9 are the guys who make the all-star team a couple times in their career but are not regulars. Finally 10-16 are talented guys who have long careers but aren't quite stars. Between each tier there could be huge gaps in ability. The 10th best SF for example might be a closer in talent to the 20th best SF than the 1st.

Looking at the top SFs, the depth is not there so Green is probably in there around 7-10. However, I'm not sure what kind of conclusions you can reach from that because the drop off is so steep.

Top SFs (rough ranking):

1. LeBron James
Kevin Durant
Carmelo Anthony
Kawhi Leonard
Rudy Gay
Nicholas Batum
Gordon Hayward
Chandler Parsons
Jeff Green
Trevor Ariza
Kyle Korver
12. Luol Deng

I would probably put LBJ and Durant in the top tier, obviously. Carmelo is in the 2nd tier by himself, with Kawhi and Gay in the 3rd tier. After that you have about 5 or more guys that are roughly similar in value, though of course that is subjective. The thing about that group of guys is if they are the number 1 or 2 options on their team, the team is probably bad. Of course, some of the players on the list are still quite young.

Ok Power Forwards (again, a rough ranking):

1. Anthony Davis
DeMarcus Cousins
Kevin Love
LaMarcus Aldridge
Tim Duncan
Chris Bosh
Blake Griffin
Dirk Nowitzki
Al Jefferson
Serge Ibaka
Paul Millsap
12. Derrick Favors

Looking at this list, I guess you meant Bradley is a top 10 SG? I don't really see Sullinger as being better than these 12 players, at least not yet.

SG:

1. James Harden
Kobe Bryant
Klay Thompson
Dwayne Wade
Dragic or Bledsoe depending on who you consider SG
DeMar DeRozan
Monta Ellis
Jimmy Butler
Wesley Matthews
Bradley Beal
Danny Green
Lance Stephenson
Victor Oladipo
Joe Johnson
15. Jamal Crawford

I guess if you really tried you could squeeze Bradley somewhere into a top ten with that group of players, if you consider his defense to be the additional skill to push him ahead. Personally I think his defense has dropped off and is now a little overrated.

Anyway I guess I sound a little negative but I don't feel like we have three "top ten" starters, and even if we did it just goes to show that once you get into the teens the talent drop off is significant. Actually I'm not even sure if such a statement necessarily means anything - you could even take it to be negative: "Three of our starters are ONLY in the top ten at their position."

It could all just be a different way of saying "We really, really need two top-5 players at their position to make all these other top-10 guys on our team look better."

EDIT: Sorry, I did read your original post but forgot that you did mean Sullinger and not Bradley.

[BballTim]

Well I'm not sure about Sully. I mean he's on the fringe of being a top 10 PF and I have no doubt he'll get there one day, but the PF is a stacked position in the NBA. Overall I doubt he's a top 10 PF just yet.
Green is around the 8th, 9th or 10th best SF?
Rondo has had an abysmal year. I mean his 7.5 rebounds and 11 assists are nice but jesus:
8.6 points per game on a career low 43% shooting, with 26% from 3 point land and a career low 30% from the line. Throw in his patchy defense and it's fair to say he's no where near being a top 20 player as we reach the 20 game mark or 25% of the season. I'm sure he'll get better but I'm shocked at how bad some aspects of his game have been.

  His scoring's been off, and his defense was bad at the beginning of the season but it's been fine since. He's had some bad turnovers (many of the "I'm not used to playing with this guy" variety) but abysmal is an overstatement.

[dreamgreen]

Sorry but this is flat out ridiculous! If our players are that good why does this team suck? It is the worse second half team I've ever seen period.

[Celtics18]

Sorry but this is flat out ridiculous! If our players are that good why does this team suck? It is the worse second half team I've ever seen period.

We've been pretty bad in the second half.  We have the talent to improve on that.

[BballTim]

Maybe a little optimistic, but I will agree that we actually have very decent mid-level talent on our team. Also, our bench is actually pretty solid.

The problem is our lack of a 'superstar' go-to scorer and 'rim protection'. You are right that our record is probably a little deceiving, but the main reason for that is we are totally unable to close out a game - like worst I've ever seen, bad. This can really only be corrected with the acquisition of our next Paul Pierce.

  One could argue that the reason we lost the finals in 2010 was the lack of a 'superstar' go-to scorer. We still got to the finals that year, into the second round the next season and almost made it to the finals in 2012.

The reason we lost in the 2010 finals was because our superstar was playing on one leg.
He still had 3 All Star team mates including the greatest 3 point shooter of all time, a finals MVP and Celtics legend and top 10 player.

  PP wasn't a top 10 player in 2010. And our superstar was playing on one leg, but he had been playing on one leg for the entire playoffs, when we beat 2 of the best teams in the league led by the best and 2nd or 3rd best players in the league.

I don't think you can fairly use the 2010 team in any kind of comparison or argument to this team.

  I didn't.

2012 was a freakish 7 game series by Rondo that even you'd admit-we'll probably never see again. He was a superstar for that Miami series- a top 5 NBA player.

  Yes, Rondo's 21/7/11 was phenomenal. But what had we seen from him before that?

  17/6/12
  19/7/12
  21/6/12
  19/9/12

  It's not like his play in that series was the rarity you think it was. It wasn't even his best series, the 2010 Cavs series was. I don't see why it's so out of the question that someone who's had 5 playoff series of 17+ points, 6+ rebounds and 11+ assists who's still in the middle of his prime would ever be able to play at that level again.