Author Topic: More lineup changes coming?  (Read 7734 times)

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Re: More lineup changes coming?
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2014, 01:58:56 PM »

Offline MBunge

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The thing is, it's not just the unit that finishes the fourth quarter that is playing bad, it's pretty much all units that play in the fourth. Not sure what kind of substitutions will help if all your players are playing poorly in the fourth.

Smart will certainly help when he comes back.
Yeah the bench heavy units at the start of the fourth get the basketbawful started and the starters close the deal....

I think it starts mainly in the third. They get tired and stop pushing the pace, and that's exactly when the tide starts to turn.

I think it's partly fatigue but mostly because that's when the playoff-caliber teams we keep playing stop coasting and start ratcheting up their intensity.  We get steadily overwhelmed until we're struggling to just get a shot off late.

But why aren't they also coasting against Detroit, Orlando, etc?  Charlotte's lost a bunch of big leads this season too, but bad teams usually never have those against good teams.  With both us and Charlotte, it seems as though there's something going on besides not being very good.

Mike

Re: More lineup changes coming?
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2014, 02:56:11 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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The thing is, it's not just the unit that finishes the fourth quarter that is playing bad, it's pretty much all units that play in the fourth. Not sure what kind of substitutions will help if all your players are playing poorly in the fourth.

Smart will certainly help when he comes back.
Yeah the bench heavy units at the start of the fourth get the basketbawful started and the starters close the deal....

I think it starts mainly in the third. They get tired and stop pushing the pace, and that's exactly when the tide starts to turn.

I think it's partly fatigue but mostly because that's when the playoff-caliber teams we keep playing stop coasting and start ratcheting up their intensity.  We get steadily overwhelmed until we're struggling to just get a shot off late.

But why aren't they also coasting against Detroit, Orlando, etc?  Charlotte's lost a bunch of big leads this season too, but bad teams usually never have those against good teams.  With both us and Charlotte, it seems as though there's something going on besides not being very good.

Mike

I kind of agree with you in the sense that it's not us not being very good and other teams playing down to us. I think we're better than most people give us credit for when we play our game, which is pace and space and running the ball. In the first half of games we almost always outplay the other team because we employ this strategy. When the game gets tighter, it slows down and we lose what makes us halfway decent. Of course, that's merely a season way to play not playoffs, and we'd probably get killed in the playoffs in the halfcourt set.
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Re: More lineup changes coming?
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2014, 03:31:43 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
The thing is, it's not just the unit that finishes the fourth quarter that is playing bad, it's pretty much all units that play in the fourt

It is how the other team is playing.   Our guys are only stay with them for three because the other teams know they can play sloppy for 36 minutes and play hard for 12 minutes and still win.  We can hang with them when they are throwing their knockout punches and punch back.

We also have some guys who are not true professionals and keep their body in the best shape.   Playing in shape is for the birds, be in shape as a true professional before the season begins.


Re: More lineup changes coming?
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2014, 04:11:56 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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The thing is, it's not just the unit that finishes the fourth quarter that is playing bad, it's pretty much all units that play in the fourth. Not sure what kind of substitutions will help if all your players are playing poorly in the fourth.

Smart will certainly help when he comes back.
Yeah the bench heavy units at the start of the fourth get the basketbawful started and the starters close the deal....

I think it starts mainly in the third. They get tired and stop pushing the pace, and that's exactly when the tide starts to turn.

I think it's partly fatigue but mostly because that's when the playoff-caliber teams we keep playing stop coasting and start ratcheting up their intensity.  We get steadily overwhelmed until we're struggling to just get a shot off late.

But why aren't they also coasting against Detroit, Orlando, etc?  Charlotte's lost a bunch of big leads this season too, but bad teams usually never have those against good teams.  With both us and Charlotte, it seems as though there's something going on besides not being very good.


Subjectively, I think both of those teams (Detroit/Orlando) really are worse than we are.  More objectively, we're definitely better at scoring than either one, and high scoring teams are more likely to have bigger leads when they're playing well.  Haven't seen enough of Charlotte to comment on them, though.

Re: More lineup changes coming?
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2014, 04:57:54 PM »

Offline DesertDweller

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Rondo is too outspoken and it's either his way or the highway which means the only way he fits is with another team and I mean the sooner the better. get rid of him for those important pieces we need NOW,  before it's too late. this guy will go from being worth a fortune,  to worthless in a heartbeat!!!  I personally think it's already too late.

Re: More lineup changes coming?
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2014, 06:01:34 PM »

Online Vermont Green

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I don't know what Stevens can do.  In terms of benching Rondo, it is kind of [dang]ed if you do, [dang]ed if you don't.  The only current alternative would be to go with a back court of Bradley and Turner down the stretch and I can't say that it would be any better (maybe).  When Smart gets back, that could be an option but I think it is unlikely we would see that.

Rondo is our guy; our best player; is going to attract top free agents to the team; our best trade asset.  It would be kind of crazy to not play Rondo at the end of games for all kinds of reasons.  I am afraid we have to live and die with Rondo for however long he is on the team.

Re: More lineup changes coming?
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2014, 07:35:55 PM »

Offline tstorey_97

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Vermont is correct. Stevens won't bench Rondo...obviously as he is his best player. The fourth quarter gacks have been in full swing since last year. They are nothing new. Our starters get tired at the end of games. This is normal. The games become half court and fully "iso centric" as that is the NBA.

The Celtics are not a half court team. They do not have the bones. It is mismatch after mismatch.
This is what Ainge has given us as he is shooting for a top 5 seven footer in the draft.

Listen to me...Ainge must have told Stevens to start KO at center, otherwise, why would he? Stevens, I feel is doing what be can with what he's got, which isn't much.

As far as your post, Turner can run around and create a shot. He can also hit a free throw. Putting a game into Turner's hands is going to generate a lot of wacky endings to games, perhaps he might win a few, but, not many.

The opposing team puts their best guy on Green...obviously and then? What else is there? Bradley has never been a late game shooter...ever. Sully is too slow and is usually covered by a longer guy and the team appears to be capitulating the center position.

Pushing the ball late in the game? How? With who? A bad set of match ups with the starters just get worse with the back ups.

What our guys must do, is push for as long as possible and get some kind of lead in the fourth. The final five minute "man a mano" stuff just is not going to work...ever. If they have even a small advantage late, it puts pressure on the opponent and helps their cause.

This might explain Stevens' push for 3 pointers. Five minutes to go and "so and so" hits four threes in a row? Might win the darn game.

Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic....ask Captain Danny as he steers the ship straight for the nearest iceberg.

Re: More lineup changes coming?
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2014, 07:38:09 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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I don't know what Stevens can do.  In terms of benching Rondo, it is kind of [dang]ed if you do, [dang]ed if you don't.  The only current alternative would be to go with a back court of Bradley and Turner down the stretch and I can't say that it would be any better (maybe).  When Smart gets back, that could be an option but I think it is unlikely we would see that.

Rondo is our guy; our best player; is going to attract top free agents to the team; our best trade asset.  It would be kind of crazy to not play Rondo at the end of games for all kinds of reasons.  I am afraid we have to live and die with Rondo for however long he is on the team.

Rondo able to bring in or attract FAs is highly overrated.  He was not able to bring in Carmelo . I mean what above average player has he been able to recruit?

Rondo can bring down another team if he likes. Not this team

Re: More lineup changes coming?
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2014, 09:08:43 PM »

Offline shrinkage36

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Well, I wasn't really trying to make this into a trash Rondo thread lol I was just trying to figure out who Stevens might be talking about with these late game scenarios, and, honestly, Rondo's fourth quarter woes in the last several games have made him the most obvious target.
Good thread, and something has to be done. You just can't let this team go out, and they show that they can hang with some of the best teams, yet down the stretch, some players are just not getting it done. If you're going to go down as a coach, go out your way.

Re: More lineup changes coming?
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2014, 09:14:40 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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When you throw them all in a bag and shake it up ......pour em out....

Result is the same ......

I really bad team ...

Re: More lineup changes coming?
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2014, 09:15:06 PM »

Offline rondohondo

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I don't know what Stevens can do.  In terms of benching Rondo, it is kind of [dang]ed if you do, [dang]ed if you don't.  The only current alternative would be to go with a back court of Bradley and Turner down the stretch and I can't say that it would be any better (maybe).  When Smart gets back, that could be an option but I think it is unlikely we would see that.

Rondo is our guy; our best player; is going to attract top free agents to the team; our best trade asset.  It would be kind of crazy to not play Rondo at the end of games for all kinds of reasons.  I am afraid we have to live and die with Rondo for however long he is on the team.

Rondo able to bring in or attract FAs is highly overrated.  He was not able to bring in Carmelo . I mean what above average player has he been able to recruit?

Rondo can bring down another team if he likes. Not this team

What are you even talking about? How could Rondo bring in Melo when we had no cap room? We haven't had cap room to sign a major free agent since Rondo has been here.

Re: More lineup changes coming?
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2014, 09:52:02 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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Vermont is correct. Stevens won't bench Rondo...obviously as he is his best player. The fourth quarter gacks have been in full swing since last year. They are nothing new. Our starters get tired at the end of games. This is normal. The games become half court and fully "iso centric" as that is the NBA.

The Celtics are not a half court team. They do not have the bones. It is mismatch after mismatch.
This is what Ainge has given us as he is shooting for a top 5 seven footer in the draft.

Listen to me...Ainge must have told Stevens to start KO at center, otherwise, why would he? Stevens, I feel is doing what be can with what he's got, which isn't much.

As far as your post, Turner can run around and create a shot. He can also hit a free throw. Putting a game into Turner's hands is going to generate a lot of wacky endings to games, perhaps he might win a few, but, not many.

The opposing team puts their best guy on Green...obviously and then? What else is there? Bradley has never been a late game shooter...ever. Sully is too slow and is usually covered by a longer guy and the team appears to be capitulating the center position.

Pushing the ball late in the game? How? With who? A bad set of match ups with the starters just get worse with the back ups.

What our guys must do, is push for as long as possible and get some kind of lead in the fourth. The final five minute "man a mano" stuff just is not going to work...ever. If they have even a small advantage late, it puts pressure on the opponent and helps their cause.

This might explain Stevens' push for 3 pointers. Five minutes to go and "so and so" hits four threes in a row? Might win the darn game.

Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic....ask Captain Danny as he steers the ship straight for the nearest iceberg top 5 draft pick.
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Re: More lineup changes coming?
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2014, 09:59:10 PM »

Offline 86MaxwellSmart

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Sad, but the more Rondo plays...the more his trade value decreases...which is the opposite of what I thought would happen.
Larry Bird was Greater than you think.

Re: More lineup changes coming?
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2014, 10:01:49 PM »

Offline greece66

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The thing is, it's not just the unit that finishes the fourth quarter that is playing bad, it's pretty much all units that play in the fourt

It is how the other team is playing.   Our guys are only stay with them for three because the other teams know they can play sloppy for 36 minutes and play hard for 12 minutes and still win. We can hang with them when they are throwing their knockout punches and punch back.

We also have some guys who are not true professionals and keep their body in the best shape.   Playing in shape is for the birds, be in shape as a true professional before the season begins.
Tru dat. The small margin defeats are misleading precisely because of what you say.
I just watched SAS winning Philly by 6 points. On paper it was a closely fought game, in reality Pop was experimenting with the depth of his roster.

Re: More lineup changes coming?
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2014, 10:55:22 PM »

Offline McHales Pits

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« Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 09:38:05 AM by McHales Pits »
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