Looks like Tommy can't take it anymore

[Roy H.]

[P]ace isn't only dependent on transition offense.

I'm surprised that this is a controversial point, but it seems as though it is.

It's not controversial, but it's off-topic for the discussion, which is about transition offense, and not pace at large.  Tommy wants the Celtics to get the ball across half-court faster and to attack the defense before it's set -- we're not talking about how quickly you take a shot out of a half-court offense.

It's more than just attacking the defense before its set.  Pushing the ball, even if it doesn't lead to fast-break points, allows you more time on the shot clock to work your offense, etc.

[saltlover]

[P]ace isn't only dependent on transition offense.

I'm surprised that this is a controversial point, but it seems as though it is.

It's not controversial, but it's off-topic for the discussion, which is about transition offense, and not pace at large.  Tommy wants the Celtics to get the ball across half-court faster and to attack the defense before it's set -- we're not talking about how quickly you take a shot out of a half-court offense.

It's more than just attacking the defense before its set.  Pushing the ball, even if it doesn't lead to fast-break points, allows you more time on the shot clock to work your offense, etc.

I get that, but from my watching of Tommy, that doesn't seem to be his point, which is why I think it's off-topic in this particular discussion.

[Celtics4ever]

shows how Rondo's playstyle(mentality) doesn't fit BS's motion offense-pace&space system, yet

Pushing the pace is a lot about getting the ball up fast for the reason mentioned above.

I think Rondo is an ideal push the pace PG, he is quick and can pass, trouble is he has albatrosses to run up the court with like KO and Sully, that are slow and not natural runners.

One guy is not to blame for the team being bad except Ainge.   He is the guy who called the rebuild.   We are not that good, guys are realizing it now, but some people picked us to be in the ECF.   That was delusional and to guys who did don't bet a lot or quit your day jobs.

[puskas54_10]

{Of Heinsohn's advice, Rondo said, "Just stay positive. Continue to push the pace -- in the fourth quarter we tend to walk the ball up the court. Myself, I was just sharing my thoughts about how it’s hard to push the pace when the ball’s going through the net every time. It’s just difficult. Like I said, it starts on the defensive end of the floor."}

So he knows where the problem is and tried to tell Rondo (not the first time obviously)
and Rondo, either is making excuses to not to do it, or he want's to but simply can't do it

I'm pretty sure the spurs pushs the pace almost everytime in the finals no matter it's a made basket or not, so it can be done, and that shows how Rondo's playstyle(mentality) doesn't fit BS's motion offense-pace&space system, yet

My only take away from this is that Rondo is doing what Rondo thinks is the best. You can say anything to him, and you can be anybody (even Tommy) he will do what he thinks is the best, not what coaches or respected former players say or just suggest. He's clearly not an easy player to deal with. He's a stobborn as a mule.The problem is he's not the superstar he thinks he is like younger Kobe or Lebron. So not worth the ado.

[puskas54_10]

{Of Heinsohn's advice, Rondo said, "Just stay positive. Continue to push the pace -- in the fourth quarter we tend to walk the ball up the court. Myself, I was just sharing my thoughts about how it’s hard to push the pace when the ball’s going through the net every time. It’s just difficult. Like I said, it starts on the defensive end of the floor."}

So he knows where the problem is and tried to tell Rondo (not the first time obviously)
and Rondo, either is making excuses to not to do it, or he want's to but simply can't do it

I'm pretty sure the spurs pushs the pace almost everytime in the finals no matter it's a made basket or not, so it can be done, and that shows how Rondo's playstyle(mentality) doesn't fit BS's motion offense-pace&space system, yet

My only take away from this is that Rondo is doing what Rondo thinks is the best. You can say anything to him, and you can be anybody (even Tommy) he will do what he thinks is the best, not what coaches or respected former players say or just suggest. He's a stobborn as a mule. He's clearly not an easy player to deal with. The problem is he's not the superstar he thinks he is like younger Kobe or Lebron. So not worth the ado.

To admins: It's kinda a double post, so please delete because it's redundant.

[sed522002]

{Of Heinsohn's advice, Rondo said, "Just stay positive. Continue to push the pace -- in the fourth quarter we tend to walk the ball up the court. Myself, I was just sharing my thoughts about how it’s hard to push the pace when the ball’s going through the net every time. It’s just difficult. Like I said, it starts on the defensive end of the floor."}

So he knows where the problem is and tried to tell Rondo (not the first time obviously)
and Rondo, either is making excuses to not to do it, or he want's to but simply can't do it

I'm pretty sure the spurs pushs the pace almost everytime in the finals no matter it's a made basket or not, so it can be done, and that shows how Rondo's playstyle(mentality) doesn't fit BS's motion offense-pace&space system, yet

My only take away from this is that Rondo is doing what Rondo thinks is the best. You can say anything to him, and you can be anybody (even Tommy) he will do what he thinks is the best, not what coaches or respected former players say or just suggest. He's clearly not an easy player to deal with. He's a stobborn as a mule.The problem is he's not the superstar he thinks he is like younger Kobe or Lebron. So not worth the ado.

Hmm..well from the quotes he gave (I posted them on page 2) seems to say the opposite of what you think.

"Tommy is a guy I've been talking to since Day One," Rondo said. "He's been a big fan of mine and I believe in what he's done here in the past. He's done it all. Anytime a guy like Tommy wants to share something, I always try to listen."

"He's the biggest supporter here," Rondo said of Heinsohn. "He's here every night, at every home game. He's rooting for us. He wants the best for our team. And he had some good advice for me. I'm going to take it and share that with my guys and figure some things out."

[rondohondo]

{Of Heinsohn's advice, Rondo said, "Just stay positive. Continue to push the pace -- in the fourth quarter we tend to walk the ball up the court. Myself, I was just sharing my thoughts about how it’s hard to push the pace when the ball’s going through the net every time. It’s just difficult. Like I said, it starts on the defensive end of the floor."}

So he knows where the problem is and tried to tell Rondo (not the first time obviously)
and Rondo, either is making excuses to not to do it, or he want's to but simply can't do it

I'm pretty sure the spurs pushs the pace almost everytime in the finals no matter it's a made basket or not, so it can be done, and that shows how Rondo's playstyle(mentality) doesn't fit BS's motion offense-pace&space system, yet

My only take away from this is that Rondo is doing what Rondo thinks is the best. You can say anything to him, and you can be anybody (even Tommy) he will do what he thinks is the best, not what coaches or respected former players say or just suggest. He's clearly not an easy player to deal with. He's a stobborn as a mule.The problem is he's not the superstar he thinks he is like younger Kobe or Lebron. So not worth the ado.

Hmm..well from the quotes he gave (I posted them on page 2) seems to say the opposite of what you think.

"Tommy is a guy I've been talking to since Day One," Rondo said. "He's been a big fan of mine and I believe in what he's done here in the past. He's done it all. Anytime a guy like Tommy wants to share something, I always try to listen."

"He's the biggest supporter here," Rondo said of Heinsohn. "He's here every night, at every home game. He's rooting for us. He wants the best for our team. And he had some good advice for me. I'm going to take it and share that with my guys and figure some things out."

no I don't believe anything Rondo says , he is a liar and team cancer

trade him for a 2nd round pick

[sed522002]

no I don't believe anything Rondo says , he is a liar and team cancer

trade him for a 2nd round pick

 

[puskas54_10]

{Of Heinsohn's advice, Rondo said, "Just stay positive. Continue to push the pace -- in the fourth quarter we tend to walk the ball up the court. Myself, I was just sharing my thoughts about how it’s hard to push the pace when the ball’s going through the net every time. It’s just difficult. Like I said, it starts on the defensive end of the floor."}

So he knows where the problem is and tried to tell Rondo (not the first time obviously)
and Rondo, either is making excuses to not to do it, or he want's to but simply can't do it

I'm pretty sure the spurs pushs the pace almost everytime in the finals no matter it's a made basket or not, so it can be done, and that shows how Rondo's playstyle(mentality) doesn't fit BS's motion offense-pace&space system, yet

My only take away from this is that Rondo is doing what Rondo thinks is the best. You can say anything to him, and you can be anybody (even Tommy) he will do what he thinks is the best, not what coaches or respected former players say or just suggest. He's clearly not an easy player to deal with. He's a stobborn as a mule.The problem is he's not the superstar he thinks he is like younger Kobe or Lebron. So not worth the ado.

Hmm..well from the quotes he gave (I posted them on page 2) seems to say the opposite of what you think.

"Tommy is a guy I've been talking to since Day One," Rondo said. "He's been a big fan of mine and I believe in what he's done here in the past. He's done it all. Anytime a guy like Tommy wants to share something, I always try to listen."

"He's the biggest supporter here," Rondo said of Heinsohn. "He's here every night, at every home game. He's rooting for us. He wants the best for our team. And he had some good advice for me. I'm going to take it and share that with my guys and figure some things out."

I know Rondo the player pretty well. As a Ray Allen fan I eagerly watched this team since 2007, even after Ray left. He will do what he wants and thinks is best. He's not a mean guy off the field I bet, so he says respectful things to Tommy, but he really don't give a crap, he will do his things on the court as he wants. No Big 3 anymore to take a backseat. It's his show.

[rondohondo]

{Of Heinsohn's advice, Rondo said, "Just stay positive. Continue to push the pace -- in the fourth quarter we tend to walk the ball up the court. Myself, I was just sharing my thoughts about how it’s hard to push the pace when the ball’s going through the net every time. It’s just difficult. Like I said, it starts on the defensive end of the floor."}

So he knows where the problem is and tried to tell Rondo (not the first time obviously)
and Rondo, either is making excuses to not to do it, or he want's to but simply can't do it

I'm pretty sure the spurs pushs the pace almost everytime in the finals no matter it's a made basket or not, so it can be done, and that shows how Rondo's playstyle(mentality) doesn't fit BS's motion offense-pace&space system, yet

My only take away from this is that Rondo is doing what Rondo thinks is the best. You can say anything to him, and you can be anybody (even Tommy) he will do what he thinks is the best, not what coaches or respected former players say or just suggest. He's clearly not an easy player to deal with. He's a stobborn as a mule.The problem is he's not the superstar he thinks he is like younger Kobe or Lebron. So not worth the ado.

Hmm..well from the quotes he gave (I posted them on page 2) seems to say the opposite of what you think.

"Tommy is a guy I've been talking to since Day One," Rondo said. "He's been a big fan of mine and I believe in what he's done here in the past. He's done it all. Anytime a guy like Tommy wants to share something, I always try to listen."

"He's the biggest supporter here," Rondo said of Heinsohn. "He's here every night, at every home game. He's rooting for us. He wants the best for our team. And he had some good advice for me. I'm going to take it and share that with my guys and figure some things out."

I know Rondo the player pretty well. As a Ray Allen fan I eagerly watched this team since 2007, even after Ray left. He will do what he wants and thinks is best. He's not a mean guy off the field I bet, so he says respectful things to Tommy, but he really don't give a crap, he will do his things on the court as he wants. No Big 3 anymore to take a backseat. It's his show.

So I guess that's why he gave the ball to Smart to run the offense when he crossed half court on multiple occasions . Or Turner and Green . He sets KO up for open threes that he just passes on ,but it all comes back to Rondo's selfishness, I see....

[puskas54_10]

{Of Heinsohn's advice, Rondo said, "Just stay positive. Continue to push the pace -- in the fourth quarter we tend to walk the ball up the court. Myself, I was just sharing my thoughts about how it’s hard to push the pace when the ball’s going through the net every time. It’s just difficult. Like I said, it starts on the defensive end of the floor."}

So he knows where the problem is and tried to tell Rondo (not the first time obviously)
and Rondo, either is making excuses to not to do it, or he want's to but simply can't do it

I'm pretty sure the spurs pushs the pace almost everytime in the finals no matter it's a made basket or not, so it can be done, and that shows how Rondo's playstyle(mentality) doesn't fit BS's motion offense-pace&space system, yet

My only take away from this is that Rondo is doing what Rondo thinks is the best. You can say anything to him, and you can be anybody (even Tommy) he will do what he thinks is the best, not what coaches or respected former players say or just suggest. He's clearly not an easy player to deal with. He's a stobborn as a mule.The problem is he's not the superstar he thinks he is like younger Kobe or Lebron. So not worth the ado.

Hmm..well from the quotes he gave (I posted them on page 2) seems to say the opposite of what you think.

"Tommy is a guy I've been talking to since Day One," Rondo said. "He's been a big fan of mine and I believe in what he's done here in the past. He's done it all. Anytime a guy like Tommy wants to share something, I always try to listen."

"He's the biggest supporter here," Rondo said of Heinsohn. "He's here every night, at every home game. He's rooting for us. He wants the best for our team. And he had some good advice for me. I'm going to take it and share that with my guys and figure some things out."

I know Rondo the player pretty well. As a Ray Allen fan I eagerly watched this team since 2007, even after Ray left. He will do what he wants and thinks is best. He's not a mean guy off the field I bet, so he says respectful things to Tommy, but he really don't give a crap, he will do his things on the court as he wants. No Big 3 anymore to take a backseat. It's his show.

So I guess that's why he gave the ball to Smart to run the offense when he crossed half court on multiple occasions . Or Turner and Green . He sets KO up for open threes that he just passes on ,but it all comes back to Rondo's selfishness, I see....

He's not selfish. He just thinks he's above other players on the team. He gave up the ball because he thought that's the best option, if Smart will fail to generate offense in Rondo's book he will get the ball fewer. The point is: Rondo does what he believes the best for the team, not what the coach says.

[Beat LA]

Well, starting Zeller will certainly help the running game, but things are bound to slow down eventually when two of your biggest contributors are Sully and KO lol.  It's not like we have KG to outrun every big guy down the court anymore, so we have to make do with what we have. 

I get what Tommy is saying, especially in the latter stages of the game, because watching everybody slow it down and only start anything with 12-14 seconds to go is beyond frustrating, but it happened when KG, Pierce, and Ray were here as well, so this is nothing new.  Tommy is of the mindset that if you keep pushing the pace the entire game, teams will break down in the 4th quarter, and that is true, but we don't have the personnel necessary to implement such a philosophy, imo, and even if we did, it won't always work if your opponent is deep.  Still, you can observe the substitution patterns of the other team and prematurely get someone in there to just break their matchup by running him to death, but I really wish that we'd learn how to score in the half court with no pick and rolls.  Do something different for a change.  Use Zeller at the end of a game to get ahead of the defense to create a transition pick and roll, which is great to use if you can't get a traditional fast break because 1).  The defense isn't set, and 2).  At the very least, the matchups will be totally out of wack, and, since you hurried up the court so quickly, you can exploit one in the post and then go around the horn when the double team comes.  Sigh.

[Monkhouse]

{Of Heinsohn's advice, Rondo said, "Just stay positive. Continue to push the pace -- in the fourth quarter we tend to walk the ball up the court. Myself, I was just sharing my thoughts about how it’s hard to push the pace when the ball’s going through the net every time. It’s just difficult. Like I said, it starts on the defensive end of the floor."}

So he knows where the problem is and tried to tell Rondo (not the first time obviously)
and Rondo, either is making excuses to not to do it, or he want's to but simply can't do it

I'm pretty sure the spurs pushs the pace almost everytime in the finals no matter it's a made basket or not, so it can be done, and that shows how Rondo's playstyle(mentality) doesn't fit BS's motion offense-pace&space system, yet

My only take away from this is that Rondo is doing what Rondo thinks is the best. You can say anything to him, and you can be anybody (even Tommy) he will do what he thinks is the best, not what coaches or respected former players say or just suggest. He's clearly not an easy player to deal with. He's a stobborn as a mule.The problem is he's not the superstar he thinks he is like younger Kobe or Lebron. So not worth the ado.

Hmm..well from the quotes he gave (I posted them on page 2) seems to say the opposite of what you think.

"Tommy is a guy I've been talking to since Day One," Rondo said. "He's been a big fan of mine and I believe in what he's done here in the past. He's done it all. Anytime a guy like Tommy wants to share something, I always try to listen."

"He's the biggest supporter here," Rondo said of Heinsohn. "He's here every night, at every home game. He's rooting for us. He wants the best for our team. And he had some good advice for me. I'm going to take it and share that with my guys and figure some things out."

I know Rondo the player pretty well. As a Ray Allen fan I eagerly watched this team since 2007, even after Ray left. He will do what he wants and thinks is best. He's not a mean guy off the field I bet, so he says respectful things to Tommy, but he really don't give a crap, he will do his things on the court as he wants. No Big 3 anymore to take a backseat. It's his show.

So I guess that's why he gave the ball to Smart to run the offense when he crossed half court on multiple occasions . Or Turner and Green . He sets KO up for open threes that he just passes on ,but it all comes back to Rondo's selfishness, I see....

He's not selfish. He just thinks he's above other players on the team. He gave up the ball because he thought that's the best option, if smart will fail to generate offense in Rondo's book he will get the ball fewer. The point is: Rondo does what he believes the best for the team, not what the coach says.

Ummmm and you know this how?...

Do you by any chance have connections to CBS? Where are your facts? Also if Smart didn't make it, then Rondo would try to find a man that can or has a better look.. It's called having high BBIQ which Rondo has..

Also can't believe I read the word selfish and Rondo in the same sentence.. Back up your statements with stats and quotes..

[Beat LA]

{Of Heinsohn's advice, Rondo said, "Just stay positive. Continue to push the pace -- in the fourth quarter we tend to walk the ball up the court. Myself, I was just sharing my thoughts about how it’s hard to push the pace when the ball’s going through the net every time. It’s just difficult. Like I said, it starts on the defensive end of the floor."}

So he knows where the problem is and tried to tell Rondo (not the first time obviously)
and Rondo, either is making excuses to not to do it, or he want's to but simply can't do it

I'm pretty sure the spurs pushs the pace almost everytime in the finals no matter it's a made basket or not, so it can be done, and that shows how Rondo's playstyle(mentality) doesn't fit BS's motion offense-pace&space system, yet

My only take away from this is that Rondo is doing what Rondo thinks is the best. You can say anything to him, and you can be anybody (even Tommy) he will do what he thinks is the best, not what coaches or respected former players say or just suggest. He's clearly not an easy player to deal with. He's a stobborn as a mule.The problem is he's not the superstar he thinks he is like younger Kobe or Lebron. So not worth the ado.

Hmm..well from the quotes he gave (I posted them on page 2) seems to say the opposite of what you think.

"Tommy is a guy I've been talking to since Day One," Rondo said. "He's been a big fan of mine and I believe in what he's done here in the past. He's done it all. Anytime a guy like Tommy wants to share something, I always try to listen."

"He's the biggest supporter here," Rondo said of Heinsohn. "He's here every night, at every home game. He's rooting for us. He wants the best for our team. And he had some good advice for me. I'm going to take it and share that with my guys and figure some things out."

I know Rondo the player pretty well. As a Ray Allen fan I eagerly watched this team since 2007, even after Ray left. He will do what he wants and thinks is best. He's not a mean guy off the field I bet, so he says respectful things to Tommy, but he really don't give a crap, he will do his things on the court as he wants. No Big 3 anymore to take a backseat. It's his show.

So I guess that's why he gave the ball to Smart to run the offense when he crossed half court on multiple occasions . Or Turner and Green . He sets KO up for open threes that he just passes on ,but it all comes back to Rondo's selfishness, I see....

He's not selfish. He just thinks he's above other players on the team. He gave up the ball because he thought that's the best option, if Smart will fail to generate offense in Rondo's book he will get the ball fewer. The point is: Rondo does what he believes the best for the team, not what the coach says.

If any part of that last sentence was true, why has he adhered to what Stevens is calling for him to do out there this season?

[DesertDweller]

Please let us not forget the many missed Rondo layups and the consequences of the free throws that follow!!!  how about those overdone Globetrotter passes that end in more embarrassment then points. and those wonderful lackadaisical passes that are picked off and stuffed in opponents basket.

Rondo just does not belong in the game for the last 5 minutes, period!!!