Rondo has been looking bad in crunch time

[hwangjini_1]

I dont know why he settled for contested midrange jumpers in the 4th..
in crunch time we should go to green or sully, maybe turner or thornton if they are hot

i am not disagreeing, just pondering the choice to shoot by rondo. totally anecdotal, but i remember in recent games that the defense has left him open, daring him to shot by giving him space. rondo may have decided that the odds of him making an open shot are greater than those for green or sully making a contested shot.

now, it seems that the decision may not be correct, but it is understandable.

[Smitty77]

You can't win with a point guard who can't shoot, especially can't shoot free throws.  That's indisputable.  Right now he's 9 for 26 for the year.  He can't be left on the floor at the end of games--the C's will need Banks or Pressey at PG, so how valuable can Rondo be? 

He's also a ball pounder at crunch time.

The C's should trade him for whatever they can get and also rid themselves of a clubhouse problem.

Actually we won our one and only championship in the last 25 years with this very PG.

I bet you money Rondo was not in the game the last 5 minutes of many of those games.

In fact they probably put in Eddie House to finish games.

FACTS from the 2008 NBA Finals:

Game 1:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=280605002&period=4

Game 2:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=280608002&period=4

Game 3:  Rondo got into some late foul trouble and evidently was not in the final 5 minutes

Game 5:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=280615013&period=4  -- Rondo was in during the last minute, but didn't play much overall in the game due to poor play.

Game 6:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=280617002&period=4

Check out Rondo's box score in our clenching game 6:

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=280617002 

FACTS from the 2010 Finals:

Game 1:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=300603013&period=4

Game 2:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=300606013&period=4  -- notice how RR CARRIED us in crunch time

Game 3:  http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=300608002  -- played 42 minutes, but in some late foul trouble

Game 4:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=300610002&period=4  -- re-entered game around 2:50 to go

Game 5:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=300613002&period=4  -- played big in last minutes

Game 6:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=300615013

Game 7:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=300617013&period=4  ---  RR makes three pointer with 27 seconds to go

I just thought that it might be worthwhile to go back to the actual box scores rather than trusting someone's assumptions based on their memories!!!!!

Smitty77

[Eddie20]

You can't win with a point guard who can't shoot, especially can't shoot free throws.  That's indisputable.  Right now he's 9 for 26 for the year.  He can't be left on the floor at the end of games--the C's will need Banks or Pressey at PG, so how valuable can Rondo be? 

He's also a ball pounder at crunch time.

The C's should trade him for whatever they can get and also rid themselves of a clubhouse problem.

Actually we won our one and only championship in the last 25 years with this very PG.

I bet you money Rondo was not in the game the last 5 minutes of many of those games.

In fact they probably put in Eddie House to finish games.

FACTS from the 2008 NBA Finals:

Game 1:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=280605002&period=4

Game 2:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=280608002&period=4

Game 3:  Rondo got into some late foul trouble and evidently was not in the final 5 minutes

Game 5:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=280615013&period=4  -- Rondo was in during the last minute, but didn't play much overall in the game due to poor play.

Game 6:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=280617002&period=4

Check out Rondo's box score in our clenching game 6:

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=280617002 

FACTS from the 2010 Finals:

Game 1:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=300603013&period=4

Game 2:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=300606013&period=4  -- notice how RR CARRIED us in crunch time

Game 3:  http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=300608002  -- played 42 minutes, but in some late foul trouble

Game 4:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=300610002&period=4  -- re-entered game around 2:50 to go

Game 5:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=300613002&period=4  -- played big in last minutes

Game 6:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=300615013

Game 7:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=300617013&period=4  ---  RR makes three pointer with 27 seconds to go

I just thought that it might be worthwhile to go back to the actual box scores rather than trusting someone's assumptions based on their memories!!!!!

Smitty77

Our toughest series that season was during the 08 ECSF vs the Cavs

This is the amount of playing time Rondo received during the 4Q of that epic series:

1. 8 seconds
2. 1 min 4 seconds
3. did not play in the 4Q
4. 3 min 56 seconds
5. 12 minutes
6. 6 min 52 seconds
7. 10 minutes

vs LAL

1. 5 min 48 seconds
2. 12 minutes
3. 3 min 34 seconds (he had 4 fouls the entire game)
4. did not play in the 4Q (you excluded this game from your post)
5. 26 seconds (game was practically lost when he entered, barring a total collapse, with LA up 5)
6. 4 min 59 seconds

During the 2010 Finals he played a lot, but didn't play well. That's the series Kobe was playing free safety, doubling off him, and daring him to shoot.

Rondo shot 45.4% from the field, 26.3% from the line (yes, 26.3%! 5 for 19), and 33.3% from 3's. His assists were also way down (7.6) despite the heavy minutes 38.8.

[Smitty77]

You can't win with a point guard who can't shoot, especially can't shoot free throws.  That's indisputable.  Right now he's 9 for 26 for the year.  He can't be left on the floor at the end of games--the C's will need Banks or Pressey at PG, so how valuable can Rondo be? 

He's also a ball pounder at crunch time.

The C's should trade him for whatever they can get and also rid themselves of a clubhouse problem.

Actually we won our one and only championship in the last 25 years with this very PG.

I bet you money Rondo was not in the game the last 5 minutes of many of those games.

In fact they probably put in Eddie House to finish games.

FACTS from the 2008 NBA Finals:

Game 1:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=280605002&period=4

Game 2:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=280608002&period=4

Game 3:  Rondo got into some late foul trouble and evidently was not in the final 5 minutes

Game 5:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=280615013&period=4  -- Rondo was in during the last minute, but didn't play much overall in the game due to poor play.

Game 6:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=280617002&period=4

Check out Rondo's box score in our clenching game 6:

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=280617002 

FACTS from the 2010 Finals:

Game 1:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=300603013&period=4

Game 2:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=300606013&period=4  -- notice how RR CARRIED us in crunch time

Game 3:  http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=300608002  -- played 42 minutes, but in some late foul trouble

Game 4:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=300610002&period=4  -- re-entered game around 2:50 to go

Game 5:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=300613002&period=4  -- played big in last minutes

Game 6:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=300615013

Game 7:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=300617013&period=4  ---  RR makes three pointer with 27 seconds to go

I just thought that it might be worthwhile to go back to the actual box scores rather than trusting someone's assumptions based on their memories!!!!!

Smitty77

Our toughest series that season was during the 08 ECSF vs the Cavs

This is the amount of playing time Rondo received during the 4Q of that epic series:

1. 8 seconds
2. 1 min 4 seconds
3. did not play in the 4Q
4. 3 min 56 seconds
5. 12 minutes
6. 6 min 52 seconds
7. 10 minutes

vs LAL

1. 5 min 48 seconds
2. 12 minutes
3. 3 min 34 seconds (he had 4 fouls the entire game)
4. did not play in the 4Q (you excluded this game from your post)
5. 26 seconds (game was practically lost when he entered, barring a total collapse, with LA up 5)
6. 4 min 59 seconds

During the 2010 Finals he played a lot, but didn't play well. That's the series Kobe was playing free safety, doubling off him, and daring him to shoot.

Rondo shot 45.4% from the field, 26.3% from the line (yes, 26.3%! 5 for 19), and 33.3% from 3's. His assists were also way down (7.6) despite the heavy minutes 38.8.

Hmmm.  Notice how he played 12, 7, and 10 minutes in the last 3 games of our toughest series of 2008.  That is literally MOST of the 4th during the last three games of our toughest series.  In 2010, unless my memory is incorrect, Rondo spent a LOT of time guarding arguably the GREATEST scorer of the modern NBA, Kobe.  You, of course, were very quick in NOT giving him credit for that!!!

Smitty77

[Eddie20]

You can't win with a point guard who can't shoot, especially can't shoot free throws.  That's indisputable.  Right now he's 9 for 26 for the year.  He can't be left on the floor at the end of games--the C's will need Banks or Pressey at PG, so how valuable can Rondo be? 

He's also a ball pounder at crunch time.

The C's should trade him for whatever they can get and also rid themselves of a clubhouse problem.

Actually we won our one and only championship in the last 25 years with this very PG.

I bet you money Rondo was not in the game the last 5 minutes of many of those games.

In fact they probably put in Eddie House to finish games.

FACTS from the 2008 NBA Finals:

Game 1:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=280605002&period=4

Game 2:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=280608002&period=4

Game 3:  Rondo got into some late foul trouble and evidently was not in the final 5 minutes

Game 5:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=280615013&period=4  -- Rondo was in during the last minute, but didn't play much overall in the game due to poor play.

Game 6:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=280617002&period=4

Check out Rondo's box score in our clenching game 6:

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=280617002 

FACTS from the 2010 Finals:

Game 1:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=300603013&period=4

Game 2:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=300606013&period=4  -- notice how RR CARRIED us in crunch time

Game 3:  http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=300608002  -- played 42 minutes, but in some late foul trouble

Game 4:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=300610002&period=4  -- re-entered game around 2:50 to go

Game 5:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=300613002&period=4  -- played big in last minutes

Game 6:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=300615013

Game 7:  http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=300617013&period=4  ---  RR makes three pointer with 27 seconds to go

I just thought that it might be worthwhile to go back to the actual box scores rather than trusting someone's assumptions based on their memories!!!!!

Smitty77

Our toughest series that season was during the 08 ECSF vs the Cavs

This is the amount of playing time Rondo received during the 4Q of that epic series:

1. 8 seconds
2. 1 min 4 seconds
3. did not play in the 4Q
4. 3 min 56 seconds
5. 12 minutes
6. 6 min 52 seconds
7. 10 minutes

vs LAL

1. 5 min 48 seconds
2. 12 minutes
3. 3 min 34 seconds (he had 4 fouls the entire game)
4. did not play in the 4Q (you excluded this game from your post)
5. 26 seconds (game was practically lost when he entered, barring a total collapse, with LA up 5)
6. 4 min 59 seconds

During the 2010 Finals he played a lot, but didn't play well. That's the series Kobe was playing free safety, doubling off him, and daring him to shoot.

Rondo shot 45.4% from the field, 26.3% from the line (yes, 26.3%! 5 for 19), and 33.3% from 3's. His assists were also way down (7.6) despite the heavy minutes 38.8.

Hmmm.  Notice how he played 12, 7, and 10 minutes in the last 3 games of our toughest series of 2008.  That is literally MOST of the 4th during the last three games of our toughest series.  In 2010, unless my memory is incorrect, Rondo spent a LOT of time guarding arguably the GREATEST scorer of the modern NBA, Kobe.  You, of course, were very quick in NOT giving him credit for that!!!

Smitty77

Yes, but the point is that he was taken out of several games for either Cassell or House like others have said.

Yes, your memory is incorrect. Allen, for as bad as he did offensively, did an exceptional job on Kobe during that series. Not sure when you saw Rondo covering Kobe, unless it was on a switch here and there, but he definitely wasn't on him "a lot".

[Celtics18]

I agree that during our championship run in 2008, the 20 year old, second year, Rajon Rondo was a role player, a very good role player, but a role player nonetheless.

During our Finals run in 2010, however, Rondo was arguably our most valuable player.  He was almost indisputably one of our top three.  Again in 2012, he was arguably our best player, almost indisputably top two.

In 2009, he was the best ( I guess you could argue second best) on the team that was a game away from reaching the conference finals.

In 2011, he played like a star in our first round series against the Knicks, probably our best player.  He started slowly in the Miami series, and then of course suffered the infamous take down by Dwayne Wade, which effectively ended any chance we had to advance beyond that series. 

[Eddie20]

I agree that during our championship run in 2008, the 20 year old, second year, Rajon Rondo was a role player, a very good role player, but a role player nonetheless.

During our Finals run in 2010, however, Rondo was arguably our most valuable player.  He was almost indisputably one of our top three.  Again in 2012, he was arguably our best player, almost indisputably top two.

In 2009, he was the best ( I guess you could argue second best) on the team that was a game away from reaching the conference finals.

In 2011, he played like a star in our first round series against the Knicks, probably our best player.  He started slowly in the Miami series, and then of course suffered the infamous take down by Dwayne Wade, which effectively ended any chance we had to advance beyond that series.

I agree with many of what you said, except in 09 Pierce was definitely the best player on the team, since KG was injured, and it could go either way between Rondo and Allen on who was after that.

The problem is that since 09, when Rondo was still only 23, has he improved much if at all? The expected development in his game, better shooting and scoring, never occurred. So when the great players alongside him were no longer great he didn't have the game to take on the increased role.

So what we have now is a soon to be 29 year old player, looking for major money, and with flaws in his game so severe that the entire roster has to be designed in a way to mask them.

He was supposed to answer many of the questions we had last year and show everyone he was back. However, there are now probably more questions than answers 14 games in. This time though the ACL excuse isn't going to fly.

[Celtics18]

I agree that during our championship run in 2008, the 20 year old, second year, Rajon Rondo was a role player, a very good role player, but a role player nonetheless.

During our Finals run in 2010, however, Rondo was arguably our most valuable player.  He was almost indisputably one of our top three.  Again in 2012, he was arguably our best player, almost indisputably top two.

In 2009, he was the best ( I guess you could argue second best) on the team that was a game away from reaching the conference finals.

In 2011, he played like a star in our first round series against the Knicks, probably our best player.  He started slowly in the Miami series, and then of course suffered the infamous take down by Dwayne Wade, which effectively ended any chance we had to advance beyond that series.

I agree with many of what you said, except in 09 Pierce was definitely the best player on the team, since KG was injured, and it could go either way between Rondo and Allen on who was after that.

The problem is that since 09, when Rondo was still only 23, has he improved much if at all? The expected development in his game, better shooting and scoring, never occurred. So when the great players alongside him were no longer great he didn't have the game to take on the increased role.

So what we have now is a soon to be 29 year old player, looking for major money, and with flaws in his game so severe that the entire roster has to be designed in a way to mask them.

He was supposed to answer many of the questions we had last year and show everyone he was back. However, there are now probably more questions than answers 14 games in. This time though the ACL excuse isn't going to fly.

This is probably just semantics, but I would say that the team needs to be designed to maximize his strengths rather than to mask his flaws.

[Eddie20]

I agree that during our championship run in 2008, the 20 year old, second year, Rajon Rondo was a role player, a very good role player, but a role player nonetheless.

During our Finals run in 2010, however, Rondo was arguably our most valuable player.  He was almost indisputably one of our top three.  Again in 2012, he was arguably our best player, almost indisputably top two.

In 2009, he was the best ( I guess you could argue second best) on the team that was a game away from reaching the conference finals.

In 2011, he played like a star in our first round series against the Knicks, probably our best player.  He started slowly in the Miami series, and then of course suffered the infamous take down by Dwayne Wade, which effectively ended any chance we had to advance beyond that series.

I agree with many of what you said, except in 09 Pierce was definitely the best player on the team, since KG was injured, and it could go either way between Rondo and Allen on who was after that.

The problem is that since 09, when Rondo was still only 23, has he improved much if at all? The expected development in his game, better shooting and scoring, never occurred. So when the great players alongside him were no longer great he didn't have the game to take on the increased role.

So what we have now is a soon to be 29 year old player, looking for major money, and with flaws in his game so severe that the entire roster has to be designed in a way to mask them.

He was supposed to answer many of the questions we had last year and show everyone he was back. However, there are now probably more questions than answers 14 games in. This time though the ACL excuse isn't going to fly.

This is probably just semantics, but I would say that the team needs to be designed to maximize his strengths rather than to mask his flaws.

Ok, but by the time we acquire a scorer to make key baskets in crunch time (like Pierce), a shooter to spread the floor (like Allen), and a big man who can score inside and protect the basket defensively (like Garnett) Rondo will be how old? When you combine all the pieces are roster lacks with Rondo's age and desired contract it makes much more sense to deal him for assets than it does to try to surround him with players that both play to his strengths and hide his flaws.

[Celtics18]

I agree that during our championship run in 2008, the 20 year old, second year, Rajon Rondo was a role player, a very good role player, but a role player nonetheless.

During our Finals run in 2010, however, Rondo was arguably our most valuable player.  He was almost indisputably one of our top three.  Again in 2012, he was arguably our best player, almost indisputably top two.

In 2009, he was the best ( I guess you could argue second best) on the team that was a game away from reaching the conference finals.

In 2011, he played like a star in our first round series against the Knicks, probably our best player.  He started slowly in the Miami series, and then of course suffered the infamous take down by Dwayne Wade, which effectively ended any chance we had to advance beyond that series.

I agree with many of what you said, except in 09 Pierce was definitely the best player on the team, since KG was injured, and it could go either way between Rondo and Allen on who was after that.

The problem is that since 09, when Rondo was still only 23, has he improved much if at all? The expected development in his game, better shooting and scoring, never occurred. So when the great players alongside him were no longer great he didn't have the game to take on the increased role.

So what we have now is a soon to be 29 year old player, looking for major money, and with flaws in his game so severe that the entire roster has to be designed in a way to mask them.

He was supposed to answer many of the questions we had last year and show everyone he was back. However, there are now probably more questions than answers 14 games in. This time though the ACL excuse isn't going to fly.

This is probably just semantics, but I would say that the team needs to be designed to maximize his strengths rather than to mask his flaws.

Ok, but by the time we acquire a scorer to make key baskets in crunch time (like Pierce), a shooter to spread the floor (like Allen), and a big man who can score inside and protect the basket defensively (like Garnett) Rondo will be how old? When you combine all the pieces are roster lacks with Rondo's age and desired contract it makes much more sense to deal him for assets than it does to try to surround him with players that both play to his strengths and hide his flaws.

What's the timetable on the assets you want to trade Rondo for turning into players of Paul Pierce and KG's caliber?

It's obviously far from a given that we can become a title contender again with Rondo as our point guard, but I happen to think we have a better shot of getting there sooner if we keep him than if we trade him away for young assets and picks.

[CoachBo]

That depends.

Not paying Rondo max money. Not today. Not ever. Franchise-defining mistake if they do.

Not for this woeful product.

If he's willing to sign a market contract and do something about the substantial holes in his game, fine. Let's resign him.

Personally, I wouldn't trade him. I'd just let him walk - because there's absolutely NO chance I'd pay a player with his obvious and substantial warts max money just because a sub-group of the fan base is head over heels in love with him and can't realistically evaluate his skills.

[Eddie20]

I agree that during our championship run in 2008, the 20 year old, second year, Rajon Rondo was a role player, a very good role player, but a role player nonetheless.

During our Finals run in 2010, however, Rondo was arguably our most valuable player.  He was almost indisputably one of our top three.  Again in 2012, he was arguably our best player, almost indisputably top two.

In 2009, he was the best ( I guess you could argue second best) on the team that was a game away from reaching the conference finals.

In 2011, he played like a star in our first round series against the Knicks, probably our best player.  He started slowly in the Miami series, and then of course suffered the infamous take down by Dwayne Wade, which effectively ended any chance we had to advance beyond that series.

I agree with many of what you said, except in 09 Pierce was definitely the best player on the team, since KG was injured, and it could go either way between Rondo and Allen on who was after that.

The problem is that since 09, when Rondo was still only 23, has he improved much if at all? The expected development in his game, better shooting and scoring, never occurred. So when the great players alongside him were no longer great he didn't have the game to take on the increased role.

So what we have now is a soon to be 29 year old player, looking for major money, and with flaws in his game so severe that the entire roster has to be designed in a way to mask them.

He was supposed to answer many of the questions we had last year and show everyone he was back. However, there are now probably more questions than answers 14 games in. This time though the ACL excuse isn't going to fly.

This is probably just semantics, but I would say that the team needs to be designed to maximize his strengths rather than to mask his flaws.

Ok, but by the time we acquire a scorer to make key baskets in crunch time (like Pierce), a shooter to spread the floor (like Allen), and a big man who can score inside and protect the basket defensively (like Garnett) Rondo will be how old? When you combine all the pieces are roster lacks with Rondo's age and desired contract it makes much more sense to deal him for assets than it does to try to surround him with players that both play to his strengths and hide his flaws.

What's the timetable on the assets you want to trade Rondo for turning into players of Paul Pierce and KG's caliber?

It's obviously far from a given that we can become a title contender again with Rondo as our point guard, but I happen to think we have a better shot of getting there sooner if we keep him than if we trade him away for young assets and picks.

I'd be willing to be patient and continue to collect assets. I'd rather do that then tie up big money on a near 30 year old player who has shown little, if any, growth as a player in arguably 5 seasons.

I'll ask you this, are you willing to re-sign Rondo at a max deal, or near that, based on his play from the 12-13 season to present or his play from 08-09 to 11-12? If the answer is the latter, I would contend that paying for past performance, instead of current production, is a surefire way to give out a bad and ultimately regrettable contract.

[Chris22]

That depends.

Not paying Rondo max money. Not today. Not ever. Franchise-defining mistake if they do.

Not for this woeful product.

If he's willing to sign a market contract and do something about the substantial holes in his game, fine. Let's resign him.

Personally, I wouldn't trade him. I'd just let him walk - because there's absolutely NO chance I'd pay a player with his obvious and substantial warts max money just because a sub-group of the fan base is head over heels in love with him and can't realistically evaluate his skills.

I would trade him, if we can get something back in return.....it doesn't have to be much.

[flybono]

I agree that during our championship run in 2008, the 20 year old, second year, Rajon Rondo was a role player, a very good role player, but a role player nonetheless.

During our Finals run in 2010, however, Rondo was arguably our most valuable player.  He was almost indisputably one of our top three.  Again in 2012, he was arguably our best player, almost indisputably top two.

In 2009, he was the best ( I guess you could argue second best) on the team that was a game away from reaching the conference finals.

In 2011, he played like a star in our first round series against the Knicks, probably our best player.  He started slowly in the Miami series, and then of course suffered the infamous take down by Dwayne Wade, which effectively ended any chance we had to advance beyond that series.

Put the Rondo pipe away please.. For Gods sakes man, KG, Ray and Pierce were on the floor or did u forget that?

Rondo isn't playing well because the Team sux! No matter what anyone on this board thinks about Rondo the Player, bottom line is, Team Sux and he does not want to be here..
Thus Ive been saying all along, he's a chip, he gets you rebuild pieces.

You think Jackie Mac's quote about him wanting out was chicken sh!t? If so your dillusional..
She was right, he wants out!

[Celtics18]

I agree that during our championship run in 2008, the 20 year old, second year, Rajon Rondo was a role player, a very good role player, but a role player nonetheless.

During our Finals run in 2010, however, Rondo was arguably our most valuable player.  He was almost indisputably one of our top three.  Again in 2012, he was arguably our best player, almost indisputably top two.

In 2009, he was the best ( I guess you could argue second best) on the team that was a game away from reaching the conference finals.

In 2011, he played like a star in our first round series against the Knicks, probably our best player.  He started slowly in the Miami series, and then of course suffered the infamous take down by Dwayne Wade, which effectively ended any chance we had to advance beyond that series.

I agree with many of what you said, except in 09 Pierce was definitely the best player on the team, since KG was injured, and it could go either way between Rondo and Allen on who was after that.

The problem is that since 09, when Rondo was still only 23, has he improved much if at all? The expected development in his game, better shooting and scoring, never occurred. So when the great players alongside him were no longer great he didn't have the game to take on the increased role.

So what we have now is a soon to be 29 year old player, looking for major money, and with flaws in his game so severe that the entire roster has to be designed in a way to mask them.

He was supposed to answer many of the questions we had last year and show everyone he was back. However, there are now probably more questions than answers 14 games in. This time though the ACL excuse isn't going to fly.

This is probably just semantics, but I would say that the team needs to be designed to maximize his strengths rather than to mask his flaws.

Ok, but by the time we acquire a scorer to make key baskets in crunch time (like Pierce), a shooter to spread the floor (like Allen), and a big man who can score inside and protect the basket defensively (like Garnett) Rondo will be how old? When you combine all the pieces are roster lacks with Rondo's age and desired contract it makes much more sense to deal him for assets than it does to try to surround him with players that both play to his strengths and hide his flaws.

What's the timetable on the assets you want to trade Rondo for turning into players of Paul Pierce and KG's caliber?

It's obviously far from a given that we can become a title contender again with Rondo as our point guard, but I happen to think we have a better shot of getting there sooner if we keep him than if we trade him away for young assets and picks.

I'd be willing to be patient and continue to collect assets. I'd rather do that then tie up big money on a near 30 year old player who has shown little, if any, growth as a player in arguably 5 seasons.

I'll ask you this, are you willing to re-sign Rondo at a max deal, or near that, based on his play from the 12-13 season to present or his play from 08-09 to 11-12? If the answer is the latter, I would contend that paying for past performance, instead of current production, is a surefire way to give out a bad and ultimately regrettable contract.

You never answered my initial question.  OK, maybe you kind of did.  You're willing to be patient.  Fair enough.  The problem I have is that the trade Rondo contingent never really offers an alternative to getting us into contention.  "Trade him for assets" sounds good, but what the heck does it really mean?

Here's what I get out of that stance (and please correct me if I'm wrong):  What many of of you seem to be saying is that seeing as we are not a contender right now, there's no point in trying to be.  "Trade away our best player for the future!!" Is your rallying cry, but you don't pretend to have any idea what that future holds.  You just seem to not be able to bear being set up for disappointment.

I can understand that philosophy, but I won't give into it.  I've come to recognize that being set up for disappointment, at least for me, is a big part of the fun of the whole sport's fan ethos.  Like it or not, possible disappointment always looms.

Anyway, sorry.  I'm rambling and I'm way off the topic of Rondo right now.

Back on topic, I actually, much to my own surprise, find myself agreeing with CoachBo on the Rondo subject:  No need to trade him now for bits and pieces.  Let's be patient, and wait until the off-season to see what it takes to re-sign him.