Rondo has to STOP pounding the ball

[snively]

Last night, going into the 4th quarter with a large lead, Rondo stopped being aggressive and instead kept pounding the ball to use up the shot clock, which resulted in stagnant offense, and the Cavaliers were able to get a stop there while Irving got hot. Tommy immediately pointed it out, and from his voice you can sense that he was mad at Rondo for this. Bad things happen when Rondo keeps pounding the ball.

If you watch great teams like the Spurs play, they always stay aggressive and never slow down the offensive flow, until the absolute garbage time.

Just let the ball flow, Rondo. The comical end of last night's game, in which Rondo pounded the ball to the team's demise, should make Brad Stevens well aware of this issue.

This happened well before Rondo checked back in the game.

It's not a Rondo thing anyways - the vast majority of teams slow things down in the 4th, esp. when it gets tight.

[Celtics18]

Rondo is what he is (cliché alert).  The blueprint is to sag off Rondo, let him do his thing, and stay home on everyone else.

This seems like a contradiction.  Rondo's "thing" is to pass the ball, get assists, and get points for everybody else.  If it were so easy to sag off him and "stay home on everyone else," you would think that Rondo's assist numbers wouldn't be what they are. 

While teams frequently do sag off Rondo and go under picks against him, it doesn't mean they are sticking like glue to everyone else.  As a matter of fact, you often see guys guarding off the ball on the perimeter cheating in towards the lane to defend against Rondo getting in the paint.  When he does get in the paint, defenses scramble to figure out what he's doing due to his vision and deceptiveness.  Guys are constantly left open for easy buckets, and, of course, Rondo finds them. 

In short, Rondo's abilities create more open looks for his teammates, not less. 

[Vermont Green]

Rondo is what he is (cliché alert).  The blueprint is to sag off Rondo, let him do his thing, and stay home on everyone else.

This seems like a contradiction.  Rondo's "thing" is to pass the ball, get assists, and get points for everybody else.  If it were so easy to sag off him and "stay home on everyone else," you would think that Rondo's assist numbers wouldn't be what they are. 

While teams frequently do sag off Rondo and go under picks against him, it doesn't mean they are sticking like glue to everyone else.  As a matter of fact, you often see guys guarding off the ball on the perimeter cheating in towards the lane to defend against Rondo getting in the paint.  When he does get in the paint, defenses scramble to figure out what he's doing due to his vision and deceptiveness.  Guys are constantly left open for easy buckets, and, of course, Rondo finds them. 

In short, Rondo's abilities create more open looks for his teammates, not less.

So these are fair questions but I think that the "blueprint" is more effective at the ends of games where things tighten up.  The blueprint is at its peak when it is a last shot situation, usually after a time out, where there is no transition to take advantage of.  The blueprint is at it worst (Celtics/Rondo at their best) when the team is running and pushing the ball in transition as Rondo has the chance to pick apart the not yet set defense.

I don't know why this is often the case but you see a team like the Celtics run and push the ball all game long and then still kind of slow down and get defensive at the end of the game.  I think the other team is playing tougher, the refs are calling closer fouls, and the team that is ahead just can't seem to help themselves from slowing down the pace.  This is not unique to the Celtics or Rondo but when the Celtics and Rondo do this and all the other things happen too, it becomes easier to take Rondo out of the game.

[ViolentGhandi]

Irving took over when Rondo did fall back into old habits? thats rich - at the time Irving took over Ronde wasnt even at the court most of the time. Neighter was Lebron - thats why Irving was handling the Ball for a change - most of the time when Lebron was in game Irving wasnt even much at all involved into the game - what did he have at the begin of the 4th? 6 point 2 rebounds and an assist or so. I don't get all the comolaining about Rondo - he can't cary the team, he is a ball hog, washed up.. has to be traded. Rondo was beating the Bulls allmost single handed back in the day b4 his injuries and at times he shows clear signs to get back to his dominating former self. Even if he wouldnt ever make a single point in a game he still would be leading the team as he makes everyone else so much better. Best example is Zeller - without Rondo he wouldnt ever produce. Rondo makes him shine since he awards him with on point passes for making good cuts. Thats wgat Zeller really does like nobody else in the team. He makes Green a offensive force instead of an below avg. 3 poimt shooter since he feeds him the ball in his sweet spot. the olays to the strenghts of his teammates. When Turner brings the ball up the court he often finds himself traped close to the basket and often lacks the court vision to find to open guy. Smart is a very nice defender but he isnt nowhere close to the offencive architekt Rondo is. You could say Rondo eats up his minutes but as long as Rondo is around Boston Smart will have a Mentor he can learn from. I really hope Rondo sticks to Boston for a couple more years since I love to watch him play. He never stops to amaze me. The reason we lose some games at the 4th is not Rondo. Celtics are a young team. Many of the guys have flaws but can be really good at nights. They still collect expirence. Learn to use their stenghts, learn to play thru oppents runs without losing their heads and finally get overpowered. They still have to learn that they have to concentrate till the game is over even with at 10+ point lead. And the team has still to figure out the 1-2 go to guys at crunch time because Rondo shouldnt be that guy but the guy who feeds them down the line. We don't have a Pierce anymore who could decide a game in the finial minutes. We have 4 other starters who have to step up in plays designed for em. Rondo will run those plays but the other 4 guys allways have to be ready to do exactly what is expected from them and nothing more. I belive that will take some time before they have reached that point. You can't expect guys like Oly started to belive he can beat most of the bigs on its why dribbling the ball to the basket for an easy layup over night. Once he figures that out for himself he will force those situations and get tons of foul shots. I don't mind if we are not making the playoffs as long as team team plays hard. I do'nt mind us losing a bunch of game in the 4th after having a big lead. I'm sure that will stop pretty soon from happen on a regular basis because the team easily can find the reason for those lses not their lack of skill but in their inexpeariance and the error they make thru the cource of a game. I belive we the Celtics can be a playoff team this year and they need Rondo to lead them. I don't want to see any more of what I hae seen at times last year when the team wasnt able to figure out ways to score, when they werent playing to their strenghts.

Hopefully my english isnt making you roll on the floor laughting - I hardly ever have to type a lot of it. I could post in german but you would understand even less. I could run spellcheck but I'm too lazy and sure that that they smart minority here will be able to make sense of my posts to some degree. For the rest I do not care since I can't help them anyways - every1 has his limits and I accepted to the point that I mostly laught reading about the ways they see things. Its like a stange mirror universe, with strange physics and ppl I know are alterated in many ways and lots of things that make me ponder a lot are eighter not existent for them or very clear and simple. Sometimes I really envy em for that, I truly do.

[BballTim]

Rondo is what he is (cliché alert).  The blueprint is to sag off Rondo, let him do his thing, and stay home on everyone else.

This seems like a contradiction.  Rondo's "thing" is to pass the ball, get assists, and get points for everybody else.  If it were so easy to sag off him and "stay home on everyone else," you would think that Rondo's assist numbers wouldn't be what they are. 

While teams frequently do sag off Rondo and go under picks against him, it doesn't mean they are sticking like glue to everyone else.  As a matter of fact, you often see guys guarding off the ball on the perimeter cheating in towards the lane to defend against Rondo getting in the paint.  When he does get in the paint, defenses scramble to figure out what he's doing due to his vision and deceptiveness.  Guys are constantly left open for easy buckets, and, of course, Rondo finds them. 

In short, Rondo's abilities create more open looks for his teammates, not less.

So these are fair questions but I think that the "blueprint" is more effective at the ends of games where things tighten up.  The blueprint is at its peak when it is a last shot situation, usually after a time out, where there is no transition to take advantage of.  The blueprint is at it worst (Celtics/Rondo at their best) when the team is running and pushing the ball in transition as Rondo has the chance to pick apart the not yet set defense.

  What you're witnessing at those times isn't a Rondo thing, it's an nba thing. Go to 82games and check out some team eFG% for different parts of the shot clock. All (or at least almost all) of them will be significantly higher in transition than late in the shot clock. Also, they did a few studies a few years ago:

http://82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm
http://82games.com/random12.htm

  That track those last shot situation you're talking about. The tables have league average numbers at the top, and the average fg% are all under 30%. So defenses are better against every team in the league during the times you're talking about, and you're trying to claim it's something specific to defenses against Rondo. It's not.

[ViolentGhandi]

Ohh and I would have put Zeller into the game for the final 5 sec and have let him cut and Rondo goining to penetrate hard right after the inbound. That was just so effective thruout that game and in prior games and its pretty simple. Suly tried to get open under the basket but he often ends up fighting hard for position because of his lack of size while Zeller just goes staight line to the basket. Leon Powe was also I guy who had that eye for the opening to cut into and it resulted in a lot of nice dunks - [dang] I loved that guy undersized, injury prone, limited, but relentless rebounding and goin hard for the rim looking to dunk the ball.With 5 sec left on the clock I would always go for the guy who is attacking the rim hard cause 50+% he will make the layup dunk and on the offchance you have 2 free throws.

[playdream]

Rondo is what he is (cliché alert).  The blueprint is to sag off Rondo, let him do his thing, and stay home on everyone else.

This seems like a contradiction.  Rondo's "thing" is to pass the ball, get assists, and get points for everybody else.  If it were so easy to sag off him and "stay home on everyone else," you would think that Rondo's assist numbers wouldn't be what they are. 

While teams frequently do sag off Rondo and go under picks against him, it doesn't mean they are sticking like glue to everyone else.  As a matter of fact, you often see guys guarding off the ball on the perimeter cheating in towards the lane to defend against Rondo getting in the paint.  When he does get in the paint, defenses scramble to figure out what he's doing due to his vision and deceptiveness.  Guys are constantly left open for easy buckets, and, of course, Rondo finds them. 

In short, Rondo's abilities create more open looks for his teammates, not less.

But what about Rondo's abilities to create for his own looks?
I think we all know that now

[Vermont Green]

Rondo is what he is (cliché alert).  The blueprint is to sag off Rondo, let him do his thing, and stay home on everyone else.

This seems like a contradiction.  Rondo's "thing" is to pass the ball, get assists, and get points for everybody else.  If it were so easy to sag off him and "stay home on everyone else," you would think that Rondo's assist numbers wouldn't be what they are. 

While teams frequently do sag off Rondo and go under picks against him, it doesn't mean they are sticking like glue to everyone else.  As a matter of fact, you often see guys guarding off the ball on the perimeter cheating in towards the lane to defend against Rondo getting in the paint.  When he does get in the paint, defenses scramble to figure out what he's doing due to his vision and deceptiveness.  Guys are constantly left open for easy buckets, and, of course, Rondo finds them. 

In short, Rondo's abilities create more open looks for his teammates, not less.

So these are fair questions but I think that the "blueprint" is more effective at the ends of games where things tighten up.  The blueprint is at its peak when it is a last shot situation, usually after a time out, where there is no transition to take advantage of.  The blueprint is at it worst (Celtics/Rondo at their best) when the team is running and pushing the ball in transition as Rondo has the chance to pick apart the not yet set defense.

  What you're witnessing at those times isn't a Rondo thing, it's an nba thing. Go to 82games and check out some team eFG% for different parts of the shot clock. All (or at least almost all) of them will be significantly higher in transition than late in the shot clock. Also, they did a few studies a few years ago:

http://82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm
http://82games.com/random12.htm

  That track those last shot situation you're talking about. The tables have league average numbers at the top, and the average fg% are all under 30%. So defenses are better against every team in the league during the times you're talking about, and you're trying to claim it's something specific to defenses against Rondo. It's not.

You only quoted part of my post, leaving out the part where I said the tendency for the game to slow down in the 4th is not a Celtics thing or a Rondo thing, it is a league thing.

My point is that Rondo can best utilize his unique skill set during times when the game is more open.  If he gets the ball up the court before the defense is set, he can use his unique passing skills more readily.  His skill set is more conducive to that pace of play.  When the pace is slowed in the 4th quarter, Rondo's flaws are more easily exploited.

Every player has strength and flaws that are more or less conducive to certain pace or style of play but the effect of this is amplified with Rondo more than any player that I can think of.  This is because his strengths are so strong and his flaws are so flawed.  So when the game is slowed and his strength is largely negated, his flaws can be exploited and the result is a dramatic reduction in his on court impact.

This is my theory to explain why a player with the talent of Rondo's is not able to demonstrate any improvement in a team's W-L record over something like 4 years.  You can try to explain this in other ways and I would be interest in other theories but if you try to deny that Rondo the basketball player is a paradox, you would be disregarding a huge body of evidence to the contrary.

[Eddie20]

Rondo is what he is (cliché alert).  The blueprint is to sag off Rondo, let him do his thing, and stay home on everyone else.

This seems like a contradiction.  Rondo's "thing" is to pass the ball, get assists, and get points for everybody else.  If it were so easy to sag off him and "stay home on everyone else," you would think that Rondo's assist numbers wouldn't be what they are. 

While teams frequently do sag off Rondo and go under picks against him, it doesn't mean they are sticking like glue to everyone else.  As a matter of fact, you often see guys guarding off the ball on the perimeter cheating in towards the lane to defend against Rondo getting in the paint.  When he does get in the paint, defenses scramble to figure out what he's doing due to his vision and deceptiveness.  Guys are constantly left open for easy buckets, and, of course, Rondo finds them. 

In short, Rondo's abilities create more open looks for his teammates, not less.

So these are fair questions but I think that the "blueprint" is more effective at the ends of games where things tighten up.  The blueprint is at its peak when it is a last shot situation, usually after a time out, where there is no transition to take advantage of.  The blueprint is at it worst (Celtics/Rondo at their best) when the team is running and pushing the ball in transition as Rondo has the chance to pick apart the not yet set defense.

  What you're witnessing at those times isn't a Rondo thing, it's an nba thing. Go to 82games and check out some team eFG% for different parts of the shot clock. All (or at least almost all) of them will be significantly higher in transition than late in the shot clock. Also, they did a few studies a few years ago:

http://82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm
http://82games.com/random12.htm

  That track those last shot situation you're talking about. The tables have league average numbers at the top, and the average fg% are all under 30%. So defenses are better against every team in the league during the times you're talking about, and you're trying to claim it's something specific to defenses against Rondo. It's not.

You only quoted part of my post, leaving out the part where I said the tendency for the game to slow down in the 4th is not a Celtics thing or a Rondo thing, it is a league thing.

My point is that Rondo can best utilize his unique skill set during times when the game is more open.  If he gets the ball up the court before the defense is set, he can use his unique passing skills more readily.  His skill set is more conducive to that pace of play.  When the pace is slowed in the 4th quarter, Rondo's flaws are more easily exploited.

Every player has strength and flaws that are more or less conducive to certain pace or style of play but the effect of this is amplified with Rondo more than any player that I can think of.  This is because his strengths are so strong and his flaws are so flawed.  So when the game is slowed and his strength is largely negated, his flaws can be exploited and the result is a dramatic reduction in his on court impact.

This is my theory to explain why a player with the talent of Rondo's is not able to demonstrate any improvement in a team's W-L record over something like 4 years.  You can try to explain this in other ways and I would be interest in other theories but if you try to deny that Rondo the basketball player is a paradox, you would be disregarding a huge body of evidence to the contrary.

Nailed it!

TP

[BballTim]

Rondo is what he is (cliché alert).  The blueprint is to sag off Rondo, let him do his thing, and stay home on everyone else.

This seems like a contradiction.  Rondo's "thing" is to pass the ball, get assists, and get points for everybody else.  If it were so easy to sag off him and "stay home on everyone else," you would think that Rondo's assist numbers wouldn't be what they are. 

While teams frequently do sag off Rondo and go under picks against him, it doesn't mean they are sticking like glue to everyone else.  As a matter of fact, you often see guys guarding off the ball on the perimeter cheating in towards the lane to defend against Rondo getting in the paint.  When he does get in the paint, defenses scramble to figure out what he's doing due to his vision and deceptiveness.  Guys are constantly left open for easy buckets, and, of course, Rondo finds them. 

In short, Rondo's abilities create more open looks for his teammates, not less.

But what about Rondo's abilities to create for his own looks?
I think we all know that now

  Not the best, not the worst. He has about 30% of his baskets assisted, compared to 40%-45% for the average point guard. Unless you base your entire analysis on a few plays, in which case he's terrible at it.

[Donoghus]

Rondo is what he is (cliché alert).  The blueprint is to sag off Rondo, let him do his thing, and stay home on everyone else.

This seems like a contradiction.  Rondo's "thing" is to pass the ball, get assists, and get points for everybody else.  If it were so easy to sag off him and "stay home on everyone else," you would think that Rondo's assist numbers wouldn't be what they are. 

While teams frequently do sag off Rondo and go under picks against him, it doesn't mean they are sticking like glue to everyone else.  As a matter of fact, you often see guys guarding off the ball on the perimeter cheating in towards the lane to defend against Rondo getting in the paint.  When he does get in the paint, defenses scramble to figure out what he's doing due to his vision and deceptiveness.  Guys are constantly left open for easy buckets, and, of course, Rondo finds them. 

In short, Rondo's abilities create more open looks for his teammates, not less.

So these are fair questions but I think that the "blueprint" is more effective at the ends of games where things tighten up.  The blueprint is at its peak when it is a last shot situation, usually after a time out, where there is no transition to take advantage of.  The blueprint is at it worst (Celtics/Rondo at their best) when the team is running and pushing the ball in transition as Rondo has the chance to pick apart the not yet set defense.

I don't know why this is often the case but you see a team like the Celtics run and push the ball all game long and then still kind of slow down and get defensive at the end of the game.  I think the other team is playing tougher, the refs are calling closer fouls, and the team that is ahead just can't seem to help themselves from slowing down the pace.  This is not unique to the Celtics or Rondo but when the Celtics and Rondo do this and all the other things happen too, it becomes easier to take Rondo out of the game.

I think there is a good amount of truth to this.  That's why having a Paul Pierce was huge.  How many times would he take control in the 4th quarter when they needed it?  He was a guy who knew to operate and really exploit things when things slowed down in the 4th.

Celtics don't have that dimension right now.  They don't have that guy on this roster.

[BballTim]

Rondo is what he is (cliché alert).  The blueprint is to sag off Rondo, let him do his thing, and stay home on everyone else.

This seems like a contradiction.  Rondo's "thing" is to pass the ball, get assists, and get points for everybody else.  If it were so easy to sag off him and "stay home on everyone else," you would think that Rondo's assist numbers wouldn't be what they are. 

While teams frequently do sag off Rondo and go under picks against him, it doesn't mean they are sticking like glue to everyone else.  As a matter of fact, you often see guys guarding off the ball on the perimeter cheating in towards the lane to defend against Rondo getting in the paint.  When he does get in the paint, defenses scramble to figure out what he's doing due to his vision and deceptiveness.  Guys are constantly left open for easy buckets, and, of course, Rondo finds them. 

In short, Rondo's abilities create more open looks for his teammates, not less.

So these are fair questions but I think that the "blueprint" is more effective at the ends of games where things tighten up.  The blueprint is at its peak when it is a last shot situation, usually after a time out, where there is no transition to take advantage of.  The blueprint is at it worst (Celtics/Rondo at their best) when the team is running and pushing the ball in transition as Rondo has the chance to pick apart the not yet set defense.

  What you're witnessing at those times isn't a Rondo thing, it's an nba thing. Go to 82games and check out some team eFG% for different parts of the shot clock. All (or at least almost all) of them will be significantly higher in transition than late in the shot clock. Also, they did a few studies a few years ago:

http://82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm
http://82games.com/random12.htm

  That track those last shot situation you're talking about. The tables have league average numbers at the top, and the average fg% are all under 30%. So defenses are better against every team in the league during the times you're talking about, and you're trying to claim it's something specific to defenses against Rondo. It's not.

You only quoted part of my post, leaving out the part where I said the tendency for the game to slow down in the 4th is not a Celtics thing or a Rondo thing, it is a league thing.

  So I left out the part where you undercut your own theory. You claim that there's a blueprint for taking Rondo out of the game. I point out that it must not be much of a blueprint, given his success over a number of years. You then say it's effective, but only at times when all defenses are more effective. The difference between having a blueprint and not having a blueprint is, for all intents and purposes, non-existent.

My point is that Rondo can best utilize his unique skill set during times when the game is more open.  If he gets the ball up the court before the defense is set, he can use his unique passing skills more readily.  His skill set is more conducive to that pace of play.  When the pace is slowed in the 4th quarter, Rondo's flaws are more easily exploited.

  There's not much truth to this. Some, because Rondo does excel in transition, but Rondo's one of the better PGs in the league at running a half court offense. His teams have had plenty of success at it. Also, when you're talking about times when the pace slows and defenses dig in, start with the playoffs, where Rondo shines on a regular basis.

Every player has strength and flaws that are more or less conducive to certain pace or style of play but the effect of this is amplified with Rondo more than any player that I can think of.  This is because his strengths are so strong and his flaws are so flawed.  So when the game is slowed and his strength is largely negated, his flaws can be exploited and the result is a dramatic reduction in his on court impact.

  Again, this isn't the case, as his play in the playoffs (against mainly top defenses) has amply shown over a number of years. You frequently talk about how teams sag off of Rondo and talk about how effective that it is, yet it's pointed out time and again that defending him like that doesn't prevent him from getting assists or getting into the lane. To me, that sounds like a fairly ineffective blueprint.

  In any case, I compared Rondo's 4th quarter assists to other point guards that pass a lot but are better scorers. I went back to 2011, back to 2010 for Nash. Rondo gets 18.3% of his assists in the 4th quarter, slightly better than Deron Williams at 17.8% but well ahead of CP (14%) and Nash (13%). Again, there's no evidence to back up your claims, and there's plenty of evidence to contradict it.

[BballTim]

Rondo is what he is (cliché alert).  The blueprint is to sag off Rondo, let him do his thing, and stay home on everyone else.

This seems like a contradiction.  Rondo's "thing" is to pass the ball, get assists, and get points for everybody else.  If it were so easy to sag off him and "stay home on everyone else," you would think that Rondo's assist numbers wouldn't be what they are. 

While teams frequently do sag off Rondo and go under picks against him, it doesn't mean they are sticking like glue to everyone else.  As a matter of fact, you often see guys guarding off the ball on the perimeter cheating in towards the lane to defend against Rondo getting in the paint.  When he does get in the paint, defenses scramble to figure out what he's doing due to his vision and deceptiveness.  Guys are constantly left open for easy buckets, and, of course, Rondo finds them. 

In short, Rondo's abilities create more open looks for his teammates, not less.

So these are fair questions but I think that the "blueprint" is more effective at the ends of games where things tighten up.  The blueprint is at its peak when it is a last shot situation, usually after a time out, where there is no transition to take advantage of.  The blueprint is at it worst (Celtics/Rondo at their best) when the team is running and pushing the ball in transition as Rondo has the chance to pick apart the not yet set defense.

I don't know why this is often the case but you see a team like the Celtics run and push the ball all game long and then still kind of slow down and get defensive at the end of the game.  I think the other team is playing tougher, the refs are calling closer fouls, and the team that is ahead just can't seem to help themselves from slowing down the pace.  This is not unique to the Celtics or Rondo but when the Celtics and Rondo do this and all the other things happen too, it becomes easier to take Rondo out of the game.

I think there is a good amount of truth to this.  That's why having a Paul Pierce was huge.  How many times would he take control in the 4th quarter when they needed it?  He was a guy who knew to operate and really exploit things when things slowed down in the 4th.

Celtics don't have that dimension right now.  They don't have that guy on this roster.

  That was great until 2010 or so, when the complaints about those PP isos steadily started to grow. I think our go-to clutch play the last few "big three" years was the KG jumper.

[Donoghus]

Rondo is what he is (cliché alert).  The blueprint is to sag off Rondo, let him do his thing, and stay home on everyone else.

This seems like a contradiction.  Rondo's "thing" is to pass the ball, get assists, and get points for everybody else.  If it were so easy to sag off him and "stay home on everyone else," you would think that Rondo's assist numbers wouldn't be what they are. 

While teams frequently do sag off Rondo and go under picks against him, it doesn't mean they are sticking like glue to everyone else.  As a matter of fact, you often see guys guarding off the ball on the perimeter cheating in towards the lane to defend against Rondo getting in the paint.  When he does get in the paint, defenses scramble to figure out what he's doing due to his vision and deceptiveness.  Guys are constantly left open for easy buckets, and, of course, Rondo finds them. 

In short, Rondo's abilities create more open looks for his teammates, not less.

So these are fair questions but I think that the "blueprint" is more effective at the ends of games where things tighten up.  The blueprint is at its peak when it is a last shot situation, usually after a time out, where there is no transition to take advantage of.  The blueprint is at it worst (Celtics/Rondo at their best) when the team is running and pushing the ball in transition as Rondo has the chance to pick apart the not yet set defense.

I don't know why this is often the case but you see a team like the Celtics run and push the ball all game long and then still kind of slow down and get defensive at the end of the game.  I think the other team is playing tougher, the refs are calling closer fouls, and the team that is ahead just can't seem to help themselves from slowing down the pace.  This is not unique to the Celtics or Rondo but when the Celtics and Rondo do this and all the other things happen too, it becomes easier to take Rondo out of the game.

I think there is a good amount of truth to this.  That's why having a Paul Pierce was huge.  How many times would he take control in the 4th quarter when they needed it?  He was a guy who knew to operate and really exploit things when things slowed down in the 4th.

Celtics don't have that dimension right now.  They don't have that guy on this roster.

  That was great until 2010 or so, when the complaints about those PP isos steadily started to grow. I think our go-to clutch play the last few "big three" years was the KG jumper.

C'mon, we not just talking those last second plays here. (And, yes, they were frustrating).  I'm talking long stretches in the 4th quarter.  Putting the ball in Pierce's hands where he would drive and draw fouls (like we saw from Lebron last night).  Mid range jumpers or just drawing defenders in penetration then kicking out to KG or Ray.  Essentially, helping put things on his back as a scorer or a passer.  Even just getting to the line can help stop the bleeding.

We're not seeing play like that right now.  Both Turner & Green have some of those tools and you can see glimpses of it but they just can't seem to put it together. Pierce was an extremely cerebral player.

[zimbo]

Irving took over when Rondo did fall back into old habits? thats rich - at the time Irving took over Ronde wasnt even at the court most of the time. Neighter was Lebron - thats why Irving was handling the Ball for a change - most of the time when Lebron was in game Irving wasnt even much at all involved into the game - what did he have at the begin of the 4th? 6 point 2 rebounds and an assist or so. I don't get all the comolaining about Rondo - he can't cary the team, he is a ball hog, washed up.. has to be traded. Rondo was beating the Bulls allmost single handed back in the day b4 his injuries and at times he shows clear signs to get back to his dominating former self. Even if he wouldnt ever make a single point in a game he still would be leading the team as he makes everyone else so much better. Best example is Zeller - without Rondo he wouldnt ever produce. Rondo makes him shine since he awards him with on point passes for making good cuts. Thats wgat Zeller really does like nobody else in the team. He makes Green a offensive force instead of an below avg. 3 poimt shooter since he feeds him the ball in his sweet spot. the olays to the strenghts of his teammates. When Turner brings the ball up the court he often finds himself traped close to the basket and often lacks the court vision to find to open guy. Smart is a very nice defender but he isnt nowhere close to the offencive architekt Rondo is. You could say Rondo eats up his minutes but as long as Rondo is around Boston Smart will have a Mentor he can learn from. I really hope Rondo sticks to Boston for a couple more years since I love to watch him play. He never stops to amaze me. The reason we lose some games at the 4th is not Rondo. Celtics are a young team. Many of the guys have flaws but can be really good at nights. They still collect expirence. Learn to use their stenghts, learn to play thru oppents runs without losing their heads and finally get overpowered. They still have to learn that they have to concentrate till the game is over even with at 10+ point lead. And the team has still to figure out the 1-2 go to guys at crunch time because Rondo shouldnt be that guy but the guy who feeds them down the line. We don't have a Pierce anymore who could decide a game in the finial minutes. We have 4 other starters who have to step up in plays designed for em. Rondo will run those plays but the other 4 guys allways have to be ready to do exactly what is expected from them and nothing more. I belive that will take some time before they have reached that point. You can't expect guys like Oly started to belive he can beat most of the bigs on its why dribbling the ball to the basket for an easy layup over night. Once he figures that out for himself he will force those situations and get tons of foul shots. I don't mind if we are not making the playoffs as long as team team plays hard. I do'nt mind us losing a bunch of game in the 4th after having a big lead. I'm sure that will stop pretty soon from happen on a regular basis because the team easily can find the reason for those lses not their lack of skill but in their inexpeariance and the error they make thru the cource of a game. I belive we the Celtics can be a playoff team this year and they need Rondo to lead them. I don't want to see any more of what I hae seen at times last year when the team wasnt able to figure out ways to score, when they werent playing to their strenghts.

Hopefully my english isnt making you roll on the floor laughting - I hardly ever have to type a lot of it. I could post in german but you would understand even less. I could run spellcheck but I'm too lazy and sure that that they smart minority here will be able to make sense of my posts to some degree. For the rest I do not care since I can't help them anyways - every1 has his limits and I accepted to the point that I mostly laught reading about the ways they see things. Its like a stange mirror universe, with strange physics and ppl I know are alterated in many ways and lots of things that make me ponder a lot are eighter not existent for them or very clear and simple. Sometimes I really envy em for that, I truly do.

No, no your English is fine. I understood you clearly. This is one of the best analysis I've seen on Rondo's game. Most anti-Rondo folks can't make an anti-Rondo argument without it being riddled with contradictions. It's embarrassing really.

This is totally being assumptious on my part, but I bet those folks who understand Rondo's game  have higher IQ scores, than those who don't.