Michael Carter-Williams: Don't Talk to Me About Tanking

[Surferdad]

MCW sounds delusional.  Nobody thinks players tank.

People on these very forums have floated the ludicrously stupid idea of players actively helping their teams tank as part of some inane tacit agreement.

Yes. Why is this relatively simple concept so misunderstood?  Players and coaches gain NOTHING from tanking. Call me naive but I don't believe any active tanking goes on anywhere by any players or coaches, with the exception of the last 10 games of the season. There is just no reason to think players are not putting out their best. It does not benefit them individually. 

Management tanks. This is true. Philly management is tanking now but I am not as critical of them as most people. This is the way the system is set up. Their are working within the rules set down. I am strongly opposed to the league taking any action against them. It's just like when Stern nixed the deal to send CP3 to LA because it would make them too good.  He had no right to do that. The league should not meddle, and especially because it is the league that made the rules. 

[Nerf DPOY]

I most enjoyed MCW's depiction of the media as the collective piece of crap that it is.

[merkins]

That Sixer roster is so laughably bad I hope they are in the cellar for the next 10 years.

[obnoxiousmime]

It seems to me they took the best player available in Noel last year and the BPsA in Saric and Embiid this year, so what does it matter that they can't/couldn't play their first year? Teams that are good draft and stash Euros all the time, nobody said a team in the lottery wasn't allowed to do that. People want the Sixers to be ashamed of their record and make desperation, short-term moves but they refuse to make that mistake.

Besides, even if Noel or Embiid played their first year the team still would have been horrible, I mean these kids are 19 years old. It wouldn't have had a huge impact on their tanking ability.

People should be upset at the system, not the Sixers for exploiting it. In other words, don't hate the player, hate the game.

[manl_lui]

76ers so far in the 3rd qt with 7 minutes to go, scored 37 points and Dallas...scored 82 points

[LarBrd33]

I saw the score 84 to 37 and did a double-take. 

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Players may not tank but is it really hard to believe players don't play as well as they could because they know they can't win? Players play harder when there is something to win (like in the playoffs). It's hard to ask players to go out and give their all when they are that young, already paid millions, on a crappy team. Some will still give max effort because they are that way no matter what but you can't tell me a lot of players don't coast on natural ability b/c they know their team sucks. These are "kids" we are talking about.


My God, is that score real?? Should be illegal. Dallas has fallen asleep because anyone would in this situation. 0.0

[slamtheking]

It seems to me they took the best player available in Noel last year and the BPsA in Saric and Embiid this year, so what does it matter that they can't/couldn't play their first year? Teams that are good draft and stash Euros all the time, nobody said a team in the lottery wasn't allowed to do that. People want the Sixers to be ashamed of their record and make desperation, short-term moves but they refuse to make that mistake.

Besides, even if Noel or Embiid played their first year the team still would have been horrible, I mean these kids are 19 years old. It wouldn't have had a huge impact on their tanking ability.

People should be upset at the system, not the Sixers for exploiting it. In other words, don't hate the player, hate the game.

I'm learning to embrace it actually.  Philly will be a nice breeding ground for top young players that want to leave to play for better franchises.  Embiid or Noel would be a nice pick up when they hit free agency

[Endless Paradise]

Players may not tank but is it really hard to believe players don't play as well as they could because they know they can't win? Players play harder when there is something to win (like in the playoffs). It's hard to ask players to go out and give their all when they are that young, already paid millions, on a crappy team. Some will still give max effort because they are that way no matter what but you can't tell me a lot of players don't coast on natural ability b/c they know their team sucks. These are "kids" we are talking about.

A number of these guys on the Sixers are second rounders and undrafted players with largely nonguaranteed contracts for the rookie minimum.  They literally cannot afford to not play with full effort.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Players may not tank but is it really hard to believe players don't play as well as they could because they know they can't win? Players play harder when there is something to win (like in the playoffs). It's hard to ask players to go out and give their all when they are that young, already paid millions, on a crappy team. Some will still give max effort because they are that way no matter what but you can't tell me a lot of players don't coast on natural ability b/c they know their team sucks. These are "kids" we are talking about.

A number of these guys on the Sixers are second rounders and undrafted players with largely nonguaranteed contracts for the minimum.  They literally cannot afford to not play with full effort.

I get that but I'm talking as a whole, it's rare to see a team full of DL players, lots of players coast on bad teams.

Heck, players don't always give max effort on good teams. Like when you bring in a great defender off your bench, most of the other players step their defensive effort up. It's why you hear coaches saying our effort wasn't there and that's been said about some really good players on some of the best teams.

[Endless Paradise]

Players may not tank but is it really hard to believe players don't play as well as they could because they know they can't win? Players play harder when there is something to win (like in the playoffs). It's hard to ask players to go out and give their all when they are that young, already paid millions, on a crappy team. Some will still give max effort because they are that way no matter what but you can't tell me a lot of players don't coast on natural ability b/c they know their team sucks. These are "kids" we are talking about.

A number of these guys on the Sixers are second rounders and undrafted players with largely nonguaranteed contracts for the minimum.  They literally cannot afford to not play with full effort.

I get that but I'm talking as a whole, it's rare to see a team full of DL players, lots of players coast on bad teams.

I would suspect that apathy would be more of an issue with accomplished vets more so than rookies and younger players looking to make a name for themselves and establish earning potential for the future.  If anything, I would think the issue with rookies on bad teams is that they'd try too hard to prove themselves.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Players may not tank but is it really hard to believe players don't play as well as they could because they know they can't win? Players play harder when there is something to win (like in the playoffs). It's hard to ask players to go out and give their all when they are that young, already paid millions, on a crappy team. Some will still give max effort because they are that way no matter what but you can't tell me a lot of players don't coast on natural ability b/c they know their team sucks. These are "kids" we are talking about.

A number of these guys on the Sixers are second rounders and undrafted players with largely nonguaranteed contracts for the minimum.  They literally cannot afford to not play with full effort.

I get that but I'm talking as a whole, it's rare to see a team full of DL players, lots of players coast on bad teams.

I would suspect that apathy would be more of an issue with accomplished vets more so than rookies looking to make a name for themselves and establish earning potential for the future.  If anything, I would think the issue with rookies on bad teams is that they'd try too hard to prove themselves.

Maybe. If we weren't talking about a bunch of guys who came from little to no money and now are rich, and young. That's partially why people play better as they get older, a lot of their mentalities change and they mature. They learn what it takes to actually win in the NBA.

[obnoxiousmime]

It seems to me they took the best player available in Noel last year and the BPsA in Saric and Embiid this year, so what does it matter that they can't/couldn't play their first year? Teams that are good draft and stash Euros all the time, nobody said a team in the lottery wasn't allowed to do that. People want the Sixers to be ashamed of their record and make desperation, short-term moves but they refuse to make that mistake.

Besides, even if Noel or Embiid played their first year the team still would have been horrible, I mean these kids are 19 years old. It wouldn't have had a huge impact on their tanking ability.

People should be upset at the system, not the Sixers for exploiting it. In other words, don't hate the player, hate the game.

I'm learning to embrace it actually.  Philly will be a nice breeding ground for top young players that want to leave to play for better franchises.  Embiid or Noel would be a nice pick up when they hit free agency

Yes, but when will that be? The rules give the advantage to the original drafting team to keep their young players. It's possible a good player will play out his original rookie deal and then sign the qualifying offer to become an unrestricted free agent, but that's rare. The ones who tend to go that route are not the best players, otherwise their original team would have just given them the max without hesitation.

A player like Greg Monroe is in that situation. Is that the kind of free agent you'd be eager to be signing for 12 million +? Is he an impact player?

The NBA wants the original team to have an advantage in keeping their young players. Since players 23-24 years old are still establishing themselves, winning immediately is not necessarily their first priority. They want a max deal first and personal accolades, then they can start worrying about winning titles.

[Endless Paradise]

Players may not tank but is it really hard to believe players don't play as well as they could because they know they can't win? Players play harder when there is something to win (like in the playoffs). It's hard to ask players to go out and give their all when they are that young, already paid millions, on a crappy team. Some will still give max effort because they are that way no matter what but you can't tell me a lot of players don't coast on natural ability b/c they know their team sucks. These are "kids" we are talking about.

A number of these guys on the Sixers are second rounders and undrafted players with largely nonguaranteed contracts for the minimum.  They literally cannot afford to not play with full effort.

I get that but I'm talking as a whole, it's rare to see a team full of DL players, lots of players coast on bad teams.

I would suspect that apathy would be more of an issue with accomplished vets more so than rookies looking to make a name for themselves and establish earning potential for the future.  If anything, I would think the issue with rookies on bad teams is that they'd try too hard to prove themselves.

Maybe. If we weren't talking about a bunch of guys who came from little to no money and now are rich, and young. That's partially why people play better as they get older, a lot of their mentalities change and they mature. They learn what it takes to actually win in the NBA.

Thing is that as a rookie, you're limited with the money you can make.  Sure, $1 million is a lot of money if you're coming from relatively modest upbringings, but that's a pittance as an NBA player.  I really can't think of many notable cases of a guy on a rookie deal just resting on his laurels once he was drafted.  I can recall far more instances of veteran players working super hard in a contract year, getting a great contract, and then checking out.

[colincb]

Sixers have a worse point differential than the 92-93 Dallas Mavs who hold the record.