Rondo or Noah?

[TheFlex]

His AST% (percentage of teammates' field goals he assisted while on the floor) is slightly down from prior years, but I'm guessing that has to do with having above-average passing big men on the floor and Stevens' system emphasizing ball movement in general (and thus the team doesn't rely on Rondo to create every shot).

I take it you are going to claim that Garnett wasn't an "above-average passing big" or that Doc Rivers never subscribed to ball movement -- and that it is not at all possible that Rondo's HoF teammates made him look better than he actually is.

It's very hard to analyze Rondo's metrics this year and compare it to past years because of his ACL injury and the fact that the teams he's been on in years past are radically different than the one he's currently leading. One thing that we can see, though: In 2013-14 he shot .544 within 3 feet of the rim and .324 within 3-10 feet. This year's he's shooting .636 and .364, respectively, which would suggest he's regaining 2012-13-level explosiveness (that year he shot .598 and .427, respectively). We can only hope these sorts of trends continue.

You realize that this "trend" you're discussing is based on the fact that he's made 7 of his 11 layups so far, right?

For your first point, hardly, but thanks for putting words in my mouth. KG is one of the best passing bigs to play the game. However of the big men tandems Rondo has spent the most time with the most -- KG/Perk and Bass/KG -- vs. the current tandem he is working with, I would give the edge of Sully/Olynyk. Secondly, if LeBron James is better than KD, is KD bad? Doc understands the importance of ball movement but Stevens' offensive schemes encourage team ball movement at a far higher frequency than Doc's schemes ever did.

There is no evidence to support your claim that Rondo needs HoF teammates to be a great passer unless you would like to analyze the 30 games he played in last season without acknowledging the impact his injury had on his play. Such a lack of recognition is equally lacking in credibility as failing to recognize the small sample size used to justify Rondo's return to an elite level, which, of course, I never did.

In mentioning his basic box score stats, I claim that I expect his rebounding stats to dramatically change (dropping at least 3 rpg by the end of the year) due to this small sample size. In the first advanced statistic I give, I put in parenthesis next to the year 2014-15: "so far."

Using the word trend is hardly a failure to account for the small sample size factor. You're nitpicking to try to prove a point you've already convinced yourself of regardless of the evidence.

[mgent]

Rondo obviously.

Noah is a final piece, Rondo is a primary piece.  For instance, Rondo and Durant alone would be a really good contender, Noah and Durant not so much.  He is more of a 3rd or 4th piece.

[BballTim]

His AST% (percentage of teammates' field goals he assisted while on the floor) is slightly down from prior years, but I'm guessing that has to do with having above-average passing big men on the floor and Stevens' system emphasizing ball movement in general (and thus the team doesn't rely on Rondo to create every shot).

I take it you are going to claim that Garnett wasn't an "above-average passing big" or that Doc Rivers never subscribed to ball movement -- and that it is not at all possible that Rondo's HoF teammates made him look better than he actually is.

  Rondo's teammates didn't make him look better than he actually is. He's the one that ran that offense and made those passes. They were a fairly good environment for him though. Some very good shooters who were becoming less and less able to create their own offense who also had played with Rondo for years and had good BBIQs.

[LooseCannon]

Rondo is a year younger and less likely to be a physically broken-down player five years from now.  I think he is the better choice if you see building a team from scratch as a long-term process.

[Fafnir]

You realize that this "trend" you're discussing is based on the fact that he's made 7 of his 11 layups so far, right?

Rondo's inability to make shots around the basket was one of the biggest things holding him back last year. I'm excited to see him have the touch around the hoop again so far in the season. Dwight clearly bothered him in the lane, but he always has for good reason after all.

[smokeablount]

This is not a trade suggestion.



What I'm asking is if you are building a team from scratch, and have a choice to build around Rajon Rondo or Joakim Noah, who do you pick?

Each has been called an ultra role player: a guy who can't be the go-to scorer, but is elite in every other aspect of the game. Both are among the best passers, rebounders, and defenders at their respective positions. Both are leaders and step up their game in crunch time.

The easy answer here might be "there are more good PGs than Cs in the NBA." But I am hoping for a more in-depth conversation than that

When Durant and Horford (and Oden who actually was my 3rd choice) were clearly going to be unavailable with our pick in 2007, Rondo and Noah were my top two choices to draft (Jeff Green was actually 3rd), so I feel compelled to weigh in on this 7 years later.

Someone said they'd rather have Rondo in the playoffs, and so would I, but building a team defense, structure and even offensive ball movement system with Noah in the high post as a key initiator - that might be a better recipe for getting to the playoffs if both players command a max deal and both teams have an equal shot at filling out the roster.  The fact that there may be more elite point guards in their primes than SGs, PFs and Cs combined, that counts for sure.

The thing is, I don't really believe we can say Noah is the right answer over Rondo.  But I also don't think you can obviously say Rondo over Noah.  I think we're going to learn a lot in the next 2-3 years if we keep Rondo.  He'll be thrust into a role more like early Noah, an alpha dog on a young upstart, with Noah on a top 2 team in the East taking on a Rondo type of role- a top 2-3 guy on a true title contender.

We'll see what each guy can do in situations that aren't the same as the others' but have some similarities, how Rondo leads these pups, if Noah can make let alone win the finals as a top 2 guy on that team. I love to speculate, but this one is tough.

[smokeablount]

Mods can you delete this post?

[indeedproceed]

Noah. I like Rondo, but if Noah were a Boston Celtic he'd be canonized by now.

[Csfan1984]

Rondo.
Noah is good but not a great talent he just plays hard. 10pts/11rebs/2ast/1.5 blk doesn't scream special center. 12pts/5rebs/12ast/1.5stl sure is special for a PG. If Rondo was only a better ft% shooter this wouldn't even be debatable.

[BballTim]

Rondo.
Noah is good but not a great talent he just plays hard. 10pts/11rebs/2ast/1.5 blk doesn't scream special center. 12pts/5rebs/12ast/1.5stl sure is special for a PG. If Rondo was only a better ft% shooter this wouldn't even be debatable.

  True. Whether you agree with the argument or not, how many people would expect a playoff series with Noah and LeBron to end with a large number of people claiming that Noah was the best player in the series? How many people would expect to hear the same most of the way through another playoff series between them?

[SHAQATTACK]

Love to have both.

But,


Seeing the C's struggling on Defense in the paint .....pretty much since KG got old ....

I go,with Noah .

He is a tall Rondo...... All,energy and can't shoot a lick.

[Bankshot]

Really tough question.  I love Rondo, but love Noah as well.  I may go with Noah, because I think it's harder to find a good big man. 

I wish we can have both.

[kozlodoev]

You realize that this "trend" you're discussing is based on the fact that he's made 7 of his 11 layups so far, right?

Rondo's inability to make shots around the basket was one of the biggest things holding him back last year. I'm excited to see him have the touch around the hoop again so far in the season. Dwight clearly bothered him in the lane, but he always has for good reason after all.

I'm sure he's had 7 for 11 stretches before in his career, though.

[AB_Celtic]

Added a poll; probably should have had that from the beginning.

My choice is Rondo, pretty much for the reason BballTim outlined. If it's game 7, I'm trusting Rondo to carry the team more than I would Noah. Still, Noah's one of my favorite players in the league, which is why I asked this in the first place.

[BballTim]

You realize that this "trend" you're discussing is based on the fact that he's made 7 of his 11 layups so far, right?

Rondo's inability to make shots around the basket was one of the biggest things holding him back last year. I'm excited to see him have the touch around the hoop again so far in the season. Dwight clearly bothered him in the lane, but he always has for good reason after all.

I'm sure he's had 7 for 11 stretches before in his career, though.

  Yes, 08-09 through 12-13 was pretty close to one, basically a 6.83/11 stretch.