Biggest Disappointment So Far

[Fafnir]

Or Tony Parker for that matter. Fisher was a bad defender and all he did his last year was spot up and "defend".

[RJ87]

He isn't pressuring the ball as much as Bradley or as far away from the basket, but we're not getting lit up by the guy Rondo's guarding much more than the guy Avery's guarding.

This is a bit of a chicken and the egg phenomenon, though, because AB typically guards the better offensive player between the two of them.

In regards to assists, there's some evidence that they're the most easily replicated part of a box score for a team, which is not to say that all assists are created equal.

I've had no problems with Rondo's defense this year personally, much better than last year both in his movement and effort. He's not going back to 2008-2009 Rondo, he's older and has to do ten times more offensively.

Do you think our offense is the problem right now? Rondo then needs to then take some focus/effort off the offensive end and concentrate a little more on the defensive end.

Also why cant he go back to playing d like he did 4 years ago? He is still pretty quick.  Tony Parker, chris paul are 4 years older and still playing tough man on man D. Derek Fisher also was able to play very good man to man defense until like 37.

Rondo does not have to play defense like Ab or smart. Not many in the league can.  He just has to try to stay in front of his man , fights through picks and not lose sight of him.  Calm down on trying to get steals vs just good traditional man on man D.

We really need that right now. Usually when the opposing pg gets through (drive by or pnr) and the ball is swinging left to right or right to left, until it finds a wide open man.Then on the offensive end ,the team is huffing and puffing and cant score.   A bad defensive job by a pg can cause this kind of domino effect on both ends.

Again, you completely ignore the fact that AB usually defends the point of attack when he and Rondo start. Example: in the Dallas game, AB started out on Jameer and Rondo primarily defended Monta Ellis (who had his worst shooting game of the young season, btw). Having AB pressure the ball and allowing Rondo to play the passing lanes isn't a new tactic - but let's be honest, even AB's defense has slipped since he's gotten more offense-minded but you never comment on that. He doesn't fight over picks has easily as he used to. I think you hold Rondo to standards that even your binky players aren't capable of maintaining. Nevermind the fact that he's leading the team in assists and steals and rebounding like a big.

As far as the original topic and the biggest disappointment, I have to say Olynyk. He still looks hesitant a lot of the time. It's maddening how many times he'll pass up an open shot by pump faking, dribbling and forcing himself into a more awkward position. I also think the Sully/Olynyk pairing is a killer on the defensive end - Sully's actually gotten better in that regard and he's even blocking some shots, but he really would benefit from having a defensive minded player next to him the frontcourt.

[BballTim]

Or Tony Parker for that matter. Fisher was a bad defender and all he did his last year was spot up and "defend".

  Beat me to it. Chris Paul is a very good defender. TP is average(ish). Fisher? No way.

[kozlodoev]

Or Tony Parker for that matter. Fisher was a bad defender and all he did his last year was spot up and "defend".

  Beat me to it. Chris Paul is a very good defender. TP is average(ish). Fisher? No way.

Interesting. I've always thought that Paul is a horrible defender who gets a lot of steals by gambling in the passing lanes, Iverson-style.

[D.o.s.]

Or Tony Parker for that matter. Fisher was a bad defender and all he did his last year was spot up and "defend".

  Beat me to it. Chris Paul is a very good defender. TP is average(ish). Fisher? No way.

Interesting. I've always thought that Paul is a horrible defender who gets a lot of steals by gambling in the passing lanes, Iverson-style.

While being a good defender and a player that's good at getting steals are two different things, I'll never understand why steals remain the Rodney Dangerfield of the box score, particularly when they're so irreplaceable.

[kozlodoev]

he's older and has to do ten times more offensively.

Maybe he has to, but there's certainly no evidence that he does.

  Not literally 10 times more, but I think it's fairly obvious that he does much more on offense than he did in 08-09. The "evidence", aside from an increase in ast% and usage%, would probably be those advanced metrics that you get on nba.com that aren't available going back that far.

His usage % hasn't budged much over the last three season (21%, give or take half a percentage point). It is actually considerably lower this season (18%), not that three games are indicative of anything. Assist % has dropped quite dramatically over that period (53% to 48% last year to 43% this year).

For my money, the offensive load he's carrying doesn't seem to be dramatically different, unless you're applying some unquantifiable "eye test".

[BballTim]

Or Tony Parker for that matter. Fisher was a bad defender and all he did his last year was spot up and "defend".

  Beat me to it. Chris Paul is a very good defender. TP is average(ish). Fisher? No way.

Interesting. I've always thought that Paul is a horrible defender who gets a lot of steals by gambling in the passing lanes, Iverson-style.

  I think he's a better defender than he was the first 1-2 years after his knee injury, when his play was fairly mediocre. I don't see him a lot, but when I do he seems to play (at least over the last  few years) decent man to man defense. If you compare him to Rondo he seems to stick closer to his man (off the ball and farther from the basket) and makes a lot of plays when the ball gets close to him or his man. Rondo strays farther from his man off the ball and creates more general havoc for an opposing offense. I'd say CP is better than average.

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I'm with the group disappointed that Zeller hasn't earned the starting 5 job yet.  I'm on the Sully/Zeller starting pair bandwagon.

But then Bass would easily beat out Olynyk for first-big-off-the-bench honors, which really happens to be his ideal gig in the NBA.

Showing KO for exhibition purposes is the only thing that makes sense to me at some point.  But I really like big guys. 

Anyone find any comparison between Zeller's game and old Tony Battie?

[BballTim]

he's older and has to do ten times more offensively.

Maybe he has to, but there's certainly no evidence that he does.

  Not literally 10 times more, but I think it's fairly obvious that he does much more on offense than he did in 08-09. The "evidence", aside from an increase in ast% and usage%, would probably be those advanced metrics that you get on nba.com that aren't available going back that far.

His usage % hasn't budged much over the last three season (21%, give or take half a percentage point). It is actually considerably lower this season (18%), not that three games are indicative of anything. Assist % has dropped quite dramatically over that period (53% to 48% last year to 43% this year).

For my money, the offensive load he's carrying doesn't seem to be dramatically different, unless you're applying some unquantifiable "eye test".

  I am applying an eye test. But I agree his role in the offense hasn't grown much (if at all) over the last 3 years. I think the difference between anything after 2010-2011 and the 08-09 season (especially before the KG injury) is pretty noticeable.

[kozlodoev]

Or Tony Parker for that matter. Fisher was a bad defender and all he did his last year was spot up and "defend".

  Beat me to it. Chris Paul is a very good defender. TP is average(ish). Fisher? No way.

Interesting. I've always thought that Paul is a horrible defender who gets a lot of steals by gambling in the passing lanes, Iverson-style.

While being a good defender and a player that's good at getting steals are two different things, I'll never understand why steals remain the Rodney Dangerfield of the box score, particularly when they're so irreplaceable.

Because there's nothing irreplaceable about being caught out of position trying to swipe the ball?

[kozlodoev]

  I am applying an eye test. But I agree his role in the offense hasn't grown much (if at all) over the last 3 years. I think the difference between anything after 2010-2011 and the 08-09 season (especially before the KG injury) is pretty noticeable.

Fair enough. I'm just afraid that sticking to just that role won't be enough in a post-KG, post-Pierce world.

[Tr1boy]

Or Tony Parker for that matter. Fisher was a bad defender and all he did his last year was spot up and "defend".

  Beat me to it. Chris Paul is a very good defender. TP is average(ish). Fisher? No way.

Interesting. I've always thought that Paul is a horrible defender who gets a lot of steals by gambling in the passing lanes, Iverson-style.

  I think he's a better defender than he was the first 1-2 years after his knee injury, when his play was fairly mediocre. I don't see him a lot, but when I do he seems to play (at least over the last  few years) decent man to man defense. If you compare him to Rondo he seems to stick closer to his man (off the ball and farther from the basket) and makes a lot of plays when the ball gets close to him or his man. Rondo strays farther from his man off the ball and creates more general havoc for an opposing offense. I'd say CP is better than average.

General havoc? 

How about resulting the guy he is guarding having  1 sec too much time to shoot. Have to go around the pnr instead of through it? The way rondo plays defense works vs pg thay cant shoot. How many pgs outside of rondo cant shoot if given a sec?

As he ages, he wont be able to recover as quickly to try to bother his man from shooting.   Rondo should learn from guys like paul, parker and stay closer to his man.  Backpeddle to prevent the drive instead of giving up, octopus wrap attempt and expecting others to bail you out.

[Donoghus]

  I am applying an eye test. But I agree his role in the offense hasn't grown much (if at all) over the last 3 years. I think the difference between anything after 2010-2011 and the 08-09 season (especially before the KG injury) is pretty noticeable.

Fair enough. I'm just afraid that sticking to just that role won't be enough in a post-KG, post-Pierce world.

The role would be fine if he had some horses around him.  The problem is the roster is horribly constructed for offense at the moment.  Green has been a ray of sunlight in the early part but we've all been there before. 

I do feel that if this team is going to be successful much these season, its going to be, in large part, due to a higher usage of Rondo.   Because they really have no other choice.

[BballTim]

Or Tony Parker for that matter. Fisher was a bad defender and all he did his last year was spot up and "defend".

  Beat me to it. Chris Paul is a very good defender. TP is average(ish). Fisher? No way.

Interesting. I've always thought that Paul is a horrible defender who gets a lot of steals by gambling in the passing lanes, Iverson-style.

  I think he's a better defender than he was the first 1-2 years after his knee injury, when his play was fairly mediocre. I don't see him a lot, but when I do he seems to play (at least over the last  few years) decent man to man defense. If you compare him to Rondo he seems to stick closer to his man (off the ball and farther from the basket) and makes a lot of plays when the ball gets close to him or his man. Rondo strays farther from his man off the ball and creates more general havoc for an opposing offense. I'd say CP is better than average.

General havoc? 

How about resulting the guy he is guarding having  1 sec too much time to shoot. Have to go around the pnr instead of through it? The way rondo plays defense works vs pg thay cant shoot. How many pgs outside of rondo cant shoot if given a sec?

  They seem to have discontinued mysynergysports.com (argh!) but it's never been the case aside from last year that the player Rondo was guarding had an overly high shooting percentage against him. That wasn't the case in the older 82games stats either. What you're complaining about was never really a problem for most of his career.

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I do feel that if this team is going to be successful much these season, its going to be, in large part, due to a higher usage of Rondo.   Because they really have no other choice.

I do definitely agree that we actually can be somewhat successful by using our veterans (which is what Doc would be doing).  Not only Rondo, but Bradley, Green and Bass as well, with a splash of Thornton and Wallace on some nights.

There's enough veteran savvy, grit and balls among those guys to make a run.

Rondo, Bradley, and Bass have all shown stepped-up games in the playoffs (see Bass vs. Carmelo in our round 1 loss).

Wins and losses might come down to whether the minutes go to Bass or KO, and whether CBS develops a bench with its own identity, or is always mix and matching and tinkering.

CBS:  "Let's see what tools we have and try things out"

Doc:  "Go do your job.  Both ends."

Doc would rather play Wallace and Bass at center than watch the defensive Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. show that is Kelly Olynyk moving laterally,.