Time to think about starting Smart

[Neurotic Guy]

Loving MS -- his energy, defense and intelligence on the court.  More time for him for sure --  but not sure it's best to change the starting lineup and add another weak shooter.

[furball]

I definitely wouldn't start three guards.  But like I said in the Zeller thread, he needs more time and they have to go with a smaller rotation.  Get Thornton out of the rotation and go with Rondo, Bradley, and Smart at the guard spots (with Turner handling the ball some). 

[Tr1boy]

I don't like starting with 3 guards. Better to use it as a substitution lineup, definitely should be something put out there for stretches most games.

Yes but then you might have a bad start again.  It makes it very difficult and stressful to always try to comeback

[Fafnir]

I don't like starting with 3 guards. Better to use it as a substitution lineup, definitely should be something put out there for stretches most games.

Yes but then you might have a bad start again.  It makes it very difficult and stressful to always try to comeback

Too early to declare the 3 guard lineup as our best option. Especially given that its more likely to run into trouble against bigger SFs/PFs in the starting line ups.

[LooseCannon]

I don't think you should start Smart in a three-guard lineup, but I suspect that this team will maximize wins if Smart and Wallace take away minutes from Thornton and Turner.

Start the lineup that began the third quarter.

[Celtics4ever]

Three guard will work good against older teams because we took over the game pace with them and constant pressure and teams with suspect ball handling.   Against a good PG , I would not use it as he will shred it.   

[blink]

I don't think Smart should be starting.  He has shown a lot of potential in the pre-season and start of the season.  Lets keep bringing him along slowly and put him in positions where he will be successful.  I think having him as a 6th or 7th man takes the pressure off of him to be a scorer, and lets him get some minutes against the other teams bench.  Our problems in the last 2 games haven't been because Smart isn't starting.

[jpotter33]

I think something like Rondo, Bradley, Smart, Green, Sullinger would work for a team like Toronto, because their three guard, Ross or Derozan, isn't necessarily huge compared to Smart and wouldn't create great mismatches on our defensive end.  Furthermore, Green would kill Johnson on the perimeter with his quickness, though I don't think this lineup could start every night.

[clover]

Here's how the starting five have, well, started:

Jay King ‏@ByJayKing  18m18 minutes ago
Through three games (albeit against really good offenses), Cs starting lineup getting torched to tune of 119.2 points per 100 possessions.

[BballTim]

Here's how the starting five have, well, started:

Jay King ?@ByJayKing  18m18 minutes ago
Through three games (albeit against really good offenses), Cs starting lineup getting torched to tune of 119.2 points per 100 possessions.

  FWIW, the three teams we played are averaging (from Bballref) 117 points per 100 possessions.

[clover]

Here's how the starting five have, well, started:

Jay King ?@ByJayKing  18m18 minutes ago
Through three games (albeit against really good offenses), Cs starting lineup getting torched to tune of 119.2 points per 100 possessions.

  FWIW, the three teams we played are averaging (from Bballref) 117 points per 100 possessions.

Of course, all three teams also had the good fortune to play the Celtics in this first week of the season.

[BballTim]

Here's how the starting five have, well, started:

Jay King ?@ByJayKing  18m18 minutes ago
Through three games (albeit against really good offenses), Cs starting lineup getting torched to tune of 119.2 points per 100 possessions.

  FWIW, the three teams we played are averaging (from Bballref) 117 points per 100 possessions.

Of course, all three teams also had the good fortune to play the Celtics in this first week of the season.

  They're 1-2-3 on offense so you'd expect us to be last in defense but we're 22nd or so. Our DRtg is 109, well below their combined average.

[chambers]

You can't start three guards like this unless the team we're playing is tiny and can't rebound.
Who rebounds the ball in this line up?
Uncle snooze is a horrid rebounder and Olynyk isn't the hardest presence in the paint.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the 3 guard line up as defensive pitbulls and Avery and Smart running around and cutting for Rondo, but there just isn't enough size to compete with NBA teams inside to make it a consistent starting lineup.

Sullinger is our best presence inside and basically has to start all games because he can play both inside and out. I think if you are going to start Smart at the 3 then you should bench Olynyk and put Sullinger in the paint next to Green.

This 3 guard lineup is better for stretches during the game to create match up problems even when we are undersized, and best done vs weaker opponent line ups so we can crush their bench unit's guards.

[mmmmm]

I don't think you should start Smart in a three-guard lineup, but I suspect that this team will maximize wins if Smart and Wallace take away minutes from Thornton and Turner.

Start the lineup that began the third quarter.

Rondo, Bradley, Green, Sully & Olynyk started the third quarter.  They played to the 6:35 mark of the period, going on a 21-8 run before Olynyk sub'ed out (replaced by Marcus Smart).

They traded a Parsons' 2pt layup for a Bradley 3PT shot before Green and Sully sat down to rest for Turner and Zeller with 5:04 remaining in the 3rd.

At that point, just like near the end of the first period, the bench struggled, though not nearly as disastrous as in the 1st.  At the end of the first period, when the same bench unit came in, the Mavs ripped off a 15-4 run in less than 4 minutes.  This time, Dallas ripped off a more modest 9-4 run, pushing the lead back out to 15 before Green came back in (replacing Smart) at the 2:39 mark followed a bit later by the other starters.  From that point the Celtics resumed their comeback attempt.

For all the talk about defensive intensity and what not - the two stretches of the game that hurt the Celtics the worst BY FAR were clearly when we went to our bench (Smart, Turner, Thornton, Bass & Zeller) at the end of the first and 3rd periods.   Both times, the Mavs went on big runs.

[mmmmm]

Here's how the starting five have, well, started:

Jay King ?@ByJayKing  18m18 minutes ago
Through three games (albeit against really good offenses), Cs starting lineup getting torched to tune of 119.2 points per 100 possessions.

  FWIW, the three teams we played are averaging (from Bballref) 117 points per 100 possessions.

Of course, all three teams also had the good fortune to play the Celtics in this first week of the season.

  They're 1-2-3 on offense so you'd expect us to be last in defense but we're 22nd or so. Our DRtg is 109, well below their combined average.

Just to pull the details out, the C's starting lineup (RR+AB+JG+JS+KO) has posted the following DRtgs (offensive points per 100 possessions) in each game:

BKN   11.8 minutes,  126.1
HOU  4.6 minutes,  140.0
DAL  12.0 minutes, 107.4

In the Houston game, Brad swapped out all over the place -- no 5-man lineup got even 8 minutes on the floor together.   I hope he doesn't do that too often.

Oh, and before someone asks, here are the offensive numbers for the starting five from each game:

BKN   11.8 minutes,  141.7
HOU  4.6 minutes,  44.4   <-- this is what happens when you go 0-5 on 3PT shots!
DAL  12.0 minutes, 135.7 

The Houston game is obviously the killer to their ratings, but is small and eventually will lose it's statistical weight.

An important thing to take away is that during the 12 minutes the starters were on the floor against Dallas, while they started out slow, they actually ended up out-playing Dallas' starters by a significant margin.

Our bench, though?   Well, let's just say … Evan Turner had a bad day.   The 5-man 'pure bench' unit of Smart+Thornton+Turner+Bass+Zeller played just 3.6 minutes against Dallas and coughed up a net -7 points on the scoreboard.   Two other lineups that Turner got on the floor with coughed up another combined -7 points in a combined 8.6 minutes. 

All the rest of our 5-man units against Dallas either were even or positive on the scoreboard against Dallas.  Only one of those, which played for just 2.1 minutes, had Turner on it.

I don't mean to pick on Turner, but Dallas - and specifically Chandler Parsons - is a really bad match up for him.  In each of those 'bad lineups" ET was in the SF role on defense and Parsons ate him up.  Parsons is just way too long (3 inches taller!) and quick for Turner to defend.