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Faried and Nuggets agree to 5-year, $60 million extension
« on: October 06, 2014, 10:57:53 AM »

Offline saltlover

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5th year partially guaranteed.

Nothing like a new TV deal with a pending cap jump to spur on negotiations!

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--kenneth-faried-agrees-to--60m-extension-with-nuggets-063753982.html

Re: Faried and Nuggets agree to 5-year, $60 million extension
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2014, 11:35:47 AM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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5th year partially guaranteed.

Nothing like a new TV deal with a pending cap jump to spur on negotiations!

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--kenneth-faried-agrees-to--60m-extension-with-nuggets-063753982.html
yes, the salary landscape is shifting even as we type. faried gets $12 million a year. this should be taken as an indicator what the celtics will need to pay sully, olly, and zelly in the not too distant future.

salary negotiations will be interesting.
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Re: Faried and Nuggets agree to 5-year, $60 million extension
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2014, 11:46:07 AM »

Offline 317

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he probably picked up ~$1 million per from his play in the world championships.

Re: Faried and Nuggets agree to 5-year, $60 million extension
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2014, 11:51:35 AM »

Offline gpap

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5th year partially guaranteed.

Nothing like a new TV deal with a pending cap jump to spur on negotiations!

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--kenneth-faried-agrees-to--60m-extension-with-nuggets-063753982.html
yes, the salary landscape is shifting even as we type. faried gets $12 million a year. this should be taken as an indicator what the celtics will need to pay sully, olly, and zelly in the not too distant future.

salary negotiations will be interesting.

Lol, let's see how the season goes.


Re: Faried and Nuggets agree to 5-year, $60 million extension
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2014, 11:53:52 AM »

Offline mgent

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That's it?

It's so hard for me to understand the market now that Hayward is making 15+ per year.  I mean, Faried is only 4 months older, and he was just our best player on the World Cup team (which included Cousins and Anthony Davis).  Plus he's a big.  Hayward would have been even further down the bench than DeRozan (who only makes 9 per year).
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: Faried and Nuggets agree to 5-year, $60 million extension
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2014, 11:56:31 AM »

Offline gpap

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That's it?

It's so hard for me to understand the market now that Hayward is making 15+ per year.  I mean, Faried is only 4 months older, and he was just our best player on the World Cup team (which included Cousins and Anthony Davis).  Plus he's a big.  Hayward would have been even further down the bench than DeRozan (who only makes 9 per year).

You know what that means, don't you?

Jeff Green is going to get paid so much, he'll have 100 dollar bills falling out of his hair like it's dandruff.

Re: Faried and Nuggets agree to 5-year, $60 million extension
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2014, 12:06:01 PM »

Offline MBunge

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That's it?

It's so hard for me to understand the market now that Hayward is making 15+ per year.  I mean, Faried is only 4 months older, and he was just our best player on the World Cup team (which included Cousins and Anthony Davis).  Plus he's a big.  Hayward would have been even further down the bench than DeRozan (who only makes 9 per year).

The best I can figure is this...

Faried is most attractive to teams that are already really good.  Those teams, however, don't have oodles of money to spend on "energy" guys.  Bad teams that have a lot of money to spend don't see Faried as a guy who is going to have enough of an impact to justify throwing cash at him.

I can't explain Hayward, other than the long history of dumb contract offers in the NBA.

Mike

Re: Faried and Nuggets agree to 5-year, $60 million extension
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2014, 12:07:58 PM »

Offline Endless Paradise

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The very nature of restricted free agency means that good-to-really-good players are often going to be overpaid, which explains the Hayward and Parsons contracts (as well as earlier contracts like Eric Gordon's).  I can't remember which article I read a few months back that explored this in greater detail, but it found that restricted free agents often ended up receiving extremely large raises on their next contracts relative to unrestricted free agents: something like 150% for RFAs to 125% for UFA.

Re: Faried and Nuggets agree to 5-year, $60 million extension
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2014, 12:11:15 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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The very nature of restricted free agency means that good-to-really-good players are often going to be overpaid, which explains the Hayward and Parsons contracts (as well as earlier contracts like Eric Gordon's).  I can't remember which article I read a few months back that explored this in greater detail, but it found that restricted free agents often ended up receiving extremely large raises on their next contracts relative to unrestricted free agents: something like 150% for RFAs to 125% for UFA.
I view it as a more feast or famine situation.

You tend to get bargains in RFA, or overpaid if someone throws a massive offer to try and discourage a match.

Re: Faried and Nuggets agree to 5-year, $60 million extension
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2014, 12:29:32 PM »

Offline saltlover

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The very nature of restricted free agency means that good-to-great players are often going to be overpaid, which explains the Hayward and Parsons contracts (as well as earlier contracts like Eric Gordon's).  I can't remember which article I read a few months back that explored this in greater detail, but it found that restricted free agents often ended up receiving extremely large raises on their next contracts relative to unrestricted free agents: something like 150% for RFAs to 125% for UFA.

Didn't read that article, but based on your memory, that analysis sounds suspect.  RFAs, by rule, are players with limited experience in the NBA, who are coming off of rookie contracts and/or small contracts awarded to second-round picks.  So their salaries on average will be lower, allowing for a greater percentage increase in contract.  Furthermore, to be an RFA means your original team liked you enough to make you a qualifying offer, which means that the RFA pool of players won't consist of players who will have trouble finding a contract -- qualifying offers are already a substantial raise to the player's prior salary, and that's a mere starting offer.  The UFA pool could certainly include players who will wind up with a salary cut in a new contract -- that's impossible for any player who's an RFA.

Maybe the analysis was more nuanced than you're remembering, but if not, it's conclusion doesn't speak to players being overpaid as RFA's, but rather them being underpaid prior to being RFA's.

The reason why some RFA's get paid more is this:

1) Team A extends a qualifying offer.
2) Team A threatens to match any qualifying offer, hoping to deter suitors and re-sign the player for less than market value.  Call it the Greg Monroe and Eric Bledsoe strategy.  It might have worked a little for Bledsoe -- it worked for Monroe in that Detroit gets him for cheap for a year, but he'll likely be gone next year.
3) Team B tries to call Team A's bluff and offers the player an above-market contract, because they have the money and have no better way to spend it this off-season.
4) Team A either follows through on the threat (Hayward) or doesn't (Parsons).  In either case, the player gets paid a ton.

Players earning rookie extensions bypass this process, but that process still informs how each side negotiates.

Wtih AB, The Celtics started by following steps 1 and 2, but changed plans slightly in that before having their bluff called, they decided to make an offer Bradley would accept.  They gave up some of the discount they might have gotten if no one called the bluff, but also got a discount on someone coming in with an offer substantially over market.

The other reason RFA's (and guys eligible for rookie extensions) get paid big is because of potential.  They're young, and NBA players typically peak from about 27-30, which is at the end of most of these contracts.  Especially with an extension, you're only offering a contract based on 3 years of NBA experience.  Sometimes you get a bargain, like DeMar DeRozan or Rondo, sometimes you get an albatross like Tyrus Thomas, and sometimes you get a player who's paid about what he's worth.

Re: Faried and Nuggets agree to 5-year, $60 million extension
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2014, 12:29:57 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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The very nature of restricted free agency means that good-to-really-good players are often going to be overpaid, which explains the Hayward and Parsons contracts (as well as earlier contracts like Eric Gordon's).  I can't remember which article I read a few months back that explored this in greater detail, but it found that restricted free agents often ended up receiving extremely large raises on their next contracts relative to unrestricted free agents: something like 150% for RFAs to 125% for UFA.

There's also the fact that the Jazz, for better or worse, are an organization that prioritizes home grown (i.e. drafted) talent over free agency.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: Faried and Nuggets agree to 5-year, $60 million extension
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2014, 12:43:16 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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The very nature of restricted free agency means that good-to-really-good players are often going to be overpaid, which explains the Hayward and Parsons contracts (as well as earlier contracts like Eric Gordon's).  I can't remember which article I read a few months back that explored this in greater detail, but it found that restricted free agents often ended up receiving extremely large raises on their next contracts relative to unrestricted free agents: something like 150% for RFAs to 125% for UFA.

Eric Bledsoe anybody?

Re: Faried and Nuggets agree to 5-year, $60 million extension
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2014, 12:53:20 PM »

Offline Endless Paradise

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The very nature of restricted free agency means that good-to-great players are often going to be overpaid, which explains the Hayward and Parsons contracts (as well as earlier contracts like Eric Gordon's).  I can't remember which article I read a few months back that explored this in greater detail, but it found that restricted free agents often ended up receiving extremely large raises on their next contracts relative to unrestricted free agents: something like 150% for RFAs to 125% for UFA.

The reason why some RFA's get paid more is this:

1) Team A extends a qualifying offer.
2) Team A threatens to match any qualifying offer, hoping to deter suitors and re-sign the player for less than market value.  Call it the Greg Monroe and Eric Bledsoe strategy.  It might have worked a little for Bledsoe -- it worked for Monroe in that Detroit gets him for cheap for a year, but he'll likely be gone next year.
3) Team B tries to call Team A's bluff and offers the player an above-market contract, because they have the money and have no better way to spend it this off-season.
4) Team A either follows through on the threat (Hayward) or doesn't (Parsons).  In either case, the player gets paid a ton.

That's essentially what the article was suggesting and basically my point: prime RFAs end up getting huge offers from other teams because the only possible way those teams can get those guys is by making an offer large enough to deter their original teams from matching.  That's why guys like Hayward and Parsons can make ~$15.5 million a year, whereas a guy like Lance Stephenson had to settle for $9 million.  Sure, Lance took a bit of a hit 'cause crazy, but I doubt anyone would really believe the Hornets thought Hayward was worth nearly twice as much as Lance.  The contract incentives worked into those deals makes it all the more apparent (player option, trade kicker).  Those are inherently team-unfriendly aspects of a contract and they're all the better for souring a team on matching an offer to a RFA.

This article covers it a little:

http://grantland.com/features/the-murky-waters-restricted-free-agency-their-way-2014/

It's not the one I brought up before, but it gets the point across: good RFAs will get paid.  Overpaid, even.

And Bledsoe got that contract because the Suns knew they'd likely have to pay even more to keep him next season if he signed the qualifying offer for this year, especially in light of the NBA signing the new TV deal.  As Zach Lowe noted, that's why they also hammered the Morris twins deals as quickly as they did.

Edit: also, just a note, this article was exploring pay discrepancies between RFAs and UFAs coming off their first contracts.  So it wasn't factoring in veteran UFAs vs. RFAs coming off their rookie-scale contracts.  Tenure was a controlled variable.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2014, 01:09:49 PM by Endless Paradise »

Re: Faried and Nuggets agree to 5-year, $60 million extension
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2014, 08:22:05 AM »

Offline TheTruthFot18

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Am I the only one who sees this as too much?

I like Faried a lot but where did this new found love for undersized big men come from? Isn't that why we criticize Sully, Green, and Bass especially. I actually feel like Faried is just a younger more athletic Bass.

I guess it makes sense in Denver where its a fast paced offense only team. I'd rather have Sully anyway but would still not give him more than 10/year (assuming more improvement this year).
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Re: Faried and Nuggets agree to 5-year, $60 million extension
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2014, 09:16:20 AM »

Offline Endless Paradise

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Am I the only one who sees this as too much?

I like Faried a lot but where did this new found love for undersized big men come from? Isn't that why we criticize Sully, Green, and Bass especially. I actually feel like Faried is just a younger more athletic Bass.

I guess it makes sense in Denver where its a fast paced offense only team. I'd rather have Sully anyway but would still not give him more than 10/year (assuming more improvement this year).

They're slightly overpaying him now to avoid having to grossly overpay him next summer with the potential of significantly higher salary cap, depending on how the NBA and the NBPA go about implementing the salary cap jump as a result of the new TV deal.