C's scrimmage notes

[moiso]

- when green went out, we had no go to scorer, became a jump shooting team on both ends.

I would argue that there's no 'go to' scorer even with Green out there, but this speaks to the key to this team getting out of Lottery-ville.  They need someone - anyone - who can still score when he's being guarded.  Green is not that guy.  Hoping one of Turner/Smart/Young can morph into that guy or we'll be among the top 6 lottery picks once again.  This team won't win again until it finds someone who can do that.

There's a lot of hate on green on this forum, he showed in this scrimmage when he did play, albeit he didn't have much points , but green is going to be a go to scorer this year and put up great numbers.

He was double teamed all scrimmage, still brought it to the hoop a couple times, went up for rebounds and made a 3 in two peoples mouth. Kid looks a lot more aggressive and more confident. The fact that Stevens was having the defense double team him all game is a sign, he's been doing well during camp and that the coaching staff believes, opposing teams are going to double him a lot.
 
-JP

I don't agree with much that's in this post.  Green was confident in half of a scrimmage, therefore he is going to suddenly become a go to scorer??  We're talking about practice!  Half of a practice!

[SHAQATTACK]

I noted Sully's rear looked two axe handles wide

[bleedGREENdon]

- when green went out, we had no go to scorer, became a jump shooting team on both ends.

I would argue that there's no 'go to' scorer even with Green out there, but this speaks to the key to this team getting out of Lottery-ville.  They need someone - anyone - who can still score when he's being guarded.  Green is not that guy.  Hoping one of Turner/Smart/Young can morph into that guy or we'll be among the top 6 lottery picks once again.  This team won't win again until it finds someone who can do that.

There's a lot of hate on green on this forum, he showed in this scrimmage when he did play, albeit he didn't have much points , but green is going to be a go to scorer this year and put up great numbers.

He was double teamed all scrimmage, still brought it to the hoop a couple times, went up for rebounds and made a 3 in two peoples mouth. Kid looks a lot more aggressive and more confident. The fact that Stevens was having the defense double team him all game is a sign, he's been doing well during camp and that the coaching staff believes, opposing teams are going to double him a lot.
 
-JP

I don't agree with much that's in this post.  Green was confident in half of a scrimmage, therefore he is going to suddenly become a go to scorer??  We're talking about practice!  Half of a practice!

Ok.

[blink]

Would be great if Sully and Kelly start together and kill it on offense (pray their defense has improved), all the pretty passing and shooting. I know people want it to be Zeller but I don't.

The more I think about it, the more I think Olynyk will beat out Zeller for starting center spot.

I don't think Zeller is all that different / superior as a defender or rebounder to Olynyk. Both are physically incapable of matching up against opposing centers due to lack of strength + length. Both players are physically and athletically overmatched on nightly basis as starting centers. Neither are adequate shot-blockers. Neither guy really known for their defense (man defense or team defense). Zeller has a bit more experience but talent wise I think they are working with similar tools (as they start NBA careers). And it's only a small gap experience wise (one year).

So I think Olynyk has a good chance at matching Tyler Zeller's contributions as a defender & rebounder. Offensively, however, Olynyk is a much more skilled player and I think the difference in that phase of the game will be larger than the differences defensively or as a rebounder.

Actually Zeller is far stronger and more athletic than Olynyk. Olynyk is far more skilled, though. They are really different, and I bet Zeller is a superior defender just for defensive mobility. Going up for blocks and having a crazy amount of length (though this is still obviously important) is meaning less and less in the modern day NBA. It's about being smart and having the quickness to challenge each and every shot possible by fronting your man or making their shot difficult. It's also about being able to make decisions quickly on where to be. Zeller is known for his rim running and above average athleticism for a 7 footer.

You could be right about Oly starting, and I think it could definitely happy with Smart possibly starting at PG until Rondo is back. I just really disagree that they are both on the same level in terms of defensive potential. The big thing is Zeller WANTS to defend the post. Half the battle when defending the paint is having the right mentality, imo. He's 270 with good quickness.

During the scrimmage, Olynyk looked stronger than zeller, not once was out athletisized ( you know what I mean).


After the scrimmage , I really want to see this starting 5. This starting 5 would probably win a majority of our first 10 games. Might shock a lot of people.

Smart
Bradley
Green
Sully
Kelly

Bench

Pressey
Young ( or Gerald Wallace, preferably young but Wallace is getting 10 mill  )
Turner
Bass
Zeller

I like those lineups. (And I don't care what Wallace is getting.)

I think we'll go...

Smart
Bradley
Green
Sullinger
Zeller

Turner (backup 1)
Wallace
Olynyk (6th man)

Bass would be the 4th big, but I think we'll rotate between the 3 bigs. Young gets squeezed out of the rotation.

I hope that is our lineup.  If Smart and Turner flip flop I am fine with that too.  I think the most likely outcome is that Sully, KO, and Zellar all split 80-85% of the 4/5 minutes.  Sully playing down low on O with Zellar and KO handling the ball a lot out of the high post / pick and roll.  Bass in there for the last 15% of minutes in some way.

[Surferdad]

Would be great if Sully and Kelly start together and kill it on offense (pray their defense has improved), all the pretty passing and shooting. I know people want it to be Zeller but I don't.

The more I think about it, the more I think Olynyk will beat out Zeller for starting center spot.

I don't think Zeller is all that different / superior as a defender or rebounder to Olynyk. Both are physically incapable of matching up against opposing centers due to lack of strength + length. Both players are physically and athletically overmatched on nightly basis as starting centers. Neither are adequate shot-blockers. Neither guy really known for their defense (man defense or team defense). Zeller has a bit more experience but talent wise I think they are working with similar tools (as they start NBA careers). And it's only a small gap experience wise (one year).

So I think Olynyk has a good chance at matching Tyler Zeller's contributions as a defender & rebounder. Offensively, however, Olynyk is a much more skilled player and I think the difference in that phase of the game will be larger than the differences defensively or as a rebounder.

Actually Zeller is far stronger and more athletic than Olynyk. Olynyk is far more skilled, though. They are really different, and I bet Zeller is a superior defender just for defensive mobility. Going up for blocks and having a crazy amount of length (though this is still obviously important) is meaning less and less in the modern day NBA. It's about being smart and having the quickness to challenge each and every shot possible by fronting your man or making their shot difficult. It's also about being able to make decisions quickly on where to be. Zeller is known for his rim running and above average athleticism for a 7 footer.

You could be right about Oly starting, and I think it could definitely happy with Smart possibly starting at PG until Rondo is back. I just really disagree that they are both on the same level in terms of defensive potential. The big thing is Zeller WANTS to defend the post. Half the battle when defending the paint is having the right mentality, imo. He's 270 with good quickness.

During the scrimmage, Olynyk looked stronger than zeller, not once was out athletisized ( you know what I mean).


After the scrimmage , I really want to see this starting 5. This starting 5 would probably win a majority of our first 10 games. Might shock a lot of people.

Smart
Bradley
Green
Sully
Kelly

Bench

Pressey
Young ( or Gerald Wallace, preferably young but Wallace is getting 10 mill  )
Turner
Bass
Zeller

I like those lineups. (And I don't care what Wallace is getting.)

I think we'll go...

Smart
Bradley
Green
Sullinger
Zeller

Turner (backup 1)
Wallace
Olynyk (6th man)

Bass would be the 4th big, but I think we'll rotate between the 3 bigs. Young gets squeezed out of the rotation.

I hope that is our lineup.  If Smart and Turner flip flop I am fine with that too.  I think the most likely outcome is that Sully, KO, and Zellar all split 80-85% of the 4/5 minutes.  Sully playing down low on O with Zellar and KO handling the ball a lot out of the high post / pick and roll.  Bass in there for the last 15% of minutes in some way.

Don't forget about Marcus Thornton.  He is one of the best shooters on this team now. Definitely need him to get a piece of the action in the backcourt. Pressey is the guy who will sit, I predict. 

[LilRip]

haven't read thru the entire thread yet (i will later) but i did see the back-n-forth on Jeff Green and thought I'd chime in on that.

Jeff Green will be a go-to scorer on SOME nights. Even if he looked great in a scrimmage (half a scrimmage?) there's no guarantee he can do that consistently. On some games, he'll drop 20+. Other games, he'll drop less than 10. That's fine. That's to be expected. I mean honestly, at this stage in his career, what's the likelihood he'll become a drastically different player than what he has been in the past?

[biggjonn75]

Everyone is saying Sully "lost weight". Did he?

Kelly and Sully can be effective on the small line-up.

Smart and Bradley gives us lock-down 'D' in the back court.

We need to sort out Small Forward. Even if Young looked like the second coming of Havlichek, he needs to go to Maine. He hasn't ever played 60 games in a season, the 80 games he would have to play would probably affect his development.

[celticslove]

haven't read thru the entire thread yet (i will later) but i did see the back-n-forth on Jeff Green and thought I'd chime in on that.

Jeff Green will be a go-to scorer on SOME nights. Even if he looked great in a scrimmage (half a scrimmage?) there's no guarantee he can do that consistently. On some games, he'll drop 20+. Other games, he'll drop less than 10. That's fine. That's to be expected. I mean honestly, at this stage in his career, what's the likelihood he'll become a drastically different player than what he has been in the past?

quite about right, i just hope him and turner decides not to show up on the same game.

[clover]

Everyone is saying Sully "lost weight". Did he?

Kelly and Sully can be effective on the small line-up.

Smart and Bradley gives us lock-down 'D' in the back court.

We need to sort out Small Forward. Even if Young looked like the second coming of Havlichek, he needs to go to Maine. He hasn't ever played 60 games in a season, the 80 games he would have to play would probably affect his development.

Young doesn't need to play 80 games or go to Maine. Few players play 80 games. But if he's playing well enough to play all 80 I don't see how that would negatively affect his development.

And no, even Sully said on media day that he hadn't lost any weight.

[clover]

haven't read thru the entire thread yet (i will later) but i did see the back-n-forth on Jeff Green and thought I'd chime in on that.

Jeff Green will be a go-to scorer on SOME nights. Even if he looked great in a scrimmage (half a scrimmage?) there's no guarantee he can do that consistently. On some games, he'll drop 20+. Other games, he'll drop less than 10. That's fine. That's to be expected. I mean honestly, at this stage in his career, what's the likelihood he'll become a drastically different player than what he has been in the past?

quite about right, i just hope him and turner decides not to show up on the same game.

You do?

[clover]

Would be great if Sully and Kelly start together and kill it on offense (pray their defense has improved), all the pretty passing and shooting. I know people want it to be Zeller but I don't.

The more I think about it, the more I think Olynyk will beat out Zeller for starting center spot.

I don't think Zeller is all that different / superior as a defender or rebounder to Olynyk. Both are physically incapable of matching up against opposing centers due to lack of strength + length. Both players are physically and athletically overmatched on nightly basis as starting centers. Neither are adequate shot-blockers. Neither guy really known for their defense (man defense or team defense). Zeller has a bit more experience but talent wise I think they are working with similar tools (as they start NBA careers). And it's only a small gap experience wise (one year).

So I think Olynyk has a good chance at matching Tyler Zeller's contributions as a defender & rebounder. Offensively, however, Olynyk is a much more skilled player and I think the difference in that phase of the game will be larger than the differences defensively or as a rebounder.

Actually Zeller is far stronger and more athletic than Olynyk. Olynyk is far more skilled, though. They are really different, and I bet Zeller is a superior defender just for defensive mobility. Going up for blocks and having a crazy amount of length (though this is still obviously important) is meaning less and less in the modern day NBA. It's about being smart and having the quickness to challenge each and every shot possible by fronting your man or making their shot difficult. It's also about being able to make decisions quickly on where to be. Zeller is known for his rim running and above average athleticism for a 7 footer.

You could be right about Oly starting, and I think it could definitely happy with Smart possibly starting at PG until Rondo is back. I just really disagree that they are both on the same level in terms of defensive potential. The big thing is Zeller WANTS to defend the post. Half the battle when defending the paint is having the right mentality, imo. He's 270 with good quickness.

During the scrimmage, Olynyk looked stronger than zeller, not once was out athletisized ( you know what I mean).


After the scrimmage , I really want to see this starting 5. This starting 5 would probably win a majority of our first 10 games. Might shock a lot of people.

Smart
Bradley
Green
Sully
Kelly

Bench

Pressey
Young ( or Gerald Wallace, preferably young but Wallace is getting 10 mill  )
Turner
Bass
Zeller

I like those lineups. (And I don't care what Wallace is getting.)

I think we'll go...

Smart
Bradley
Green
Sullinger
Zeller

Turner (backup 1)
Wallace
Olynyk (6th man)

Bass would be the 4th big, but I think we'll rotate between the 3 bigs. Young gets squeezed out of the rotation.

I hope that is our lineup.  If Smart and Turner flip flop I am fine with that too.  I think the most likely outcome is that Sully, KO, and Zellar all split 80-85% of the 4/5 minutes.  Sully playing down low on O with Zellar and KO handling the ball a lot out of the high post / pick and roll.  Bass in there for the last 15% of minutes in some way.

Don't forget about Marcus Thornton.  He is one of the best shooters on this team now. Definitely need him to get a piece of the action in the backcourt. Pressey is the guy who will sit, I predict.

A cynic would say that Thornton will play once AB gets injured again. But ET has the chance to be made into an asset again, Thornton not so much. I expect Thornton will get some minutes, but I'm not really that high on either ET or him.

And certainly so far you look to be on track with the Pressey prediction--the coaches don't seem high on him for the 10-many rotation. The question is whether he can force himself into consideration with improved shooting through the preseason.