C's scrimmage notes

[Who]

Would be great if Sully and Kelly start together and kill it on offense (pray their defense has improved), all the pretty passing and shooting. I know people want it to be Zeller but I don't.

The more I think about it, the more I think Olynyk will beat out Zeller for starting center spot.

I don't think Zeller is all that different / superior as a defender or rebounder to Olynyk. Both are physically incapable of matching up against opposing centers due to lack of strength + length. Both players are physically and athletically overmatched on nightly basis as starting centers. Neither are adequate shot-blockers. Neither guy really known for their defense (man defense or team defense). Zeller has a bit more experience but talent wise I think they are working with similar tools (as they start NBA careers). And it's only a small gap experience wise (one year).

So I think Olynyk has a good chance at matching Tyler Zeller's contributions as a defender & rebounder. Offensively, however, Olynyk is a much more skilled player and I think the difference in that phase of the game will be larger than the differences defensively or as a rebounder.

[Tr1boy]

I've heard good things about KO, Sully, Smart, and Young, which is a pretty good thing to hear.

I also read a few comments saying how smooth Young's release is. I guess the question remains, is he going to D-League for sure, or is he gonna take up a few minutes to get acclimated to the NBA speed? Apparently, Turner also looked pretty good, and I saw a clip of his crossover on Smart.

Does anyone think Young could replace Green at SF, or is that all wishful thinking?

Some nice shots by Sully, KO, Young.  Turner and Smart struggled a little per blakely's review of the schrimmage

http://www.csnne.com/boston-celtics/good-bad-ugly-olynyk-shines-scrimmage

[Monkhouse]

I know everyone wants to be positive here but you gotta remember something: all this great offensive stuff was happening against the Celtics. So take the positive vibes with a grain of salt because someone in Green was also getting burned.

True.

I think 3/4 of the roster at the scrimmage won't be here once we become a contender.

But at least an opposing team wasn't burning the Green this time today .

[MBunge]

I don't think Zeller is all that different / superior as a defender or rebounder to Olynyk. Both are physically incapable of matching up against opposing centers due to lack of strength + length. Both players are physically and athletically overmatched on nightly basis as starting centers.

I don't know how much KO might improve but you are totally wrong about Zeller.  Sure, he's overmatched with the elite centers but he's perfectly capable of holding his own against the average NBA 5.  KO wasn't last season.  Zeller's PER vs. opposing center PER was a net positive last season and his per 36 stats were up significantly from his rookie year.

Zeller's problem is that he SUUUUUCKS at the power forward spot.  Not surprisingly, that's where Mike Brown had him spending a lot of time last season.

Mike

[Nerf DPOY]

What's more of a concern anyways? How they defend opposing centers or how they handle slashers (usually guards or 3s) driving the lane?

[pokeKingCurtis]

http://www.csnne.com/video_content_type/highlights-celtics-intrasquad-scrimmage

[DarkAzcura]

Would be great if Sully and Kelly start together and kill it on offense (pray their defense has improved), all the pretty passing and shooting. I know people want it to be Zeller but I don't.

The more I think about it, the more I think Olynyk will beat out Zeller for starting center spot.

I don't think Zeller is all that different / superior as a defender or rebounder to Olynyk. Both are physically incapable of matching up against opposing centers due to lack of strength + length. Both players are physically and athletically overmatched on nightly basis as starting centers. Neither are adequate shot-blockers. Neither guy really known for their defense (man defense or team defense). Zeller has a bit more experience but talent wise I think they are working with similar tools (as they start NBA careers). And it's only a small gap experience wise (one year).

So I think Olynyk has a good chance at matching Tyler Zeller's contributions as a defender & rebounder. Offensively, however, Olynyk is a much more skilled player and I think the difference in that phase of the game will be larger than the differences defensively or as a rebounder.

Actually Zeller is far stronger and more athletic than Olynyk. Olynyk is far more skilled, though. They are really different, and I bet Zeller is a superior defender just for defensive mobility. Going up for blocks and having a crazy amount of length (though this is still obviously important) is meaning less and less in the modern day NBA. It's about being smart and having the quickness to challenge each and every shot possible by fronting your man or making their shot difficult. It's also about being able to make decisions quickly on where to be. Zeller is known for his rim running and above average athleticism for a 7 footer.

You could be right about Oly starting, and I think it could definitely happy with Smart possibly starting at PG until Rondo is back. I just really disagree that they are both on the same level in terms of defensive potential. The big thing is Zeller WANTS to defend the post. Half the battle when defending the paint is having the right mentality, imo. He's 270 with good quickness.

[clover]

KO, Sully, Young sound like stood out

Yep. Seems like Young could be the surprise of the preseason. Rondo's injury may give him the opportunity to earn some playing time early, and then if he plays well he should stick with the team. Certainly his skill set is something they really need.

[bleedGREENdon]

I was at the scrimmage personally and was just behind the guy who recorded that video.

Positives:

-Sullys stroke looked great
- young looked great, looked just like he did in college, didn't really look like the transition from NCAA-NBA is bothering him, still gets to rim, still gets his shot off smooth
-Green looked very aggressive in the 1st scrimmage( was shooting and looking for his shot through double teams, which some people on Cs blog would call ball hogging, I call Jeff green finally not being uncle snooze)
(I think green was doubled every time he touched the ball)

-Smart and Bradley back court was very disruptive
-Pressey played great defense
-Smart showed great ball handling( had pressey playing full court press on him both scrimmages all game)
-Avery Bradley's ball handling improved
-Kelly Olynyk looks great, shooting, showing his moves etc.
-Sullys ass is huge, will be blocking a lot of guys out.
-Powell looked like he should make the team
-Zeller looked like what we expect, a 7' that is better than what we have but nothing crazy.
-Rondo was there


Negatives


-sully looks like he gained weight and was walking up the court on multiple occasions
- green didn't play 2nd scrimmage stained calf
- Evan turner didn't look that great IMO, missed some lay ups.
- Zeller looked weak when finishing, post moves are weak
- bass looks worse
- kelly is our largest player.
- when green went out, we had no go to scorer, became a jump shooting team on both ends.
- no post presence defensively At all ( we know this)

[bleedGREENdon]

After watching yesterday in person

Smart
Bradley
Green
Sully
Kelly

Would be a real fun team to watch. Would probably give us the best chance to win games IMO. Our post presence is null, but our offense would be up and down the court scoring left and right.

[GreenWarrior]

"Negatives

-sully looks like he gained weight and was walking up the court on multiple occasions "

- bass looks worse


yup, another reason why I wasn't happy about encouraging him to be 3 pt. shooter. 'toine 2.0, developing bad habits, our best rebounder is only going to walk from 3pt line to 3 pt. line.

and now Bass is following...

not liking it, not liking it at all.

[hwangjini_1]

I don't think Zeller is all that different / superior as a defender or rebounder to Olynyk. Both are physically incapable of matching up against opposing centers due to lack of strength + length. Both players are physically and athletically overmatched on nightly basis as starting centers.

I don't know how much KO might improve but you are totally wrong about Zeller.  Sure, he's overmatched with the elite centers but he's perfectly capable of holding his own against the average NBA 5.  KO wasn't last season.  Zeller's PER vs. opposing center PER was a net positive last season and his per 36 stats were up significantly from his rookie year.

Zeller's problem is that he SUUUUUCKS at the power forward spot.  Not surprisingly, that's where Mike Brown had him spending a lot of time last season.

Mike

MB, thanks for the insight about zeller, pf, and cleveland. one questions comes to mind for me though. could you would you explain in more detail whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy zeller is so bad as pf? this is a real question and i would like to learn more. thanks.

[MBunge]

I don't think Zeller is all that different / superior as a defender or rebounder to Olynyk. Both are physically incapable of matching up against opposing centers due to lack of strength + length. Both players are physically and athletically overmatched on nightly basis as starting centers.

I don't know how much KO might improve but you are totally wrong about Zeller.  Sure, he's overmatched with the elite centers but he's perfectly capable of holding his own against the average NBA 5.  KO wasn't last season.  Zeller's PER vs. opposing center PER was a net positive last season and his per 36 stats were up significantly from his rookie year.

Zeller's problem is that he SUUUUUCKS at the power forward spot.  Not surprisingly, that's where Mike Brown had him spending a lot of time last season.

Mike

MB, thanks for the insight about zeller, pf, and cleveland. one questions comes to mind for me though. could you would you explain in more detail whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy zeller is so bad as pf? this is a real question and i would like to learn more. thanks.

Zeller's just a center.  He's not so huge he can overwhelm smaller PFs with size.  He doesn't have the quick reaction athleticism to defend smaller, more offensive minded PFs in open space.  Zeller's like the reverse of a combo guard who's too small to be a 2 but lacks the skills to consistently play point.  Zeller has the body and skills to play one position but doesn't stretch much beyond that.

Mike

[Vermont Green]

"Negatives

-sully looks like he gained weight and was walking up the court on multiple occasions "

- bass looks worse


yup, another reason why I wasn't happy about encouraging him to be 3 pt. shooter. 'toine 2.0, developing bad habits, our best rebounder is only going to walk from 3pt line to 3 pt. line.

and now Bass is following...

not liking it, not liking it at all.

When I saw all of the writes that Sullinger had a high scoring scrimmage, my first thought was "who was covering him".  It was probably Bass so I don't know if it is good that Sullinger played well or bad that Bass defended so poorly.  I have to say, I am afraid it is more the latter.

[Evantime34]

"Negatives

-sully looks like he gained weight and was walking up the court on multiple occasions "

- bass looks worse


yup, another reason why I wasn't happy about encouraging him to be 3 pt. shooter. 'toine 2.0, developing bad habits, our best rebounder is only going to walk from 3pt line to 3 pt. line.

and now Bass is following...

not liking it, not liking it at all.

When I saw all of the writes that Sullinger had a high scoring scrimmage, my first thought was "who was covering him".  It was probably Bass so I don't know if it is good that Sullinger played well or bad that Bass defended so poorly.  I have to say, I am afraid it is more the latter.

From watching the recap that someone posted earlier i'm pretty sure that the reason Sullinger scored is because he pulled up deep before the defense set up.