We need a rim-protector, they need a wing defender

[coffee425]

we take a salary dump player, get a starting rimprotector
they get a wing-defender (like afflalo and galinari could guard KD) and a veteran true pf on a team full of Cs and no one behind Faried.

[Csfan1984]

I'm okay with that. 7 out of 10 rating

[Tnerb02]

I am starting to hate the term "rim protector". Last year everyone needed a 3 and D guy.

[Jailan34]

I am starting to hate the term "rim protector". Last year everyone needed a 3 and D guy.

3 and D guys are still valuable and always will be. As are rim protectors.

[Vermont Green]

This is a sensible trade for sure but I am not sure that I see where Denver has a "need" for more PF depth.  They have Hickson and Arthur behind Faried.  I don't see how Bass improves this.

So it comes down to how much of an upgrade they view Green over Gallinari.  I agree that overall Green would be a better all around fit as a player but is it enough of an upgrade to warrant giving up a capable back up center?  I suspect we would have to add something but I am not sure what.

[incoherent]

How can you hate the term "rim protector"? Its a pretty clear explanation of a skill set in basketball.  Do you hate it because we don't have one? Its not some gimmicky phrase that will go out style eventually or anything, right? That's like saying you hate the term " rebounder" or "ball handler"

[Vermont Green]

How can you hate the term "rim protector"? Its a pretty clear explanation of a skill set in basketball.  Do you hate it because we don't have one? Its not some gimmicky phrase that will go out style eventually or anything, right? That's like saying you hate the term " rebounder" or "ball handler"

I am not the one who said I hate the phrase but I am going to jump in anyway because I share the sentiment. 

The term rim protector is getting over used.  I believe that it is oversimplifying a much more nuanced issue.  "Rim protection" is not primarily about a big guy at the end blocking shots.  That is one element but not even the most important element.  Team defense to achieve rim protection starts with perimeter defense.  Defend better out there and you don't need someone on the back line to help out.  It is kind of like the offensive line in football.

Sometimes, the perimeter defense is going to break down so then yes, you do need help defenders.  The  best thing at this point is to have a big who can move his feet and get in the way.  They don't even have to jump and certainly don't have to block the shot to properly execute this.

If you try too hard to block shots, you make it easier for the penetrating player to pass to the now open big and get an easy dunk.  "Rim protectors" also tend to rack up extra fouls getting the team into the penalty earlier and getting themselves out of the game.

I am not sure that Mozgov is even mobile enough to be a good help/team defender, much less a rim protector.  For his career, Mozgov averages 0.9 blocks per game.   

[Rick Robeys Return]

This would be a steal for the Cs. Those who think that Green is a better overall player than Gallinari are dreaming. Green is a better perimeter defender, but Gallinari has improved since his days with the Knicks. Gallinari is also two years younger, and at least an inch taller.

Gallinari v Green career stats:

PER: 15.7/ 13.1

Pts per 36 mins: 16.7/ 15.6

3pt %: .369/ .344

True Shooting %: .576/ .530

EFg%: .504/ .484

TRb%: 8.5/ 9.0

Usg%: 19.8/ 20.9

Ass%: 9.2/ 8.3

Stl% 1.4/ 1.3

Blk% 1.3/ 1.5

To% 9.7/ 11.9

Ortg 116/103

Drtg 110/ 108

[KCattheStripe]

This would be a steal for the Cs. Those who think that Green is a better overall player than Gallinari are dreaming. Green is a better perimeter defender, but Gallinari has improved since his days with the Knicks. Gallinari is also two years younger, and at least an inch taller.

Gallinari v Green career stats:

PER: 15.7/ 13.1

Pts per 36 mins: 16.7/ 15.6

3pt %: .369/ .344

True Shooting %: .576/ .530

EFg%: .504/ .484

TRb%: 8.5/ 9.0

Usg%: 19.8/ 20.9

Ass%: 9.2/ 8.3

Stl% 1.4/ 1.3

Blk% 1.3/ 1.5

To% 9.7/ 11.9

Ortg 116/103

Drtg 110/ 108

Games played since Gallo came into the league.

Gallinari: 285
Green : 398

[saltlover]

How can you hate the term "rim protector"? Its a pretty clear explanation of a skill set in basketball.  Do you hate it because we don't have one? Its not some gimmicky phrase that will go out style eventually or anything, right? That's like saying you hate the term " rebounder" or "ball handler"

I am not the one who said I hate the phrase but I am going to jump in anyway because I share the sentiment. 

The term rim protector is getting over used.  I believe that it is oversimplifying a much more nuanced issue.  "Rim protection" is not primarily about a big guy at the end blocking shots.  That is one element but not even the most important element.  Team defense to achieve rim protection starts with perimeter defense.  Defend better out there and you don't need someone on the back line to help out.  It is kind of like the offensive line in football.

Sometimes, the perimeter defense is going to break down so then yes, you do need help defenders.  The  best thing at this point is to have a big who can move his feet and get in the way.  They don't even have to jump and certainly don't have to block the shot to properly execute this.

If you try too hard to block shots, you make it easier for the penetrating player to pass to the now open big and get an easy dunk.  "Rim protectors" also tend to rack up extra fouls getting the team into the penalty earlier and getting themselves out of the game.

I am not sure that Mozgov is even mobile enough to be a good help/team defender, much less a rim protector.  For his career, Mozgov averages 0.9 blocks per game.

I largely agree with you.  You don't need to block shots -- just make them more difficult 'rwhen the offense gets penetration.  It's best if you can do it without leaving you're feet, because then you're in good rebounding position.  I haven't seen Mozgov enough to know if he's capable at this, but a big-and-tall shotblocker is not necessarily what this team needs, unless he is somewhat mobile and defensively aware.  That said, defining rim-protector as you have, the Celtics are probably without one, pending Zeller showing the Celtics have significantly better defensive coaches than last year's Cavs.

[gpap]

It's a good idea but I would think if this were to happen, it would've happened by now.

[Irish Stew]

This is a sensible trade for sure but I am not sure that I see where Denver has a "need" for more PF depth.  They have Hickson and Arthur behind Faried.  I don't see how Bass improves this.

So it comes down to how much of an upgrade they view Green over Gallinari.  I agree that overall Green would be a better all around fit as a player but is it enough of an upgrade to warrant giving up a capable back up center?  I suspect we would have to add something but I am not sure what.

I generally agree with this analysis. Green vs Gallinari is a small win for the Nuggets. Mozgov vs Bass is a bigger win for the Celtics. In addition, we would have both of these guys under our control for two years. Green (player option 2nd year) and Bass are possibly two expiring contracts. Even adding the Clippers pick might not get Denver to bite. Interesting trade proposal.

[Csfan1984]

One big reason I'm okay with trade is I just don't see C's going after any 2015 FA. So by picking up two equally decent guys that are younger and expire in 2016 it works in long term. Nuggets could target a big name since they are a playoff team. Nuggets have over 20 million in space after this trade for 2015 .

[Real World]

I'm not sure why the Celtics would want to add another year of contracts, in what is a clear rebuilding process.    The C's are in tank mode, or at least they should be.  That means losing games, developing assets, and clearing salary cap space.  Neither the paesan, nor the cosmonaut, serve as rebuilding assets for the Celtics.  If anything, I'd prefer keeping Bass and Green, who represent $16 million in expiring contracts.  That, or move them for picks, or prospects.  The Celtics should be looking to lose as many games as possible this year.  Play hard, keep it close and entertaining, but lose in the end.  Sucks, but this is the NBA.  Isn't it Faaaaaaantastic?!?!

[Vox_Populi]

How can you hate the term "rim protector"? Its a pretty clear explanation of a skill set in basketball.  Do you hate it because we don't have one? Its not some gimmicky phrase that will go out style eventually or anything, right? That's like saying you hate the term " rebounder" or "ball handler"

I am not the one who said I hate the phrase but I am going to jump in anyway because I share the sentiment. 

The term rim protector is getting over used.  I believe that it is oversimplifying a much more nuanced issue.  "Rim protection" is not primarily about a big guy at the end blocking shots.  That is one element but not even the most important element.  Team defense to achieve rim protection starts with perimeter defense.  Defend better out there and you don't need someone on the back line to help out.  It is kind of like the offensive line in football.

Sometimes, the perimeter defense is going to break down so then yes, you do need help defenders.  The  best thing at this point is to have a big who can move his feet and get in the way.  They don't even have to jump and certainly don't have to block the shot to properly execute this.

If you try too hard to block shots, you make it easier for the penetrating player to pass to the now open big and get an easy dunk.  "Rim protectors" also tend to rack up extra fouls getting the team into the penalty earlier and getting themselves out of the game.

I feel the opposite. Everyone already knew that blocked shots was a false indicator of good paint defense. Same with steals and perimeter defense. It's why most people who watch DeAndre Jordan and Drummond know that while they block a lot of shots, they're not actually great defenders. And it's why everyone recognizes KG as a historically good defender for the opposite reason. I do agree the term puts too much emphasis on the big man, five of the top six players in rim FG% had a perimeter player on their team on the All-Defensive team after all. But that's just a side effect of the conventional wisdom that a good defensive center is more valuable than a good defensive wing. I think, your problem with the term is the misconception regarding it's true meaning, rather than it itself.

After all, NBA.com/stats describes it as "the defender being within five feet of the basket and within five feet of the offensive player attempting the shot." Which is more in line with your thinking rather than just a guy who block s shots.