WYC/Ainge/Stevens speak on Celtics (players, training camp, etc)

[D.o.s.]

Dwight was traded in the last year of his contract.

The Hornets' star guard did not request a trade Monday in his meeting with new coach Monty Williams and top team officials, general manager Dell Demps said.

"Chris had some very good points. ... He was energetic. He was open. He was honest. He showed that he wants to win, and that's what we want to do as well."

"The meeting went well. It was great to get an opportunity to sit down with coach Williams, [team] president [Hugh] Weber and our new general manager, Dell Demps," Paul's statement said. "I expressed my desire to win and I like what they said about the direction that they want to take the team. I have been a Hornet my entire career and I hope to represent the city of New Orleans and state of Louisiana for many years to come."

Sources told ESPN.com that teams inquiring about Paul's availability in recent days were greeted with the same resistance to Paul offers that the Hornets have maintained for months. Persistent media reports had suggested Paul would formally request to be traded at Monday's meeting.

"They say they aren't moving him," one rival team executive said of the Hornets.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5411166

I should add, again, that this doesn't mean I think Rondo's coming or going, but simply to illustrate that everyone in the NBA plays the same game when it comes to players being on the move. They're all franchise lifers until the right situation comes up for one side or the other.

[MBunge]

...And now I'm having one discussion with a poster who's convinced that I'm wrong because she wasn't stating an opinion, and was instead making factual claims, and another discussion with a different poster who's convinced I'm wrong because she wasn't stating factual claims and it just was off camera banter/opinion sharing between colleagues.

How interesting.
 

  I think that quite a bit of that is because of the arguments that you're making.

*Bing*  We have a winner!

Mike

[MBunge]

Perhaps, but you were both responding to the same statement:

I think she thinks it's true, and I think that she's not one to be creating something out of nothing just to hear herself talk.

Except she didn't say "I think" about anything.  She was making FACTUAL CLAIMS about the situation.  She wasn't theorizing or hypothesizing or speculating.  She said Rondo told the Celtics he "wants out".  She also said "nobody believes me", indicating that no one else has been told the same information by their sources.

Mike

It's just off-camera banter between colleagues. It's likely that she's just voicing her opinion and not reporting something she has evidence and the other people know it. The fact that she said "I've been telling everybody that but nobody believes me" points to her friends either thinking it's just her opinion, or her having little to no credibility with her colleagues. I tend to think the former's more likely. I also think that's why she's been so silent on the subject.

Like I've said this whole time, I think she thinks there's something to her statement. I'm inclined to agree with you, Tim, in that it's much more likely to be an intuition on her part, but my point -- that statements from Ainge, Wyc, and/or anyone connected to a franchise's player should be treated with significantly more suspicion in regards to player movement -- still stands.

And who, in this entire thread, has even suggested that Ainge, Wyc, Rondo are only telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?  It may very well be the case that Rondo told the Celtics "I want out".  An offhand remark in between TV segments is hardly definitive proof of that, however, and given that there is literally NO OTHER INDICATION that such a thing happened, it seems perfectly reasonable for folks to doubt it.

Mike

[D.o.s.]

Perhaps, but you were both responding to the same statement:

I think she thinks it's true, and I think that she's not one to be creating something out of nothing just to hear herself talk.

Except she didn't say "I think" about anything.  She was making FACTUAL CLAIMS about the situation.  She wasn't theorizing or hypothesizing or speculating.  She said Rondo told the Celtics he "wants out".  She also said "nobody believes me", indicating that no one else has been told the same information by their sources.

Mike

It's just off-camera banter between colleagues. It's likely that she's just voicing her opinion and not reporting something she has evidence and the other people know it. The fact that she said "I've been telling everybody that but nobody believes me" points to her friends either thinking it's just her opinion, or her having little to no credibility with her colleagues. I tend to think the former's more likely. I also think that's why she's been so silent on the subject.

Like I've said this whole time, I think she thinks there's something to her statement. I'm inclined to agree with you, Tim, in that it's much more likely to be an intuition on her part, but my point -- that statements from Ainge, Wyc, and/or anyone connected to a franchise's player should be treated with significantly more suspicion in regards to player movement -- still stands.

And who, in this entire thread, has even suggested that Ainge, Wyc, Rondo are only telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?  It may very well be the case that Rondo told the Celtics "I want out".  An offhand remark in between TV segments is hardly definitive proof of that, however, and given that there is literally NO OTHER INDICATION that such a thing happened, it seems perfectly reasonable for folks to doubt it.

Mike

So now it's an offhand remark? Because, you know, before you were saying they were FACTUAL CLAIMS.

I do appreciate the fact that you've taken a day to breathe and relax. Your turn towards the apoplectic was fairly obnoxious.

The fact that Ainge said "very credible people were making things up" prompted me to say that Ainge has a lot to lose by admitting that Rondo wants a trade, and that we should assess his statements accordingly. Then you came in with your innate mastery of C A P I T A L  L E T T E R S and your misguided assessment on , well, more or less everything, related to this thread and now here we are.

Have a TP.

[Celtics4ever]

Dwight was traded in the last year of his contract.

 

RR would have to agree to resign where he was going.  It has not worked out well for ORL since then but they may be coming out of it, this year, I think.

[D.o.s.]

Dwight was traded in the last year of his contract.

 

RR would have to agree to resign where he was going.  It has not worked out well for ORL since then but they may be coming out of it, this year, I think.

Disagree -- that trade worked out way better for the Magic than it did for the Lakers.

[BballTim]

Dwight was traded in the last year of his contract.

The Hornets' star guard did not request a trade Monday in his meeting with new coach Monty Williams and top team officials, general manager Dell Demps said.

"Chris had some very good points. ... He was energetic. He was open. He was honest. He showed that he wants to win, and that's what we want to do as well."

"The meeting went well. It was great to get an opportunity to sit down with coach Williams, [team] president [Hugh] Weber and our new general manager, Dell Demps," Paul's statement said. "I expressed my desire to win and I like what they said about the direction that they want to take the team. I have been a Hornet my entire career and I hope to represent the city of New Orleans and state of Louisiana for many years to come."

Sources told ESPN.com that teams inquiring about Paul's availability in recent days were greeted with the same resistance to Paul offers that the Hornets have maintained for months. Persistent media reports had suggested Paul would formally request to be traded at Monday's meeting.

"They say they aren't moving him," one rival team executive said of the Hornets.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5411166

I should add, again, that this doesn't mean I think Rondo's coming or going, but simply to illustrate that everyone in the NBA plays the same game when it comes to players being on the move. They're all franchise lifers until the right situation comes up for one side or the other.

  Dwight Howard was traded in the summer, before the last year of his contract. Also, that CP article was from 2010, so he spent the entire next season in NO. I'll assume that you're not implying that you had no idea CP wanted to leave NO until you heard about the trade.

[BballTim]

Dwight was traded in the last year of his contract.

 

RR would have to agree to resign where he was going.  It has not worked out well for ORL since then but they may be coming out of it, this year, I think.

Disagree -- that trade worked out way better for the Magic than it did for the Lakers.

  The trade didn't work out at all well for the Magic. The fact that it worked out worse for the Lakers isn't the point. It's like if we traded a couple of unprotected firsts that ended up in the top 5 for Perk and then celebrated that we won the trade because OKC screwed up the picks.

[D.o.s.]

Dwight was traded in the last year of his contract.

The Hornets' star guard did not request a trade Monday in his meeting with new coach Monty Williams and top team officials, general manager Dell Demps said.

"Chris had some very good points. ... He was energetic. He was open. He was honest. He showed that he wants to win, and that's what we want to do as well."

"The meeting went well. It was great to get an opportunity to sit down with coach Williams, [team] president [Hugh] Weber and our new general manager, Dell Demps," Paul's statement said. "I expressed my desire to win and I like what they said about the direction that they want to take the team. I have been a Hornet my entire career and I hope to represent the city of New Orleans and state of Louisiana for many years to come."

Sources told ESPN.com that teams inquiring about Paul's availability in recent days were greeted with the same resistance to Paul offers that the Hornets have maintained for months. Persistent media reports had suggested Paul would formally request to be traded at Monday's meeting.

"They say they aren't moving him," one rival team executive said of the Hornets.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5411166

I should add, again, that this doesn't mean I think Rondo's coming or going, but simply to illustrate that everyone in the NBA plays the same game when it comes to players being on the move. They're all franchise lifers until the right situation comes up for one side or the other.

  Dwight Howard was traded in the summer, before the last year of his contract. Also, that CP article was from 2010, so he spent the entire next season in NO. I'll assume that you're not implying that you had no idea CP wanted to leave NO until you heard about the trade.

Ok, technically speaking Dwight was traded in the offseason before the final season of his deal started. If you want to consider that separate from the final season of his deal, that's your prerogative.

The Chris Paul thing is pretty interesting, insofar as that I assume if we were in a parallel universe where we were all Hornicans fans you and CAPS LOCK MIKE would have dismissed every rumor of Paul leaving as unsubstantiated and attempted to suggest that no one was talking about CP3 leaving New Orleans and that Paul had said he was going to stay and that Dell Demps had said he was going to stay and Demps had been reported as resistant to a trade so obviously the only reasonable conclusion we can draw from credible sources is that CP3 is going to stay in New Orleans.

[D.o.s.]

Dwight was traded in the last year of his contract.

 

RR would have to agree to resign where he was going.  It has not worked out well for ORL since then but they may be coming out of it, this year, I think.

Disagree -- that trade worked out way better for the Magic than it did for the Lakers.

  The trade didn't work out at all well for the Magic. The fact that it worked out worse for the Lakers isn't the point. It's like if we traded a couple of unprotected firsts that ended up in the top 5 for Perk and then celebrated that we won the trade because OKC screwed up the picks.

They got assets for a player who was leaving. Nine times out of ten, that's better than not getting assets for a player who's leaving, particularly when that player leaves the team who's cupboard has just been raided.

[BballTim]

Dwight was traded in the last year of his contract.

The Hornets' star guard did not request a trade Monday in his meeting with new coach Monty Williams and top team officials, general manager Dell Demps said.

"Chris had some very good points. ... He was energetic. He was open. He was honest. He showed that he wants to win, and that's what we want to do as well."

"The meeting went well. It was great to get an opportunity to sit down with coach Williams, [team] president [Hugh] Weber and our new general manager, Dell Demps," Paul's statement said. "I expressed my desire to win and I like what they said about the direction that they want to take the team. I have been a Hornet my entire career and I hope to represent the city of New Orleans and state of Louisiana for many years to come."

Sources told ESPN.com that teams inquiring about Paul's availability in recent days were greeted with the same resistance to Paul offers that the Hornets have maintained for months. Persistent media reports had suggested Paul would formally request to be traded at Monday's meeting.

"They say they aren't moving him," one rival team executive said of the Hornets.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5411166

I should add, again, that this doesn't mean I think Rondo's coming or going, but simply to illustrate that everyone in the NBA plays the same game when it comes to players being on the move. They're all franchise lifers until the right situation comes up for one side or the other.

  Dwight Howard was traded in the summer, before the last year of his contract. Also, that CP article was from 2010, so he spent the entire next season in NO. I'll assume that you're not implying that you had no idea CP wanted to leave NO until you heard about the trade.

Ok, technically speaking Dwight was traded in the offseason before the final season of his deal started. If you want to consider that separate from the final season of his deal, that's your prerogative.

The Chris Paul thing is pretty interesting, insofar as that I assume if we were in a parallel universe where we were all Hornicans fans you and CAPS LOCK MIKE would have dismissed every rumor of Paul leaving as unsubstantiated and attempted to suggest that no one was talking about CP3 leaving New Orleans and that Paul had said he was going to stay and that Dell Demps had said he was going to stay and Demps had been reported as resistant to a trade so obviously the only reasonable conclusion we can draw from credible sources is that CP3 is going to stay in New Orleans.

   Sure, if we're in a universe where you don't see any difference in the tone of the message that was coming out of CP's camp and what Rondo and his agent are saying now. Which may be the case. Are you claiming that whatever Rondo said to Danny was as definitive as what you think CP's camp told the Hornets?

[D.o.s.]

To the best of my knowledge, no one knows exactly what CP3 and company told the Hornets beyond agreeing to the idea of him leaving the team via trade at some point.

[BballTim]

To the best of my knowledge, no one knows exactly what CP3 and company told the Hornets beyond agreeing to the idea of him leaving the team via trade at some point.

  So you're saying that when you heard all the trade proposal rumors you had no idea what prompted them? That you hadn't the slightest idea that he'd talked to them about opting out of his contract?

[D.o.s.]

What did CP3 and his camp definitively tell the Hornets? Establish your own baseline, then we can determine some sort of likelihood related to Rondo.

[BballTim]

What did CP3 and his camp definitively tell the Hornets? Establish your own baseline, then we can determine some sort of likelihood related to Rondo.

  I'd say he said something definitive enough to the Hornets that they immediately put him on the market. He was traded (twice, actually) within 2 weeks or so of the initial report of his talking about leaving the team. We're much farther away from Jackie's comment than that, her claim was refuted by all parties and there hasn't been any notable trade talks we've heard about. Draw whatever conclusions you like from that.