WYC/Ainge/Stevens speak on Celtics (players, training camp, etc)

[D.o.s.]

The question is still, and has always been, who has more to lose by being deceptive and/or disingenuous in casual professional discourse: Jackie McMullan or Danny Ainge?

Add salt accordingly.

That's not the question.

The question is, did Rondo tell the Celtics "I want out".  Not "I want out if the team doesn't get better".  Not "I want out if I don't get a max contract".  But "I want out" with the clear implication that it's trade him or else.

Mike

I'm not surprised that you think this is the most important question to come out of this debacle.

[D.o.s.]

The question is still, and has always been, who has more to lose by being deceptive and/or disingenuous in casual professional discourse: Jackie McMullan or Danny Ainge?

Add salt accordingly.

  Danny's not the only one who's disagreed with Jackie. Pretty much all of the statements by any of the relevant parties before or after her claim do.

Don't worry, I don't think your binkie is going anywhere. Unless he loses his starting gig to Fab Melo.

  Does that make Jackie your binkie? At least I'm not in a position of diligently defending her claim when you don't really seem to believe that it's true and accurate.

My binkie is Bethlehem Shoals. Or, maybe, in this case, Occam's Razor.

[chambers]

The question is still, and has always been, who has more to lose by being deceptive and/or disingenuous in casual professional discourse: Jackie McMullan or Danny Ainge?

Add salt accordingly.

  Danny's not the only one who's disagreed with Jackie. Pretty much all of the statements by any of the relevant parties before or after her claim do.

Don't worry, I don't think your binkie is going anywhere. Unless he loses his starting gig to Fab Melo.

  Does that make Jackie your binkie? At least I'm not in a position of diligently defending her claim when you don't really seem to believe that it's true and accurate.

So who were the relevant parties and what would you expect them to say to Jackie's comments?
I'll add that I don't think D.o.s has concluded whether her comments are true or not. I think he's explained that you should give Jackie Mac some credibility and not completely dismiss her comments like it's Chris Broussard or something.

[D.o.s.]

I think she thinks it's true, and I think that she's not one to be creating something out of nothing just to hear herself talk.

And, again, who has more to lose by spreading false information to the public, Ainge or Jackie Mac (or Rondo's Agent, or Wyc, or any two people you care to compare)? That's always the question that needs to drive any sort of discussion around these sort of press conference disseminated tweets and things.

[BballTim]

The question is still, and has always been, who has more to lose by being deceptive and/or disingenuous in casual professional discourse: Jackie McMullan or Danny Ainge?

Add salt accordingly.

  Danny's not the only one who's disagreed with Jackie. Pretty much all of the statements by any of the relevant parties before or after her claim do.

Don't worry, I don't think your binkie is going anywhere. Unless he loses his starting gig to Fab Melo.

  Does that make Jackie your binkie? At least I'm not in a position of diligently defending her claim when you don't really seem to believe that it's true and accurate.

So who were the relevant parties and what would you expect them to say to Jackie's comments?

 In terms of whether or not Rondo told the team he wants out of  Boston, I'd say the relevant parties are Rondo, his agent and the Celts ownership/management. They were all saying pretty much the opposite of Jackie's claim before she made it and they're still saying the opposite of what she did. If Rondo wants out I'd expect him to say that, just like most players who want out say they do. It puts pressure on the team to grant his wish.

I'll add that I don't think D.o.s has concluded whether her comments are true or not. I think he's explained that you should give Jackie Mac some credibility and not completely dismiss her comments like it's Chris Broussard or something.

  Sure, he has no reason not ot hedge his bets. But I don't think that too many people who were defending Jackie think it's more than likely that Rondo's told the team he wants out of Boston.

[BballTim]

I think she thinks it's true, and I think that she's not one to be creating something out of nothing just to hear herself talk.

And, again, who has more to lose by spreading false information to the public, Ainge or Jackie Mac (or Rondo's Agent, or Wyc, or any two people you care to compare)? That's always the question that needs to drive any sort of discussion around these sort of press conference disseminated tweets and things.

  The reality is Jackie gains publicity by making the claim that she did, and she's got little or nothing to lose. Everybody involved in the situation has said that there's nothing truthful at all to the claim yet that does nothing to dissuade her supporters. I doubt that anything short of Jackie stating that she made the story up would lead you to consider that she didn't have a source. If Rondo signs with the Celts next summer her supporters will list any transactions or player improvements as evidence that it might have been true and then changed. There is no downside for her.

[D.o.s.]

The reality is Jackie gains publicity by making the claim that she did, and she's got little or nothing to lose.

That's a tenuous reality you live in, Tim. When people make outlandish/untrue claims it affects their relationships with anyone they'd want to talk to in a professional capacity. On the other hand, the last thing Ainge wants is to be forced into a Love/Anthony situation where everyone is sitting around waiting to see where Rondo goes because they all know he's leaving.

"I really don't know where that came from, as far as if I was to come here the extension wasn't going to be signed. I really don't know who started that," Anthony said. "There's a lot of things that are being said out there that I don't know where they came from. Sources, I guess. As far as the extension, if that trade were to go through, who knows what would've happened. I can't really answer that."

So for now Anthony remains with the Nuggets, who lost 115-99 to the Nets in their first meeting since trade talks collapsed for the second time this season.

Anthony said he doesn't know how much longer he'll be with the Nuggets – or even if he'll ever leave. But he said he hasn't spoken recently with general manager Masai Ujiri and team president Josh Kroenke, who have to decide if they want to move their superstar before the Feb. 24 trade deadline or deal with this situation straight into the offseason.

"When something starts brewing, or something starts going on, then I'm pretty sure Masai and Josh will come to me and let me know what's going on," Anthony said.

Before the game, coach George Karl said he still believes he might be coaching Anthony all season.

"I've always felt from the very beginning of the season that the chance of that happening was greater than all you all thought," Karl said. "I just felt that way from the first day of training camp, from September, I've always felt that way."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/31/carmelo-anthony-may-stay-_n_816672.html

“People think it's so far-fetched that I would stay in Minnesota,” he says. “And I'm not Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ting on the Lakers, but we have the better team, the better foundation. I'm having fun.”

http://www.gq.com/style/grooming/201403/kevin-love-minnesota-timberwolves-hair-beard-upgrade

Rumors of Love telling me he's opting out & wants 2 b traded r false. Last convo I had w/ him was him telling me how bad my sports coat was.

https://twitter.com/Flip_Saunders/status/436360466512609280
I'm not saying Rondo's saying, I'm not saying he's not, but I am saying that the team has a vested interest, from a financial perspective (not selling a lot of Rondo jerseys/apparel if you know he's leaving) as well as a basketball ops position, in making everyone think that he's not leaving.

[Endless Paradise]

... she has little or nothing to lose by making false claims?  Really?  Credibility doesn't factor in here?

I guess not.  I mean, after all, it's not like there's a difference between a Wojnarowski and a Broussard.

[BballTim]

The reality is Jackie gains publicity by making the claim that she did, and she's got little or nothing to lose.

That's a tenuous reality you live in, Tim. When people make outlandish/untrue claims it affects their relationships with anyone they'd want to talk to in a professional capacity. On the other hand, the last thing Ainge wants is to be forced into a Love/Anthony situation where everyone is sitting around waiting to see where Rondo goes because they all know he's leaving.

  So, in your reality, reporters don't go public with rumors unless they know that the claims are true? I doubt that's the case. But you're trying to say that Jackie would never make an untrue claim about Rondo telling the team that he wants out of Boston because she would ruin her relationship with the Celts, so you're certain that he's told the team he's leaving? I think your reality is at least as tenuous as mine.

I'm not saying Rondo's saying, I'm not saying he's not, but I am saying that the team has a vested interest, from a financial perspective (not selling a lot of Rondo jerseys/apparel if you know he's leaving) as well as a basketball ops position, in making everyone think that he's not leaving.

  The team does, Rondo really doesn't. That's why it made sense for teams to deny that they were trying to trade CP/Melo/DH/Love/fill in the player, but the players weren't exactly working overtime to snuff out rumors that they were leaving.

[D.o.s.]

Technically speaking, she didn't go public with the claim, it was put onto youtube by the producers of the show, but then again, you also don't think she's got anything to lose by being outed, as it were, so I suspect that nuance is also going to escape you.

The reality is Jackie gains publicity by making the claim that she did, and she's got little or nothing to lose.

That's a tenuous reality you live in, Tim. When people make outlandish/untrue claims it affects their relationships with anyone they'd want to talk to in a professional capacity. On the other hand, the last thing Ainge wants is to be forced into a Love/Anthony situation where everyone is sitting around waiting to see where Rondo goes because they all know he's leaving.

  So, in your reality, reporters don't go public with rumors unless they know that the claims are true? I doubt that's the case. But you're trying to say that Jackie would never make an untrue claim about Rondo telling the team that he wants out of Boston because she would ruin her relationship with the Celts, so you're certain that he's told the team he's leaving? I think your reality is at least as tenuous as mine.

The bolded is a nice bit of a 'you think this ergo you must think this' strawman. I already explained what I thought about the matter, and I'll repeat it here for you, since you obviously missed it the first time:

I think she thinks it's true, and I think that she's not one to be creating something out of nothing just to hear herself talk.

[MBunge]

The question is still, and has always been, who has more to lose by being deceptive and/or disingenuous in casual professional discourse: Jackie McMullan or Danny Ainge?

Add salt accordingly.

That's not the question.

The question is, did Rondo tell the Celtics "I want out".  Not "I want out if the team doesn't get better".  Not "I want out if I don't get a max contract".  But "I want out" with the clear implication that it's trade him or else.

Mike

I'm not surprised that you think this is the most important question to come out of this debacle.

I don't THINK it's the most important question.  It is the most important question.

There are plenty of other interesting elements of the story to discuss, but if the subject is "Rondo's future with Boston" then whether or not he said "I want out" is the most important thing to know.

I would ask how that eludes you but the answer to that is obvious.

Mike

[D.o.s.]

You're adorable, in that you don't think where the answer to the question your asking comes from makes a difference.

Danny Ainge's answer to "did Rondo ask out of Boston" has to be held in much higher suspicion than Jackie McMullan's answer to the same question, because Danny Ainge has much more at stake in regards to the real answer, and much less to lose by lying about it.

[MBunge]

I think she thinks it's true, and I think that she's not one to be creating something out of nothing just to hear herself talk.

Except she didn't say "I think" about anything.  She was making FACTUAL CLAIMS about the situation.  She wasn't theorizing or hypothesizing or speculating.  She said Rondo told the Celtics he "wants out".  She also said "nobody believes me", indicating that no one else has been told the same information by their sources.

Mike

[MBunge]

You're adorable, in that you don't think where the answer to the question your asking comes from makes a difference.

Danny Ainge's answer to "did Rondo ask out of Boston" has to be held in much higher suspicion than Jackie McMullan's answer to the same question, because Danny Ainge has much more at stake in regards to the real answer, and much less to lose by lying about it.

It's not about where the answer comes from.  It's about the answer itself.

Jackie says it happened.  Not only do Rondo and the Celtics deny it, NO ONE ELSE IN THE MEDIA HAS EVEN WHISPERED ABOUT IT HAPPENING.

You keep trying to pretend this is Jackie vs. Ainge.  It's Jackie vs. everyone else, including common sense.

Mike

[D.o.s.]

People in the media have talked about a Rondo trade more frequently than you might imagine. No one's "whispered about it" in official channels because there's not enough on the record sourcing to make a story out of it, but people like Simmons make causal references to the fact that Rondo's gone, ESPN does power rankings with the implication that Rondo's on his way out, etc.

Jesus, you might not be a journalist but haven't you seen All The President's Men? No sources, no story.

I think she thinks it's true, and I think that she's not one to be creating something out of nothing just to hear herself talk.

Except she didn't say "I think" about anything.  She was making FACTUAL CLAIMS about the situation.  She wasn't theorizing or hypothesizing or speculating.  She said Rondo told the Celtics he "wants out".  She also said "nobody believes me", indicating that no one else has been told the same information by their sources.

Mike

Your reading comprehension is taking a serious hit for some reason. Breathe in, Breathe out, lay off the caps lock, count to ten, and reread.


If someone tells you, sorry, if someone MAKES THE FACTUAL CLAIM that the Earth is only 6,000 years old, they are telling you that they think the earth is only 6,000 years old. Whether or not you believe what they are telling you is largely irrelevant. Which is why I said that I think Jackie thinks it's true, which has nothing to do with what I think on the matter.