Paul George says stupid things in defense of Ray Rice

[Future Celtics Owner]

I am just amazed how our lame stream media is just now getting on guys for things like this, in professional sports. And to compare Rice to Vick.....not in my book. Rice made a split second decision compared to Vick, who over time tortured and murdered man's best friend.

[D.o.s.]

The involvement of law enforcement in this case is what has me baffled as well.  I mean if they (LE) saw the tape, don't they have an obligation to bring charges against rice?

They did bring charges. The prosecutors agreed to the pretrial intervention after the charges were brought. Double jeopardy exists, and that's why they can't charge him again.

  From what I have read it is because he is a 1st time offender, and was offered a Pre-Trial Intervention program that requires attendance in a rehabilitation program and will eventually remove this from his record.

So my question is, when the act is so violent, why would the DA allow the pre-trial intervention?

Because he's a famous athlete.

I mean do you have to put someone in the hospital before a 1st time offender would be tried?

You don't. I don't. Ray Rice probably would.

[indeedproceed]

The involvement of law enforcement in this case is what has me baffled as well.  I mean if they (LE) saw the tape, don't they have an obligation to bring charges against rice?

They did bring charges. The prosecutors agreed to the pretrial intervention after the charges were brought. Double jeopardy exists, and that's why they can't charge him again.

  From what I have read it is because he is a 1st time offender, and was offered a Pre-Trial Intervention program that requires attendance in a rehabilitation program and will eventually remove this from his record.

So my question is, when the act is so violent, why would the DA allow the pre-trial intervention?

Because he's a famous athlete.

I mean do you have to put someone in the hospital before a 1st time offender would be tried?

You don't. I don't. Ray Rice probably would.

Don't be so certain. DV cases are ugly an terrible, regular monsters but contrite monsters get off with with a slap on the wrist all the time.

[Tr1boy]

triboy a counselor of DV?

How do I not know you aren't a counselor for DV, triboy. Because one, you can't even spell counselor properly and two, counselors in DV are called advocates.

What does your silly point above have anything to do with the topic?

[Tr1boy]

The lack of knowledge on the psychology and dynamics of domestic violence in this thread is astounding. Of course Janay forgave him and said everything was okay and stayed with him. It's what abuse victim's do. ALL THE TIME! And then they get abused again, and again, and again.

The only difference between this episode of DV and the thousands of others that occur in the country every week is it was caught entirely on tape. If people think this is any different than the vast majority of DV incidences, they are sorely mistaken.

Really disappointed by some with their comments in this thread that downplay DV and try to put the victim on trial. I guess for lawyers that would be expected because putting the victim on trial is what they do since lawyers only defend innocent people, but come on people!

Really? She spit at him? She hit him? Testicular fortitude talk? I mean wow! The man is an incredibly strong professional athlete who hit a 120 person knocking them clear off their feet. He got off easy from law enforcement, as most stars and DV abusers do.

If you were in an elevator and you got into an argument with a lady (physically weaker than you) you don't know her, she starts to hit you and spit on you what will you do?

Can she go to jail/be fined for her actions?

I think you know where i'm going with this.  Some of us are stating the obvious, what rice a person 2 times the size and strength did to her is wrong regardless.   Yet some ppl keep excusing her (and others that are weaker in a similar situation) bc they are not as big and strong. So it's a pass.    Well it's not. Its still a violent act and she should of kept her composure. He should of kept his composure. If they both did, i bet nothing happens outside of alot of yelling

And for you to also predict that he abuses her at home without knowing that , that is the truth, is horrible to say.   That is as bad as saying , someone who has served time for a crime they committed, but when they come out are already labelled as a thief etc.

I was married to an advocate of victims for DV. Over 15+ years of seeing my kids ask the same questions you are asking let's me know that like them, you have no clue what you are talking about.

If Rice never hit her, the elevator opens and he has a choice, call casino security and press charges against her for DV or walk away, leave her alone, call her on the phone, tell her if she ever lifts a finger to touch him he will press charges and leave her forever and go forward from there.

That's the answer to confrontational avoidance. You walk away or call the authorities to make it stop. Its really that simple.

So bc you are/were married to someone who dealt with this situation, this matter makes you an expert?  can you get off your high horse , please

How do you know i'm not a counsellor regarding this matter??   

To me you think you have a clue on this issue, but really your the one that doesn't.   You try to represent Janay, a way you think she wants to be represented. You think you know her when you clearly don't

You think you know what he does after the camera is put down , but you don't, nobody here does.  Bc some victims unfortunately get abused on a regular basis, one violant act equates to consistent acts.  Whats next, bc i had a beer today, i'm probably an alchoholic??

come on man.

As politely as possible, I'd like to point out that Nick's position has been significantly more logical than yours so far in this thread.

His logic  = bc of one bad incident, he probably physical abuses her on a regular basis. 

That is logical?

My argument is, we don't know what is going on in their lives, so why act like you know? Yes there are certain patterns to consider.  But also you can't use that pattern/knowledge in every situation.  That is what starts crap/accusations

If a person has made a mistake, they paid the price for it, they regret what they did, i think they are allowed to move on.  If you don't think they are allowed to, then what?

[blink]

The involvement of law enforcement in this case is what has me baffled as well.  I mean if they (LE) saw the tape, don't they have an obligation to bring charges against rice?

They did bring charges. The prosecutors agreed to the pretrial intervention after the charges were brought. Double jeopardy exists, and that's why they can't charge him again.

  From what I have read it is because he is a 1st time offender, and was offered a Pre-Trial Intervention program that requires attendance in a rehabilitation program and will eventually remove this from his record.

So my question is, when the act is so violent, why would the DA allow the pre-trial intervention?

Because he's a famous athlete.

I mean do you have to put someone in the hospital before a 1st time offender would be tried?

You don't. I don't. Ray Rice probably would.

I understand the concept of double jep.  I wasn't saying that they could charge him again, I just don't understand how it ended up in a pre-trial intervention to begin with.

I disagree that just because someone is a famous athlete that they always get special treatment.  It may happen sometimes, but to have that be the knee jerk reaction response, eh...I mean I know it was a joke, but I was more interested in a legal perspective.

[Tr1boy]

I am just amazed how our lame stream media is just now getting on guys for things like this, in professional sports. And to compare Rice to Vick.....not in my book. Rice made a split second decision compared to Vick, who over time tortured and murdered man's best friend.

What Rice and Vick both did are bad.

Vick served his time and i haven't heard him getting involved with dog fighting or getting into any other issues.

Why not give the guy a break?

-Ujiri on the Danny Ferry situation-

"You discover a person’s true character in their ability to learn from and then move on from those mistakes. One of the truly important things we must learn is how to forgive."

[D.o.s.]

I'm much more open to the idea that Ray Rice deserves a chance at penance, the same way Vick has, than I am to the idea that we shouldn't go after the NFL for their part in this colossal clusterEdited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.

[nickagneta]

The reality, blink, is that most DV cases never make it to trial. Different areas have different laws but the number one reason for this is the victim drops the charges and in many jurisdiction that ends the case. Also, for first time offenders, intervention without trial is one of the first solutions offered. The perpetrator goes in counseling, the victim goes to support therapy and couples therapy is involved. It tries to keep one time offenders who are not serial abusers from serious consequences as well as keeping the victim in the system and with support in case it's not a one time event.

I will say though that the video of the event and the magnitude of the abuse in this incident seemed egregious enough not to offer pre trial intervention but every jurisdiction is different. With a million different communities and no national DV legislation you are bound to see massive differences in punishment handed out. Most prosecutors don't have what that NJ DA had so it's rather strange this went to invention rather than trial.

Really does seem that fame could have played a roll in this judge'a decision

[indeedproceed]

My argument is, we don't know what is going on in their lives, so why act like you know? Yes there are certain patterns to consider.  But also you can't use that pattern/knowledge in every situation.  That is what starts crap/accusations

If a person has made a mistake, they paid the price for it, they regret what they did, i think they are allowed to move on.  If you don't think they are allowed to, then what?

I'm sure that situations like the one you're suggesting happen, and it's possible that that's the case here. It is however unlikely in the grand scheme of things. Like Nick's wife , my wife is also a superhero, and living with it for as long as I have, even on the outside, you should just forget everything you've ever learned about domestic violence. It's much more terrible, prevalent, and ubiquitous than you realize.

[nickagneta]

My argument is, we don't know what is going on in their lives, so why act like you know? Yes there are certain patterns to consider.  But also you can't use that pattern/knowledge in every situation.  That is what starts crap/accusations

If a person has made a mistake, they paid the price for it, they regret what they did, i think they are allowed to move on.  If you don't think they are allowed to, then what?

I'm sure that situations like the one you're suggesting happen, and it's possible that that's the case here. It is however unlikely in the grand scheme of things. Like Nick's wife , my wife is also a superhero, and living with it for as long as I have, even on the outside, you should just forget everything you've ever learned about domestic violence. It's much more terrible, prevalent, and ubiquitous than you realize.

awesome calling ours wives superheroes. TP. The amount of stress and sleepless nights they have over the job is incredible. I begged her for years to get out. The strain on her was incredible.

[indeedproceed]

My argument is, we don't know what is going on in their lives, so why act like you know? Yes there are certain patterns to consider.  But also you can't use that pattern/knowledge in every situation.  That is what starts crap/accusations

If a person has made a mistake, they paid the price for it, they regret what they did, i think they are allowed to move on.  If you don't think they are allowed to, then what?

I'm sure that situations like the one you're suggesting happen, and it's possible that that's the case here. It is however unlikely in the grand scheme of things. Like Nick's wife , my wife is also a superhero, and living with it for as long as I have, even on the outside, you should just forget everything you've ever learned about domestic violence. It's much more terrible, prevalent, and ubiquitous than you realize.

awesome calling ours wives superheroes. TP. The amount of stress and sleepless nights they have over the job is incredible. I begged her for years to get out. The strain on her was incredible.

TP back at you. And they are heroes, they take the burdens of others on to their own shoulders as if they were their own, and leaving that at work to come home and be 'normal' is just about impossible, but they do it.

[celticslove]

The only time i can understand PG's grammar is when his PR people writes his apology for him.lol

[kraidstar]

1. Solange was blasted for it by some, but given that no harm occurred it wasn't a big deal. Jay Z was given props for not retaliating and letting people break it up. 2. How the heck is it relevant? Because it is 100% not relevant.

Going back to this situation, Ray Rice then gf , started punching him and spitting on his face.  We don't know if he has been beaten , spit on , in the past. And maybe he just snapped at the elevator.  It's still inexcusable for what he did but she was also in the bad. 

They both want to move on from this.  Most woman who get assaulted without starting anything don't behave how Janay has.  So there could be more to their personal situation than most ppl know.

Ray Rice has nothing to fear from Janay physically unless she has a weapon, and she didn't have one in that elevator. If you honestly watch that video and think she's "attacking" him in a manner that makes you equivocate like you are then you and I are never going to see eye to eye.

I mean read your own words, you're writing more about Janay like she's an abuser than the man who knocked his fiance unconscious and treated her limp body like it was a sleeping dog whom he needed to get moving. (or a sack of potatoes)

All I can do is roll my eyes, but that feels inadequate because your sort of attitude enables a lot of violence across this world. Janay is in a crappy situation and I hope she's safe amid this stressful time, but abuse victims ask to just move on all the time. It doesn't end well for far too many of them.

no matter how dysfunctional a relationship may be, it should never devolve into physical violence, but some people just seem to have that ignorant mentality. when the woman has that mentality, it can add a layer of complexity to the situation.
obviously janay was no match for ray physically, but i've known women who are literally just as strong as some men pound for pound, it's not an urban myth, it's uncommon but sometimes true. the former wife of a friend of mine, for instance, could punch incredibly hard (and she loved to demonstrate it), and she was, to put it politely, very unsophisticated. she made my friend's life hell, and she frequently instigated physical altercations with various people, landing herself in jail numerous times (thankfully she's long gone from his life).
some women are legitimately dangerous, and as a person who's seen it happen firsthand, i can see how some other men recoil slightly from the "it's always wrong to hit women" absolute statements. the overall mentality of using violence to solve disputes is wrong, but sometimes there is self-defense involved. so i do get that part of it.
but...
overall history shows that men have physically abused women a heck of a lot more than the reverse, and so as a society it's important that men be aware of that history, and of their own strength, and be restrained and responsible. if she starts getting physical, the guy just needs to walk away. if it persists, call the police.

[LooseCannon]

The involvement of law enforcement in this case is what has me baffled as well.  I mean if they (LE) saw the tape, don't they have an obligation to bring charges against rice?  From what I have read it is because he is a 1st time offender, and was offered a Pre-Trial Intervention program that requires attendance in a rehabilitation program and will eventually remove this from his record.

So my question is, when the act is so violent, why would the DA allow the pre-trial intervention?
I mean do you have to put someone in the hospital before a 1st time offender would be tried?

According the prosecutor, it's because if this had gone to trial, it would have ended with a probationary sentence since Rice was charged with third-degree aggravated assault and not a more serious crime.  He claims that the difference between pre-trial intervention and a trial resulting in two years of probation was not enough to make it worth making Janay Rice have to deal with the stress of a trial.