Paul George says stupid things in defense of Ray Rice

[GreenWarrior]

also, for the record, "trippin'" has nothing to do with forgiveness. It's analogous to being bent out of shape. I meant to post that days ago.

here, this article mentions it:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/areva-martin/domestic-violence-in-nfl-_b_5800074.html

"domestic violence accounts for 48 percent of arrests for violent crimes among NFL players" and "the 55.4 percent arrest rate for domestic violence is more than four times worse than the NFL's arrest rate for all offenses," according to Benjamin Morris, senior writer for FiveThirtyEight.com.

[D.o.s.]

Aha! It's the five-thirty-eight article from the other thread (or maybe it's this thread).

TP for the source!

[GreenWarrior]

Aha! It's the five-thirty-eight article from the other thread (or maybe it's this thread).

TP for the source!

yeah I generally don't just go spewin nonsense. most times I just don't feel like goin through the trouble of finding articles, links and such. or in this case didn't remember the source mentioned.

[fairweatherfan]

also, for the record, "trippin'" has nothing to do with forgiveness. It's analogous to being bent out of shape. I meant to post that days ago.

here, this article mentions it:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/areva-martin/domestic-violence-in-nfl-_b_5800074.html

"domestic violence accounts for 48 percent of arrests for violent crimes among NFL players" and "the 55.4 percent arrest rate for domestic violence is more than four times worse than the NFL's arrest rate for all offenses," according to Benjamin Morris, senior writer for FiveThirtyEight.com.

Wow, that 55% figure is really getting misstated.  It means that NFL players are getting arrested for DV at about half the rate of comparable young males, which is still disproportionately higher than their rate of other offenses. 

Seems like a lot of journalists and advocacy groups are leaving the context out and presenting it in ways that imply that over half of NFL players get arrested for DV, when it's actually about .25% of players per year.  This is where "statistics = lies" attitudes come from.

[GreenWarrior]

also, for the record, "trippin'" has nothing to do with forgiveness. It's analogous to being bent out of shape. I meant to post that days ago.

here, this article mentions it:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/areva-martin/domestic-violence-in-nfl-_b_5800074.html

"domestic violence accounts for 48 percent of arrests for violent crimes among NFL players" and "the 55.4 percent arrest rate for domestic violence is more than four times worse than the NFL's arrest rate for all offenses," according to Benjamin Morris, senior writer for FiveThirtyEight.com.

Wow, that 55% figure is really getting misstated.  It means that NFL players are getting arrested for DV at about half the rate of comparable young males, which is still disproportionately higher than their rate of other offenses. 

Seems like a lot of journalists and advocacy groups are leaving the context out and presenting it in ways that imply that over half of NFL players get arrested for DV, when it's actually about .25% of players per year.  This is where "statistics = lies" attitudes come from.

true, and i'm hardly a numbers person for the reason you stated. but that article is only stating arrests. i'm thinking the number for domestic violence situations that don't get reported is much higher though. pure speculation on my part but i'm ok with that. 

[Ogaju]

I'm much more open to the idea that Ray Rice deserves a chance at penance, the same way Vick has, than I am to the idea that we shouldn't go after the NFL for their part in this colossal cluster****

This is pretty right on and where most of my anger has been directed the last few days.

I'm p---ed at the league and the way they totally botched this case and the subsequent "cover up" and the Peter Kings of the world who continue to lay in bed with the league & such.

What Rice did was wrong & reprehensible. No doubt about it.  But he's been punished multiple times now for this offense while Goodell continues to have a job and, seemingly, owner and some media support.  The amount of arrogance the NFL displayed thru this whole incident has been pretty awful. 

Why shouldn't people be p---ed at the NFL or the Ravens?

Rice is okay, but we should be p---ed off at the NFL and the Ravens? For what? What did they do? If you do not like how the NFL handles their business then vote with your feet. Be p---ed at yourself by supporting an organization that does not fit your moral compass. But don't tell me they are more culpable than the guy that did the crime.

[D.o.s.]

You, uh, didn't answer his question.

[Donoghus]

I'm much more open to the idea that Ray Rice deserves a chance at penance, the same way Vick has, than I am to the idea that we shouldn't go after the NFL for their part in this colossal cluster****

This is pretty right on and where most of my anger has been directed the last few days.

I'm p---ed at the league and the way they totally botched this case and the subsequent "cover up" and the Peter Kings of the world who continue to lay in bed with the league & such.

What Rice did was wrong & reprehensible. No doubt about it.  But he's been punished multiple times now for this offense while Goodell continues to have a job and, seemingly, owner and some media support.  The amount of arrogance the NFL displayed thru this whole incident has been pretty awful. 

Why shouldn't people be p---ed at the NFL or the Ravens?

Rice is okay, but we should be p---ed off at the NFL and the Ravens? For what? What did they do? If you do not like how the NFL handles their business then vote with your feet. Be p---ed at yourself by supporting an organization that does not fit your moral compass. But don't tell me they are more culpable than the guy that did the crime.

They're not more culpable but there is every reason to be p---ed off at them too.  This isn't some absolute either/or situation we're dealing with here.

[Ogaju]

George completely ignores the fact that she could very well be forced to act like "she aint trippin".

Come on.  They weren't married when it happened.  She married him after that.  She wasn't forced to do anything.  Now she may have battered women's syndrome where she sympathizes and believes it was her fault and that could explain her actions.  Or maybe just maybe this was a one time thing and they are working on moving past the incident and wish to do so in private.  Just no way to know for sure.

while I am very biased in this situation after experiencing a sister go through this. like you said there is no way to know for sure what exactly is going on. which makes George's comments even that more ignorant imo because he doesn't know either. if the woman ends up dead he's going to feel as dumb as we all think he looks right now....which is why his agent had him take the tweet down.

i'll just say this, while not knowing the exact number I do know in most domestic violence cases against women it's usually not just a one time thing.

Okay this is just getting silly, the woman says she had a part to play in this (but we should not believe her), the woman marries him after the act (yet we should not believe her), the woman blasts everyone that is showing concern to leave her family alone (yet we should not believe her), the woman says she is going to show the world what true love is (yet we should not believe her). PG says if she aint trippin, then he aint trippin (we should call him dumb). He is the dumb one, not Janay Rice -- it is PG that is dumb. Janay Rice just gets a pass because she is a victim. How do you save someone who does not want to save herself. PG has it right, he is saying exactly what you guys are saying in code which is 'leave them alone to sort out their business no one really knows what is going on'.

At some point to save DV victims from themselves you have to employ tough love. You got either tell them to get out while they can, or leave them alone. There is not a whole lot more you can do.

At some points adults need to be responsible for their own self. Society needs to step up. To all men who ever raise their hand against a woman I say you need help. Anything inside you that makes you want to beat a woman needs to be addressed by a mental health expert. Stay away from that woman until you beat that demon. To a woman that gets hit, I say anything that makes you want to stay with a man that hits you needs to be addressed by a mental health expert. I doubt that the State can compel a victim that stands up for her abuser to mental care, but we need new solutions because what we are doing is not working.

[Ogaju]

I think it's weird that we've started calling her just 'Janay'. Like she's going to be at brunch on Sunday or something.

LOL TP

[Ogaju]

also, for the record, "trippin'" has nothing to do with forgiveness. It's analogous to being bent out of shape. I meant to post that days ago.

of course it does not mean forgiveness, but that works in this situation.... if she aint mad at him, I aint mad at him. Same difference. But I agree it does not necessarily mean forgiveness, it could though.

[Ogaju]

well I've always been under the assumption when it came to things like this - once was enough.

so no, I don't think she's thinking clearly.

from viewing the tape I personally feel this was an isolated incident because if she was in a relationship that she was being battered previously I just don't think she would have attacked him at all. but that is just a guess.

I just don't live in a world where it would be accepted by any woman I know where a boyfriend or husband would be allowed to do something like this.

my sister was in a relationship like this. who had a history of dating the "wrong guy" and ultimately married the "wrong guy". it took getting thrown out a second story window to finally realize she was in the wrong relationship. come to find out this wasn't the 1st incident.

she had children with this guy, if she hadn't gotten out of this relationship the children might not have a mother or a father.

so i'll continue to be biased to the situation and say once is enough.

Its control -- look at any DV case with the victim having the battered spouse syndrome there is control, and it is not necessarily money. I just do not understand why in DV cases the focus has always being from the standpoint of the victim. As long as the abuser's perspective is not studied this issue will remain intractable. Why do some men feel the need to control women, and why do they want to be with women they beat? This needs study. Just walk away I just don't get being with a woman you beat. You should be with a woman for love not hate.

[GreenWarrior]

George completely ignores the fact that she could very well be forced to act like "she aint trippin".

Come on.  They weren't married when it happened.  She married him after that.  She wasn't forced to do anything.  Now she may have battered women's syndrome where she sympathizes and believes it was her fault and that could explain her actions.  Or maybe just maybe this was a one time thing and they are working on moving past the incident and wish to do so in private.  Just no way to know for sure.

while I am very biased in this situation after experiencing a sister go through this. like you said there is no way to know for sure what exactly is going on. which makes George's comments even that more ignorant imo because he doesn't know either. if the woman ends up dead he's going to feel as dumb as we all think he looks right now....which is why his agent had him take the tweet down.

i'll just say this, while not knowing the exact number I do know in most domestic violence cases against women it's usually not just a one time thing.

Okay this is just getting silly, the woman says she had a part to play in this (but we should not believe her), the woman marries him after the act (yet we should not believe her), the woman blasts everyone that is showing concern to leave her family alone (yet we should not believe her), the woman says she is going to show the world what true love is (yet we should not believe her). PG says if she aint trippin, then he aint trippin (we should call him dumb). He is the dumb one, not Janay Rice -- it is PG that is dumb. Janay Rice just gets a pass because she is a victim. How do you save someone who does not want to save herself. PG has it right, he is saying exactly what you guys are saying in code which is 'leave them alone to sort out their business no one really knows what is going on'.

At some point to save DV victims from themselves you have to employ tough love. You got either tell them to get out while they can, or leave them alone. There is not a whole lot more you can do.

At some points adults need to be responsible for their own self. Society needs to step up. To all men who ever raise their hand against a woman I say you need help. Anything inside you that makes you want to beat a woman needs to be addressed by a mental health expert. Stay away from that woman until you beat that demon. To a woman that gets hit, I say anything that makes you want to stay with a man that hits you needs to be addressed by a mental health expert. I doubt that the State can compel a victim that stands up for her abuser to mental care, but we need new solutions because what we are doing is not working.

ultimately it comes down to the woman having the courage to stand up for herself. like I said in a previous post. I don't know one woman that would tolerate or take the chance of it happening again, or put their children at risk to witness such an act or be left without a mother or a father or both. with the exception of my sister & it took my sister a long time to get the courage to take it upon herself. but she's never going down that path again.

now, when it comes to the Rice's we don't know the whole story or how their relationship is. but we can certainly say she doesn't look like she has much respect for herself. maybe that's harsh but I just can't fathom a reason to knock a girl out and I can't fathom a reason why a girl would tolerate such an act.

[Tr1boy]

George completely ignores the fact that she could very well be forced to act like "she aint trippin".

Come on.  They weren't married when it happened.  She married him after that.  She wasn't forced to do anything.  Now she may have battered women's syndrome where she sympathizes and believes it was her fault and that could explain her actions.  Or maybe just maybe this was a one time thing and they are working on moving past the incident and wish to do so in private.  Just no way to know for sure.

while I am very biased in this situation after experiencing a sister go through this. like you said there is no way to know for sure what exactly is going on. which makes George's comments even that more ignorant imo because he doesn't know either. if the woman ends up dead he's going to feel as dumb as we all think he looks right now....which is why his agent had him take the tweet down.

i'll just say this, while not knowing the exact number I do know in most domestic violence cases against women it's usually not just a one time thing.

Okay this is just getting silly, the woman says she had a part to play in this (but we should not believe her), the woman marries him after the act (yet we should not believe her), the woman blasts everyone that is showing concern to leave her family alone (yet we should not believe her), the woman says she is going to show the world what true love is (yet we should not believe her). PG says if she aint trippin, then he aint trippin (we should call him dumb). He is the dumb one, not Janay Rice -- it is PG that is dumb. Janay Rice just gets a pass because she is a victim. How do you save someone who does not want to save herself. PG has it right, he is saying exactly what you guys are saying in code which is 'leave them alone to sort out their business no one really knows what is going on'.

At some point to save DV victims from themselves you have to employ tough love. You got either tell them to get out while they can, or leave them alone. There is not a whole lot more you can do.

At some points adults need to be responsible for their own self. Society needs to step up. To all men who ever raise their hand against a woman I say you need help. Anything inside you that makes you want to beat a woman needs to be addressed by a mental health expert. Stay away from that woman until you beat that demon. To a woman that gets hit, I say anything that makes you want to stay with a man that hits you needs to be addressed by a mental health expert. I doubt that the State can compel a victim that stands up for her abuser to mental care, but we need new solutions because what we are doing is not working.

+1

[indeedproceed]

I used to have a very similar conversion with my wife about 'at some point you need to let people make their own choices and cut them off'. It seems so logical. But there are pieces missing.

Abusers typically have some traits in common. They're almost always a gifted manipulator. They take, they give, they spin the women around. They frequently methodically eliminate a woman's support structure, cutting them off from friends, family, so that their whole world revolves around the abuser. They're also frequently very charismatic, they're likable when they need to be, the women don't stay with them because they're stupid.

Battered women's syndrome has been thrown around a few times, and I kind of hate the term, because it allows people who are talking about the topic in general to attribute a woman sustaining repeated abuse to some kind of short coming, like some kind of flaw within them allows this. Me personally, I honestly used to attribute it to stupidity. Because Id look at myself, or strong women in my life and think, 'there is no scenario where I/they would ever put up with that, and I don't see how a person with an ounce of sense would do it'. That is wrong, plain and simple.

For me, and Im not a definitive authority by any means, I see it much more in common with the relationship between a cult leader and a follower. The cult systemically isolates the follower, tying everything in their life to the cult. It becomes so extreme that 'just leaving' is about as feasible as 'just climbing mount Everest'. It seems like an impossible and overwhelming task. Other things factor in; codependency, depression, fear that by attempting to leave that will be the thing that pushes the abuser over the edge.

And that's for the women that can recognize leaving is an option. The thought that 'at some point you have to cut them loose, show some tough love' is very out of touch with the actual problem to me. It can be true, if by keeping the woman in support services like safe houses, counseling, etc, you're putting other people in danger because the woman won't stop contact with the abuser, but those are outliers. It can take a woman years to work up to the notion that they even CAN leave, and years to actually act on it, and it's not because of any other shortcoming other than that they're human.