LOL Stephen Curry

[GetLucky]

we can agree to disagree, there are a lot of high volume scorers in the league.

Beat LA saying he is on par with James is like saying Ray Allen is on par with James just because he can fill em up.

Curry doesn't have the size or athleticism of Lebron, but his shooting ability, passing, and lightning-quick release make him extremely difficult to guard.  I know that Lebron has improved his shooting, but you can't play the dare-him-to-take-the-outside-shot defense against Curry, and you couldn't from day one, not even in college when he was wrecking teams on Davidson. I've seen too many Lebron games to know that he's not nearly as developed offensively as Pierce, Joe Johnson, Melo, Durant, George, or Kobe, and that's why I'm interested to see how his game ages.  Will he lose a lot of points because his athleticsm falls off?  I really don't know, but I do know this - the guy still doesn't even have a post game, let alone a midrange one.  That's what I mean.

I'd be interested to see what you mean by 'developed offensively' that context.

Well, I've never heard any commentator every talk about LeBron's "footwork" or anything else related to those little tricks and skills that let you get an advantage over your defender.  Now, Bron is a very good passer and has developed a good outside shot but it still seems like a lot of his game is built on a foundation of being such an awesome combination of size and speed.

I mean, LeBron's post-game is far behind the mid-post stuff Carmello's had in his arsenal for years.

Mike

That's exactly my point.  Look, the guy is a great passer and a freak of an athlete, but his physical gifts seem to get him many more of his points than just pure skill.  He also can't play off the ball or move without it (not that I've seen, anyway), come off screens for jumpers, or beat you one-on-one with his fundamentals in regards to footwork, etc.  That's all I'm saying.

Also, the guy who said that Lebron is a better offensive rebounder than Curry made me laugh, because 1).  uh, he should be and 2).  are you sure about that, haha?  Lebron is a sub-par rebounder for a guy of his size and strength, imo.

You are making a lot of leaps there, Beat LA. Not all of which I agree with.

I do think that people (rightly) marvel at LeBron's athletic prowess, and I don't think that he's one of the prototypical Jordan-style scorers, ala Kobe, Durant, Carmelo, etc. In fact, I'd argue that part of what made his maturation as a player so evident in his play between Miami and Cleveland 1.0 was that he realized he didn't have to be one of those beat you off the dribble wings in the 90's -early '00's style, and instead embraced the fact that he's a walking 3/4 mismatch.

I'm interested to see how LeBron's game will change after he lost all of the weight. Will he still be able to bully through guys at will and finish through contact at an elite level? This season is where all of the LeBron detractors will be proven right or wrong as to the "LeBron isn't super skilled, he's just an unnatural combination of big, fast, and coordinated" argument. Once the distinctive strength advantage is made less of a factor, will LeBron still dominate as easily? Will his post play still be effective? Will we even see him in the post that much? I'm interested to find out, because the recent pictures remind me of his Cleveland days and makes me wonder if his playing style will revert to that too.

I'm not saying that he isn't skilled.  Lebron is a great passer, defender, finisher, and a supreme athlete, but I do think that he lacks in other areas where you'd think he would have improved substantially by this, his 12th season, like post play, rebounding, shooting, and playing off the ball.  Spoiler alert - we won't see him in the post that much.  We never have, so it's hard to say how effective he really is inside.  After working with Hakeem, he showed a fadeaway and an old-time hook shot against us in a game that had me saying, "uh oh," but then he stopped after I want to say 2-3 such shots.  It just doesn't make sense to me.

Who knows - perhaps the loss of weight will allow him to jump even higher and be even quicker and faster   Great (sarcasm).

I get what you mean; I tend to agree with you that LeBron's athleticism allows him to get away with less than elite skills in certain facets of the game. My comments were pointed more towards the people who take what you're saying to the extreme. Although, I do have to say LeBron's jumper has gotten a lot better, and his rebounding and post play are more than adequate for his position. I think just the threat that he could now post up better than ever affected how teams game planned for Miami. Should they have taken advantage of and developed it more? Probably.

[SHAQATTACK]

Unfortunately LBJ is still top dog in he NBA ...sooooooo ....

There's James ...distant second of Durant .......then the next bunch of top 18 players which Curry is a part of.

He is a scoring machine like old Ray Allen.......Curry doesn't dominate the court from end to end or effect every play like James can.

Curry can take a team to playoffs., maybe contend maybe noy  ....Put LeBron on most any team and they are contenders

[Csfan1984]

I like that he believes in himself enough to make the statement.  But no one should take it seriously.

[indeedproceed]

I like that he believes in himself enough to make the statement.  But no one should take it seriously.

Well, that pretty much sums up this entire thing.

[AngryAndIrritable]

As much as I dislike LeBron, not sure why everyone is picking on him for alleged lack of rebounding prowess. Offensively he's likely to be taking a shot which doesn't usually translate into an offensive rebound. He is either going to take a 3 or midrange jumper which doesn't give him much of a chance of an offensive board, or he is heading to the rim with such momentum that he simply isn't going to be able to stop on a sixpence to get him in position for the rebound in the event of a miss.

Defensively, he would be looking to be on the fast break so again unlikely to be one hundred percent focused on a rebound.

[Ogaju]

absolutely... you need Bron for more things than hustling for rebounds.

[Snakehead]

He's a great shooter, so he's already ahead of James by leaps and bounds.  Yeah, I'd buy that.  Next.  I'm not being sarcastic, btw, nor am I trolling.

I know this is the second post and this has gone further, but a good reminder of how people think about offense and why Rondo is hated/undervalued by so many.

Shaq was one of the best offensive players of all time and literally can't shoot a jump shot.

[mgent]

Not that long ago we had Pierce saying he was the best player in the world for winning the championship.

This is exactly what I was thinking of. I just like it. I don't for a second think that Curry's a better offensive player. Especially if Lebron expended as little energy as Curry on d. But I kind of think every top 15 player should always say they're the best player in the league. Curry should have gone further. Where's his confidence at?

The mere fact that this thread has been a discussion at all means it wasn't a laughable thing to say. Even if its clearly untrue.

Exactly, there's tons of diversity between the games of the top 15 players.  And whichever skill they are best at is going to be what they consider to be the most important skill to have.  Carmelo probably think the best player in the league is the one most capable of scoring when they isolate 5 feet from the basket.  Chris Paul probably thinks the best player in the league is the best pick and roll player.  Curry just happens to think the best player in the league is the one most capable of pulling up off the dribble, any place, any time, no matter how off balance, and putting the ball in the basket.  He probably feels passing and the ability to guard players of any size aren't as important, and a complete waste in a game of 1 on 1 or horse.

[Celtics4ever]

Shaq was one of the best offensive players of all time and literally can't shoot a jump shot.

He was so great the league made charging legal so he would dominate with the no charge circle.

[Snakehead]

Shaq was one of the best offensive players of all time and literally can't shoot a jump shot.

He was so great the league made charging legal so he would dominate with the no charge circle.

I haven't seen anyone like him since the circle was there.  So I guess he's the only one that uses it?

[Celtics4ever]

I haven't seen anyone like him since the circle was there.  So I guess he's the only one that uses it?

No one else has had that kind of power down low today.  Shaq is as close as many could ever see akin to Wilt's physical dominance.   The league really does not need it anymore because they do not need to hide Shaq's lack of range anymore and no more can simple bull dunk with guys hanging on them.  Not Howard, nor Cousins, Shaq was a monster of the midway.  The league is not promoting any down low bigs.   Right now their guy is LeBron and Durant, who is a jump shooter.

I think the most under rated aspect of Shaq's game was his passing.  As for offense, there are probably people at this board who could him at horse.   All they need do is hit several free throws and he would gone.

[Beat LA]

we can agree to disagree, there are a lot of high volume scorers in the league.

Beat LA saying he is on par with James is like saying Ray Allen is on par with James just because he can fill em up.

Curry doesn't have the size or athleticism of Lebron, but his shooting ability, passing, and lightning-quick release make him extremely difficult to guard.  I know that Lebron has improved his shooting, but you can't play the dare-him-to-take-the-outside-shot defense against Curry, and you couldn't from day one, not even in college when he was wrecking teams on Davidson. I've seen too many Lebron games to know that he's not nearly as developed offensively as Pierce, Joe Johnson, Melo, Durant, George, or Kobe, and that's why I'm interested to see how his game ages.  Will he lose a lot of points because his athleticsm falls off?  I really don't know, but I do know this - the guy still doesn't even have a post game, let alone a midrange one.  That's what I mean.

I'd be interested to see what you mean by 'developed offensively' that context.

Well, I've never heard any commentator every talk about LeBron's "footwork" or anything else related to those little tricks and skills that let you get an advantage over your defender.  Now, Bron is a very good passer and has developed a good outside shot but it still seems like a lot of his game is built on a foundation of being such an awesome combination of size and speed.

I mean, LeBron's post-game is far behind the mid-post stuff Carmello's had in his arsenal for years.

Mike

That's exactly my point.  Look, the guy is a great passer and a freak of an athlete, but his physical gifts seem to get him many more of his points than just pure skill.  He also can't play off the ball or move without it (not that I've seen, anyway), come off screens for jumpers, or beat you one-on-one with his fundamentals in regards to footwork, etc.  That's all I'm saying.

Also, the guy who said that Lebron is a better offensive rebounder than Curry made me laugh, because 1).  uh, he should be and 2).  are you sure about that, haha?  Lebron is a sub-par rebounder for a guy of his size and strength, imo.

You are making a lot of leaps there, Beat LA. Not all of which I agree with.

I do think that people (rightly) marvel at LeBron's athletic prowess, and I don't think that he's one of the prototypical Jordan-style scorers, ala Kobe, Durant, Carmelo, etc. In fact, I'd argue that part of what made his maturation as a player so evident in his play between Miami and Cleveland 1.0 was that he realized he didn't have to be one of those beat you off the dribble wings in the 90's -early '00's style, and instead embraced the fact that he's a walking 3/4 mismatch.

I'm interested to see how LeBron's game will change after he lost all of the weight. Will he still be able to bully through guys at will and finish through contact at an elite level? This season is where all of the LeBron detractors will be proven right or wrong as to the "LeBron isn't super skilled, he's just an unnatural combination of big, fast, and coordinated" argument. Once the distinctive strength advantage is made less of a factor, will LeBron still dominate as easily? Will his post play still be effective? Will we even see him in the post that much? I'm interested to find out, because the recent pictures remind me of his Cleveland days and makes me wonder if his playing style will revert to that too.

I'm not saying that he isn't skilled.  Lebron is a great passer, defender, finisher, and a supreme athlete, but I do think that he lacks in other areas where you'd think he would have improved substantially by this, his 12th season, like post play, rebounding, shooting, and playing off the ball.  Spoiler alert - we won't see him in the post that much.  We never have, so it's hard to say how effective he really is inside.  After working with Hakeem, he showed a fadeaway and an old-time hook shot against us in a game that had me saying, "uh oh," but then he stopped after I want to say 2-3 such shots.  It just doesn't make sense to me.

Who knows - perhaps the loss of weight will allow him to jump even higher and be even quicker and faster   Great (sarcasm).

I get what you mean; I tend to agree with you that LeBron's athleticism allows him to get away with less than elite skills in certain facets of the game. My comments were pointed more towards the people who take what you're saying to the extreme. Although, I do have to say LeBron's jumper has gotten a lot better, and his rebounding and post play are more than adequate for his position. I think just the threat that he could now post up better than ever affected how teams game planned for Miami. Should they have taken advantage of and developed it more? Probably.

After the 2013 Finals, I actually thought that his shooting had somehow regressed but this past year I would have to agree with you - he's much better from the outside.  Maybe his extreme bricklaying made this year's shooting look a lot better I don't know lol, but his post play may only be on par with his sf peers because almost no one plays inside from the 3 position anymore.  I also didn't see a change in approach from the teams facing Miami in regards to his post play, but again, that's probably because HE NEVER UTILIZES IT lol

[Beat LA]

He's a great shooter, so he's already ahead of James by leaps and bounds.  Yeah, I'd buy that.  Next.  I'm not being sarcastic, btw, nor am I trolling.

I know this is the second post and this has gone further, but a good reminder of how people think about offense and why Rondo is hated/undervalued by so many.

Shaq was one of the best offensive players of all time and literally can't shoot a jump shot.

It's interesting that you should bring up Shaq, because, and I may be totally off here, but Lebron is like the Shaq of small forwards.  Think about it, we've never seen anyone like him at that position.  In many ways, Shaq kind of provides a possible answer to what could happen to Lebron as he ages in terms of effectiveness. 

At his peak, Shaq was unguardable due to his athletic ability and skills (I always loved his passing, too), but, and correct me if I'm wrong here, as he left his prime, you began to see the holes in his game that were not so apparent when he was dunking on everyone.  In his heyday, you could never play behind Shaq, but by that 2010 series, I wondered why Perk would even bother fronting him, because when you played behind him by that stage of his career and forced him to his once-automatic jump hook, he missed a lot of them.  Even when he was in Boston, he was missing so many of his former 'pet shots.'  He also never had a left hand or that many post moves, but he did have a good ones - it's just that his offensive arsenal wasn't like Hakeem's, McHale's, or Kareem's.  Let's see, jump hook aside, he had that Parish spin to the baseline down pat, the drop step, and his turnaround jump hook with his right hand that should have been blocked a lot more, but wasn't because of his size.  He was definitely a huge beneficiary of the triangle, because he got a ton of baskets simply because the other team would front him, so when they changed the passing angle all he had to do was lay it up or dunk it. 

Now, in Shaq's defense, he never needed a jump shot.  Why would he?  He's a traditional back-to-the-basket center who always plays inside.  Taking an outside shout would not only be a waste of his talents, but would also allow the defense to rest. 

[cb8883]

Curry is nowhere near LeBron who is already the GOAT in my opinion. Not a knock on anyone but it's an observation.