LOL Stephen Curry

[D.o.s.]

we can agree to disagree, there are a lot of high volume scorers in the league.

Beat LA saying he is on par with James is like saying Ray Allen is on par with James just because he can fill em up.

Curry doesn't have the size or athleticism of Lebron, but his shooting ability, passing, and lightning-quick release make him extremely difficult to guard.  I know that Lebron has improved his shooting, but you can't play the dare-him-to-take-the-outside-shot defense against Curry, and you couldn't from day one, not even in college when he was wrecking teams on Davidson. I've seen too many Lebron games to know that he's not nearly as developed offensively as Pierce, Joe Johnson, Melo, Durant, George, or Kobe, and that's why I'm interested to see how his game ages.  Will he lose a lot of points because his athleticsm falls off?  I really don't know, but I do know this - the guy still doesn't even have a post game, let alone a midrange one.  That's what I mean.

I'd be interested to see what you mean by 'developed offensively' that context.

Well, I've never heard any commentator every talk about LeBron's "footwork" or anything else related to those little tricks and skills that let you get an advantage over your defender.  Now, Bron is a very good passer and has developed a good outside shot but it still seems like a lot of his game is built on a foundation of being such an awesome combination of size and speed.

I mean, LeBron's post-game is far behind the mid-post stuff Carmello's had in his arsenal for years.

Mike

That's exactly my point.  Look, the guy is a great passer and a freak of an athlete, but his physical gifts seem to get him many more of his points than just pure skill.  He also can't play off the ball or move without it (not that I've seen, anyway), come off screens for jumpers, or beat you one-on-one with his fundamentals in regards to footwork, etc.  That's all I'm saying.

Also, the guy who said that Lebron is a better offensive rebounder than Curry made me laugh, because 1).  uh, he should be and 2).  are you sure about that, haha?  Lebron is a sub-par rebounder for a guy of his size and strength, imo.

You are making a lot of leaps there, Beat LA. Not all of which I agree with.

I do think that people (rightly) marvel at LeBron's athletic prowess, and I don't think that he's one of the prototypical Jordan-style scorers, ala Kobe, Durant, Carmelo, etc. In fact, I'd argue that part of what made his maturation as a player so evident in his play between Miami and Cleveland 1.0 was that he realized he didn't have to be one of those beat you off the dribble wings in the 90's -early '00's style, and instead embraced the fact that he's a walking 3/4 mismatch.

If you say he doesn't have a post move because, perhaps, he's not the best Dream Shaker in the league right now, I think that you'd be right, but you'd also be misguided.

[CapnDunks]

Not that long ago we had Pierce saying he was the best player in the world for winning the championship.

This is exactly what I was thinking of. I just like it. I don't for a second think that Curry's a better offensive player. Especially if Lebron expended as little energy as Curry on d. But I kind of think every top 15 player should always say they're the best player in the league. Curry should have gone further. Where's his confidence at?

The mere fact that this thread has been a discussion at all means it wasn't a laughable thing to say. Even if its clearly untrue.

[Beat LA]

we can agree to disagree, there are a lot of high volume scorers in the league.

Beat LA saying he is on par with James is like saying Ray Allen is on par with James just because he can fill em up.

Curry doesn't have the size or athleticism of Lebron, but his shooting ability, passing, and lightning-quick release make him extremely difficult to guard.  I know that Lebron has improved his shooting, but you can't play the dare-him-to-take-the-outside-shot defense against Curry, and you couldn't from day one, not even in college when he was wrecking teams on Davidson. I've seen too many Lebron games to know that he's not nearly as developed offensively as Pierce, Joe Johnson, Melo, Durant, George, or Kobe, and that's why I'm interested to see how his game ages.  Will he lose a lot of points because his athleticsm falls off?  I really don't know, but I do know this - the guy still doesn't even have a post game, let alone a midrange one.  That's what I mean.

I'd be interested to see what you mean by 'developed offensively' that context.

Well, I've never heard any commentator every talk about LeBron's "footwork" or anything else related to those little tricks and skills that let you get an advantage over your defender.  Now, Bron is a very good passer and has developed a good outside shot but it still seems like a lot of his game is built on a foundation of being such an awesome combination of size and speed.

I mean, LeBron's post-game is far behind the mid-post stuff Carmello's had in his arsenal for years.

Mike

That's exactly my point.  Look, the guy is a great passer and a freak of an athlete, but his physical gifts seem to get him many more of his points than just pure skill.  He also can't play off the ball or move without it (not that I've seen, anyway), come off screens for jumpers, or beat you one-on-one with his fundamentals in regards to footwork, etc.  That's all I'm saying.

Also, the guy who said that Lebron is a better offensive rebounder than Curry made me laugh, because 1).  uh, he should be and 2).  are you sure about that, haha?  Lebron is a sub-par rebounder for a guy of his size and strength, imo.

You are making a lot of leaps there, Beat LA. Not all of which I agree with.

I do think that people (rightly) marvel at LeBron's athletic prowess, and I don't think that he's one of the prototypical Jordan-style scorers, ala Kobe, Durant, Carmelo, etc. In fact, I'd argue that part of what made his maturation as a player so evident in his play between Miami and Cleveland 1.0 was that he realized he didn't have to be one of those beat you off the dribble wings in the 90's -early '00's style, and instead embraced the fact that he's a walking 3/4 mismatch.

If you say he doesn't have a post move because, perhaps, he's not the best Dream Shaker in the league right now, I think that you'd be right, but you'd also be misguided.

There's much more to post play than the Dream Shake, but he doesn't use any of the most basic of post moves, either.  It's extremely rare to see in in the post in the first place

[Beat LA]

Not that long ago we had Pierce saying he was the best player in the world for winning the championship.

This is exactly what I was thinking of. I just like it. I don't for a second think that Curry's a better offensive player. Especially if Lebron expended as little energy as Curry on d. But I kind of think every top 15 player should always say they're the best player in the league. Curry should have gone further. Where's his confidence at?

The mere fact that this thread has been a discussion at all means it wasn't a laughable thing to say. Even if its clearly untrue.

Yeah, he said that after winning the Finals MVP award, so I suppose that you could make the argument that he was the best player in the world at that time, although it would be a fairly weak one at that, haha, and I love Pierce.  Either way, it was a dumb thing to say.

[D.o.s.]

If you can't say you're the best after winning the "Holy Crap You're The Best Player Award"....

[Ogaju]

Bottom line is if you won the toss in a pick up game you would pick LeBron before you pick Curry, and you would not be doing this because of defense.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Bottom line is if you won the toss in a pick up game you would pick LeBron before you pick Curry, and you would not be doing this because of defense.

If we are playing Horse I would take Curry all day... he is the better shooter. If I had to have a shot to win the game I would probably pick Curry too. I would pick LeBron in a pickup game because of the "other end" of the court though.

[GetLucky]

we can agree to disagree, there are a lot of high volume scorers in the league.

Beat LA saying he is on par with James is like saying Ray Allen is on par with James just because he can fill em up.

Curry doesn't have the size or athleticism of Lebron, but his shooting ability, passing, and lightning-quick release make him extremely difficult to guard.  I know that Lebron has improved his shooting, but you can't play the dare-him-to-take-the-outside-shot defense against Curry, and you couldn't from day one, not even in college when he was wrecking teams on Davidson. I've seen too many Lebron games to know that he's not nearly as developed offensively as Pierce, Joe Johnson, Melo, Durant, George, or Kobe, and that's why I'm interested to see how his game ages.  Will he lose a lot of points because his athleticsm falls off?  I really don't know, but I do know this - the guy still doesn't even have a post game, let alone a midrange one.  That's what I mean.

I'd be interested to see what you mean by 'developed offensively' that context.

Well, I've never heard any commentator every talk about LeBron's "footwork" or anything else related to those little tricks and skills that let you get an advantage over your defender.  Now, Bron is a very good passer and has developed a good outside shot but it still seems like a lot of his game is built on a foundation of being such an awesome combination of size and speed.

I mean, LeBron's post-game is far behind the mid-post stuff Carmello's had in his arsenal for years.

Mike

That's exactly my point.  Look, the guy is a great passer and a freak of an athlete, but his physical gifts seem to get him many more of his points than just pure skill.  He also can't play off the ball or move without it (not that I've seen, anyway), come off screens for jumpers, or beat you one-on-one with his fundamentals in regards to footwork, etc.  That's all I'm saying.

Also, the guy who said that Lebron is a better offensive rebounder than Curry made me laugh, because 1).  uh, he should be and 2).  are you sure about that, haha?  Lebron is a sub-par rebounder for a guy of his size and strength, imo.

You are making a lot of leaps there, Beat LA. Not all of which I agree with.

I do think that people (rightly) marvel at LeBron's athletic prowess, and I don't think that he's one of the prototypical Jordan-style scorers, ala Kobe, Durant, Carmelo, etc. In fact, I'd argue that part of what made his maturation as a player so evident in his play between Miami and Cleveland 1.0 was that he realized he didn't have to be one of those beat you off the dribble wings in the 90's -early '00's style, and instead embraced the fact that he's a walking 3/4 mismatch.

I'm interested to see how LeBron's game will change after he lost all of the weight. Will he still be able to bully through guys at will and finish through contact at an elite level? This season is where all of the LeBron detractors will be proven right or wrong as to the "LeBron isn't super skilled, he's just an unnatural combination of big, fast, and coordinated" argument. Once the distinctive strength advantage is made less of a factor, will LeBron still dominate as easily? Will his post play still be effective? Will we even see him in the post that much? I'm interested to find out, because the recent pictures remind me of his Cleveland days and makes me wonder if his playing style will revert to that too.

[D.o.s.]

I think that's part of it -- he doesn't need to bang down low with Kevin Love at the 4, and they need him mobile enough to consistently guard the opponent's best ball handler/hide Kyrie on a relative non-threat.

[Beat LA]

we can agree to disagree, there are a lot of high volume scorers in the league.

Beat LA saying he is on par with James is like saying Ray Allen is on par with James just because he can fill em up.

Curry doesn't have the size or athleticism of Lebron, but his shooting ability, passing, and lightning-quick release make him extremely difficult to guard.  I know that Lebron has improved his shooting, but you can't play the dare-him-to-take-the-outside-shot defense against Curry, and you couldn't from day one, not even in college when he was wrecking teams on Davidson. I've seen too many Lebron games to know that he's not nearly as developed offensively as Pierce, Joe Johnson, Melo, Durant, George, or Kobe, and that's why I'm interested to see how his game ages.  Will he lose a lot of points because his athleticsm falls off?  I really don't know, but I do know this - the guy still doesn't even have a post game, let alone a midrange one.  That's what I mean.

I'd be interested to see what you mean by 'developed offensively' that context.

Well, I've never heard any commentator every talk about LeBron's "footwork" or anything else related to those little tricks and skills that let you get an advantage over your defender.  Now, Bron is a very good passer and has developed a good outside shot but it still seems like a lot of his game is built on a foundation of being such an awesome combination of size and speed.

I mean, LeBron's post-game is far behind the mid-post stuff Carmello's had in his arsenal for years.

Mike

That's exactly my point.  Look, the guy is a great passer and a freak of an athlete, but his physical gifts seem to get him many more of his points than just pure skill.  He also can't play off the ball or move without it (not that I've seen, anyway), come off screens for jumpers, or beat you one-on-one with his fundamentals in regards to footwork, etc.  That's all I'm saying.

Also, the guy who said that Lebron is a better offensive rebounder than Curry made me laugh, because 1).  uh, he should be and 2).  are you sure about that, haha?  Lebron is a sub-par rebounder for a guy of his size and strength, imo.

You are making a lot of leaps there, Beat LA. Not all of which I agree with.

I do think that people (rightly) marvel at LeBron's athletic prowess, and I don't think that he's one of the prototypical Jordan-style scorers, ala Kobe, Durant, Carmelo, etc. In fact, I'd argue that part of what made his maturation as a player so evident in his play between Miami and Cleveland 1.0 was that he realized he didn't have to be one of those beat you off the dribble wings in the 90's -early '00's style, and instead embraced the fact that he's a walking 3/4 mismatch.

I'm interested to see how LeBron's game will change after he lost all of the weight. Will he still be able to bully through guys at will and finish through contact at an elite level? This season is where all of the LeBron detractors will be proven right or wrong as to the "LeBron isn't super skilled, he's just an unnatural combination of big, fast, and coordinated" argument. Once the distinctive strength advantage is made less of a factor, will LeBron still dominate as easily? Will his post play still be effective? Will we even see him in the post that much? I'm interested to find out, because the recent pictures remind me of his Cleveland days and makes me wonder if his playing style will revert to that too.

I'm not saying that he isn't skilled.  Lebron is a great passer, defender, finisher, and a supreme athlete, but I do think that he lacks in other areas where you'd think he would have improved substantially by this, his 12th season, like post play, rebounding, shooting, and playing off the ball.  Spoiler alert - we won't see him in the post that much.  We never have, so it's hard to say how effective he really is inside.  After working with Hakeem, he showed a fadeaway and an old-time hook shot against us in a game that had me saying, "uh oh," but then he stopped after I want to say 2-3 such shots.  It just doesn't make sense to me.

Who knows - perhaps the loss of weight will allow him to jump even higher and be even quicker and faster   Great (sarcasm).

[D.o.s.]

See, this is where I don't follow you, James has spent more and more time in the post each season since he left Cleveland, and he's taken fewer and fewer jumpers out of posting up, per Synergy. So that fadeaway you're talking about -- he's changed that out for going to the basket, or passing out of the post, both of which are smarter basketball plays than shooting a fadeaway.

[LB3533]

Mr. Curry may be better skilled in some basketabll areas on the offense side of the ball.

Lebron may not have the best form or the higher percentages from three or the FT line, but what Lebron does have, is more experience & knowledge of opposing players, opposing teams and the most important element....Lebron possesses more of the opposing teams' defensive attention.

Lebron is very unique enigma, because physically, he has the stature/physique of almost near/like a Karl Malone, he has the driving and finishing ability near/like Jordan, the passing ability near/like Magic and now Lebron has improved his long range shooting ability. If Lebron can greatly improve his FT shooting he could have near Bird like shooting qualities.

I strongly feel that coaching staffs don't lay awake up at night planning/dreading to stop/gameplan for Curry......like they do or have done for Lebron.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I DON'T LIKE LEBRON AT ALL but let's stop tripping, the man is a beast on both sides of the ball. Is he better than Curry offensively? I don't know, I don't watch enough of either to have a valid opinion but I do know I think Curry could become the best shooter ever in his prime. Offense isn't only about shooting though so I can't say whether he is better than LeBron as I said.

[Ogaju]

of course he is better than Curry on offense. He is a beast whereas Curry is a situational player.

[gift]

Five Thirty Eight article on this topic: http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/stephen-curry-isnt-better-than-lebron-on-offense-but-hes-as-close-as-anybody/