Author Topic: It's Been A Lame Offseason.  (Read 22185 times)

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Re: It's Been A Lame Offseason.
« Reply #90 on: August 07, 2014, 10:56:31 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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I never liked Melo, I do not like his attitude, his D and I for one am glad we didn't get him.  I think Love is productive but not a leader and he plays bad D too.  Neither of these guys have been able to generate meaningful wins for their teams in the post season.

Ditto, TP.

Re: It's Been A Lame Offseason.
« Reply #91 on: August 07, 2014, 11:29:02 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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It was a quiet off season, and one of best off seasons i can think of in a long time.

1. Draft Marcus smart
2. Draft James young

Use a salary exception to land:

3. Another first round pick
4. Tyler Zeller at a low cost look
5. Acquired Thornton a scorer and shooter for a 1 year look deal

6. Resigned Avery Bradley at market value

7. Signed Evan Turner for a low cost, high upside look.

This is probably the second or third best offseason for the Celtics in the last 30 years.

Number 1: arrival of KG and Ray Allen
Number 2: drafting of Pierce
Number 4: drafting of Rondo

didn't Pitino leave in an offseason? lol

Re: It's Been A Lame Offseason.
« Reply #92 on: August 07, 2014, 11:40:59 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Had a chance to do the draft right .......we sucked and deserved to have a top three ......and Danny dropped the ball....

Lady Luck screwed us by landing a one in million handout to Cleveland.

Still stuck with Green, Bass and Wallace ...nobody wants em

One of the worst off seasons in a long time.

The NBA is really awful in the East ...one player control the outcome.

He'll trade Rondo with Wallace attached at the ankle

Re: It's Been A Lame Offseason.
« Reply #93 on: August 08, 2014, 05:00:00 AM »

Offline aporel#18

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Negatrons vs Optimist Primes revisited?  ;D

Offseason isn't over yet, so I'm still hoping for DA to make a couple of moves (see here) to complete a great offseason. So far, it's been very good.

Drafted best available player at both slots.
Got great value for a TPE, without sacrificing financial flexibility in the 2015 offseason.
Signed Evan Turner for a decent contract, which added to picking Smart, makes Lil Phil expendable.

But offseason isn't the end of the world, as DA has enough expiring money + young players + picks to get a real beast at the trade deadline. Marc Gasol is my guy, and if he wants to taste Free Agency, Chris Wallace (he's still manning the ship in Memphis, right?) could try to get things done in February rather than waiting for an offseason sign & trade where the return will be worse. Bass+Anthony+Thornton (or Perk+Thornton eventually)+Zeller+3 first rounders could be enough for Memphis. Chris Wallace owes the Cs something, after all.

Rondo+Green+Marc Gasol is a real Big Three. You put Marc Gasol in the high post, with Sully or Kelly spreading the floor and that opens doors and windows for Rondo and Green to thrive on offense. And they would be a great defensive team:

Rondo/Smart/Turner
Bradley/Turner/Young
Green/Wallace/(Shabazz)*
Sully/Kelly/(Bennett)*
Marc Gasol/Kelly/Fav

*if the Bizarre Love Triangle worked

Instant ECF contenders, IMO :)

Rondo+Melo+Love? not only unrealistic, but terrible fit. Love and Melo are great on offense, but not so good on defense. I'd like Melo as an offensive upgrade over Green if we have 4 defensive studs on our lineup, but that wouldn't be the case with Love.

Glad the Cavs got Love and I hope they overpay him and Kyrie so LeBroid bolts in a couple of years when he doesn't "get enough help" from them. If everybody's healthy, the Bulls are better than Cleveland, but Varejao/Kyrie/Love are not iron men, and LBJ is due for some physical problems at some point. We'll see.

Re: It's Been A Lame Offseason.
« Reply #94 on: August 08, 2014, 08:52:45 AM »

Offline obnoxiousmime

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Let's face it, the Celtics are in a tough place right now. There aren't any moves to be made that would bring a star over and there might not be before Rondo's deal is up. Even more problematic is the fact that they have a lot of young talent but none of them look to be superstar-caliber. They have a lot of picks, but none in the immediate future besides their own that could be low lottery level. And they have little flexibility cap-wise until next offseason, though they would lose that if they re-sign Rondo to a max deal.

They need a star to magically become available or Rondo to suddenly be amenable to signing an extension with a team that wants to deal for him. Both scenarios are unlikely.

If they deal Rondo for peanuts or if he leaves, they need to hope the draft yields their next superstar. It would have been nice if that player were already on the roster (if they had gotten lucky in previous drafts with a late steal) but it didn't happen. That means their next best player is not in the league right now and will take 4-5 years from now to develop.

Ainge and management (moved by playoff revenue, no doubt) wanted to delay the rebuild and we're seeing the fallout from that now.

Re: It's Been A Lame Offseason.
« Reply #95 on: August 08, 2014, 10:12:02 AM »

Offline Rondo9

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Let's face it, the Celtics are in a tough place right now. There aren't any moves to be made that would bring a star over and there might not be before Rondo's deal is up. Even more problematic is the fact that they have a lot of young talent but none of them look to be superstar-caliber. They have a lot of picks, but none in the immediate future besides their own that could be low lottery level. And they have little flexibility cap-wise until next offseason, though they would lose that if they re-sign Rondo to a max deal.

They need a star to magically become available or Rondo to suddenly be amenable to signing an extension with a team that wants to deal for him. Both scenarios are unlikely.

If they deal Rondo for peanuts or if he leaves, they need to hope the draft yields their next superstar. It would have been nice if that player were already on the roster (if they had gotten lucky in previous drafts with a late steal) but it didn't happen. That means their next best player is not in the league right now and will take 4-5 years from now to develop.

Ainge and management (moved by playoff revenue, no doubt) wanted to delay the rebuild and we're seeing the fallout from that now.

The celtics are in a great position to either build around rondo or to let him go and go the sixers route an oppurtunity will come and the celtics will capatilize on it

Re: It's Been A Lame Offseason.
« Reply #96 on: August 08, 2014, 11:14:59 AM »

Offline moiso

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Let's face it, the Celtics are in a tough place right now. There aren't any moves to be made that would bring a star over and there might not be before Rondo's deal is up. Even more problematic is the fact that they have a lot of young talent but none of them look to be superstar-caliber. They have a lot of picks, but none in the immediate future besides their own that could be low lottery level. And they have little flexibility cap-wise until next offseason, though they would lose that if they re-sign Rondo to a max deal.

They need a star to magically become available or Rondo to suddenly be amenable to signing an extension with a team that wants to deal for him. Both scenarios are unlikely.

If they deal Rondo for peanuts or if he leaves, they need to hope the draft yields their next superstar. It would have been nice if that player were already on the roster (if they had gotten lucky in previous drafts with a late steal) but it didn't happen. That means their next best player is not in the league right now and will take 4-5 years from now to develop.

Ainge and management (moved by playoff revenue, no doubt) wanted to delay the rebuild and we're seeing the fallout from that now.
I think the rebuild happened at exactly the right time.  The last year of KG/Pierce was bad in hindsight, but Ainge probably didn't get the offer he was looking for until Brooklyn came knocking. 

And I also believe the rebuild has gone perfectly since those two were dealt (minus a bit of better lottery luck).  Ainge has been super patient and has gotten something out of nothing on a few deals.  He has not unloaded his vets for less than his perceived value of them.  He will have many chances to make deals this season if the right deals come along.  If not we are looking at tons of upcoming cap space.  I think the rebuild has been perfect so far.

Re: It's Been A Lame Offseason.
« Reply #97 on: August 08, 2014, 11:43:16 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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There's an argument to be made, correctly, in my view, that Ainge propped the window open as long as he could before going into the rebuild.

Compared to other title contenders, and for me the Pistons come to mind first, Ainge has done a solid job of maintaining our flexibility -- the team can be bad and play the lottery, or they can swing a trade to become a competitive franchise again. Options are important.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: It's Been A Lame Offseason.
« Reply #98 on: August 08, 2014, 12:11:57 PM »

Offline vinnie

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Kelly Olynyk will not be a 20-point per game scorer -- ever. End of discussion.

And how do you know that?

How many players average 20 points a year in the NBA? Very few. KO will not ever be one of them in my opinion...

Re: It's Been A Lame Offseason.
« Reply #99 on: August 08, 2014, 12:13:21 PM »

Offline vinnie

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Kelly Olynyk will not be a 20-point per game scorer -- ever. End of discussion.

And nobody is going to ask him to be.  He doesn't have to be for a team to win.

Having said that, I wouldn't say 'ever' when you're talking about this player.  He's not one to rest on his laurels.  He'll work, and work, and work.

So writing him off like you did with your statement is plain idiotic.  End of discussion.

Oh, OK.

Re: It's Been A Lame Offseason.
« Reply #100 on: August 08, 2014, 12:38:11 PM »

Offline obnoxiousmime

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Let's face it, the Celtics are in a tough place right now. There aren't any moves to be made that would bring a star over and there might not be before Rondo's deal is up. Even more problematic is the fact that they have a lot of young talent but none of them look to be superstar-caliber. They have a lot of picks, but none in the immediate future besides their own that could be low lottery level. And they have little flexibility cap-wise until next offseason, though they would lose that if they re-sign Rondo to a max deal.

They need a star to magically become available or Rondo to suddenly be amenable to signing an extension with a team that wants to deal for him. Both scenarios are unlikely.

If they deal Rondo for peanuts or if he leaves, they need to hope the draft yields their next superstar. It would have been nice if that player were already on the roster (if they had gotten lucky in previous drafts with a late steal) but it didn't happen. That means their next best player is not in the league right now and will take 4-5 years from now to develop.

Ainge and management (moved by playoff revenue, no doubt) wanted to delay the rebuild and we're seeing the fallout from that now.
I think the rebuild happened at exactly the right time.  The last year of KG/Pierce was bad in hindsight, but Ainge probably didn't get the offer he was looking for until Brooklyn came knocking. 

And I also believe the rebuild has gone perfectly since those two were dealt (minus a bit of better lottery luck).  Ainge has been super patient and has gotten something out of nothing on a few deals.  He has not unloaded his vets for less than his perceived value of them.  He will have many chances to make deals this season if the right deals come along.  If not we are looking at tons of upcoming cap space.  I think the rebuild has been perfect so far.

The rebuild came too late. That's why Brandon Bass' contract is still on the books. That's why Wallace is on the books for two more (the picks were a nice haul but they came with a price). We don't really know what other deals were on the table before for Pierce and Garnett, but I'd rather have something like say, DeAndre Jordan and Bledsoe on the roster now plus a pick than having multiple picks and Wallace's deal. Waiting for those Nets picks to come is fine if you're committed to a long rebuild. They're not so valuable if you're trying to make deals to win now because their value comes too far into the future and with too much uncertainty (nobody knows where the Nets will be those years).

The Celtics were not going to win a title that last year, or even the year before. Better to have realized that sooner rather than later, especially when you sign a bunch of guys to multiple years (Lee, Bass, Terry) in a futile, last-ditch effort. Nobody wanted to see Pierce and Garnett go and at the time, I really thought there was a chance Pierce would play in green his entire career. However, Ainge showed he was willing to deal them. If so, why not deal them earlier?

Re: It's Been A Lame Offseason.
« Reply #101 on: August 08, 2014, 12:48:42 PM »

Offline gpap

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Let's face it, the Celtics are in a tough place right now. There aren't any moves to be made that would bring a star over and there might not be before Rondo's deal is up. Even more problematic is the fact that they have a lot of young talent but none of them look to be superstar-caliber. They have a lot of picks, but none in the immediate future besides their own that could be low lottery level. And they have little flexibility cap-wise until next offseason, though they would lose that if they re-sign Rondo to a max deal.

They need a star to magically become available or Rondo to suddenly be amenable to signing an extension with a team that wants to deal for him. Both scenarios are unlikely.

If they deal Rondo for peanuts or if he leaves, they need to hope the draft yields their next superstar. It would have been nice if that player were already on the roster (if they had gotten lucky in previous drafts with a late steal) but it didn't happen. That means their next best player is not in the league right now and will take 4-5 years from now to develop.

Ainge and management (moved by playoff revenue, no doubt) wanted to delay the rebuild and we're seeing the fallout from that now.
I think the rebuild happened at exactly the right time.  The last year of KG/Pierce was bad in hindsight, but Ainge probably didn't get the offer he was looking for until Brooklyn came knocking. 

And I also believe the rebuild has gone perfectly since those two were dealt (minus a bit of better lottery luck).  Ainge has been super patient and has gotten something out of nothing on a few deals.  He has not unloaded his vets for less than his perceived value of them.  He will have many chances to make deals this season if the right deals come along.  If not we are looking at tons of upcoming cap space.  I think the rebuild has been perfect so far.

The rebuild came too late. That's why Brandon Bass' contract is still on the books. That's why Wallace is on the books for two more (the picks were a nice haul but they came with a price). We don't really know what other deals were on the table before for Pierce and Garnett, but I'd rather have something like say, DeAndre Jordan and Bledsoe on the roster now plus a pick than having multiple picks and Wallace's deal. Waiting for those Nets picks to come is fine if you're committed to a long rebuild. They're not so valuable if you're trying to make deals to win now because their value comes too far into the future and with too much uncertainty (nobody knows where the Nets will be those years).

The Celtics were not going to win a title that last year, or even the year before. Better to have realized that sooner rather than later, especially when you sign a bunch of guys to multiple years (Lee, Bass, Terry) in a futile, last-ditch effort. Nobody wanted to see Pierce and Garnett go and at the time, I really thought there was a chance Pierce would play in green his entire career. However, Ainge showed he was willing to deal them. If so, why not deal them earlier?

Yes it did and I totally agree.

Look, hindsight is always 20/20 and belive me, I didn't want to see us ever become sellers and start rebuilding (although I will admit, the final year of KG/Pierce did get kinda painful. We probably should've gotten swept by the Knicks in 2013.)

Plus, I think the job is always to make money and Ainge/Wyc didn't want to turn off ticket holders by dealing the 2 stars of the team while the 2008 run was still fresh in people's minds (including mine.)

BUT looking back, DA probably should've started the famous "rebuild" sooner than he did.

As for when he should've, that's a little harder to say.

You could make a case it should've started in 2010 after they lost to the Lakers in the finals because looking back, that truly was legitimately the Celts last real shot at winning another title.

You could also make a case it should've started after the 2011 season. Granted, maybe the Celts beat Miami that year if they hadn't dealt Perk and/or had a healthy Shaq (and healthy Rondo for that matter.) But after that season, it became emphatically clear the torch had been passed in the East from the Celts to Miami (more specifially, Lebron.) The problem however, with doing the rebuild that summer was everyone knew a lockout was coming so if DA tried to dangle Pierce, Ray and KG for trades, who knows if anybody would've agreed to a trade based on the uncertainty of the lockout and whether there was going to be a 2011/12 season.

Finally, the rebuild should've definitely began in 2012.
Yes, the Celts had a magical playoff run, but looking back it was as much about luck as anything else (remember Chicago lost Rose and Miami was without Bosh in games 1-4 vs the Celts which also made a huge difference.)

After Ray decided to leave the team (and take less money for Miami) it should've helped make things clear that it was time for Ainge to move on. He could've dealt Pierce then and NOT have resigned Bass and Jeff Green (along with picking up Courtney Lee and Jason Terry.)

The summer of 2012 was DEFINITELY the time to do it and DA began the rebuild one year too late.

Again, hindsight is always 20/20
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 01:02:39 PM by gpap »

Re: It's Been A Lame Offseason.
« Reply #102 on: August 08, 2014, 12:53:33 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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The rebuild was forced to go a year earlier because of Rondo's injury.  If Rondo never gets injured, I think there is a good chance that Ainge finds a way to bring in Paul Millsap or someone of similar caliber.  Even with Rondo's injury, I think Ainge was exploring the idea of keeping Garnett/Pierce and still trying to get Millsap, but the Nets were an opportunity to get a ton of value back.  Maybe Sullinger's injury also hurt his value as an asset and made it harder to work a deal.
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Re: It's Been A Lame Offseason.
« Reply #103 on: August 08, 2014, 12:57:33 PM »

Offline gpap

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The rebuild was forced to go a year earlier because of Rondo's injury.  If Rondo never gets injured, I think there is a good chance that Ainge finds a way to bring in Paul Millsap or someone of similar caliber.  Even with Rondo's injury, I think Ainge was exploring the idea of keeping Garnett/Pierce and still trying to get Millsap, but the Nets were an opportunity to get a ton of value back.  Maybe Sullinger's injury also hurt his value as an asset and made it harder to work a deal.

That's also an interesting point too.

So then you could also pose the question, should Ainge have made that Brooklyn deal or acquired Millsap and another vet PG to back up Rondo (Mo Williams?) and made another run with KG and Pierce last year?

Also, if DA went this route, we probably still have Doc/KG/Pierce today. The question then becomes would we be better off with today with Doc/PP/KG than with Brad Stevens/Rondo and a bunch of so-so young players?

Maybe a "rebuild" could've also been avoided altogether

Re: It's Been A Lame Offseason.
« Reply #104 on: August 08, 2014, 01:10:38 PM »

Offline Rondo9

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Let's face it, the Celtics are in a tough place right now. There aren't any moves to be made that would bring a star over and there might not be before Rondo's deal is up. Even more problematic is the fact that they have a lot of young talent but none of them look to be superstar-caliber. They have a lot of picks, but none in the immediate future besides their own that could be low lottery level. And they have little flexibility cap-wise until next offseason, though they would lose that if they re-sign Rondo to a max deal.

They need a star to magically become available or Rondo to suddenly be amenable to signing an extension with a team that wants to deal for him. Both scenarios are unlikely.

If they deal Rondo for peanuts or if he leaves, they need to hope the draft yields their next superstar. It would have been nice if that player were already on the roster (if they had gotten lucky in previous drafts with a late steal) but it didn't happen. That means their next best player is not in the league right now and will take 4-5 years from now to develop.

Ainge and management (moved by playoff revenue, no doubt) wanted to delay the rebuild and we're seeing the fallout from that now.
I think the rebuild happened at exactly the right time.  The last year of KG/Pierce was bad in hindsight, but Ainge probably didn't get the offer he was looking for until Brooklyn came knocking. 

And I also believe the rebuild has gone perfectly since those two were dealt (minus a bit of better lottery luck).  Ainge has been super patient and has gotten something out of nothing on a few deals.  He has not unloaded his vets for less than his perceived value of them.  He will have many chances to make deals this season if the right deals come along.  If not we are looking at tons of upcoming cap space.  I think the rebuild has been perfect so far.

The rebuild came too late. That's why Brandon Bass' contract is still on the books. That's why Wallace is on the books for two more (the picks were a nice haul but they came with a price). We don't really know what other deals were on the table before for Pierce and Garnett, but I'd rather have something like say, DeAndre Jordan and Bledsoe on the roster now plus a pick than having multiple picks and Wallace's deal. Waiting for those Nets picks to come is fine if you're committed to a long rebuild. They're not so valuable if you're trying to make deals to win now because their value comes too far into the future and with too much uncertainty (nobody knows where the Nets will be those years).

The Celtics were not going to win a title that last year, or even the year before. Better to have realized that sooner rather than later, especially when you sign a bunch of guys to multiple years (Lee, Bass, Terry) in a futile, last-ditch effort. Nobody wanted to see Pierce and Garnett go and at the time, I really thought there was a chance Pierce would play in green his entire career. However, Ainge showed he was willing to deal them. If so, why not deal them earlier?
If bass could be traded right now the celtics would pull the trigger however Danny doesn't like the offers that he's been presented and pulled out Also Eric Bledsoe and deandre Jordan would be paid big money that would destroy Boston's flexibility I would rather have cap space and multiple draft picks than overpaid role players the rebuild came at an excellent time and the celtics are in a position to do anything