Author Topic: For those who dont want us to be an 8 seed...  (Read 8928 times)

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Re: For those who dont want us to be an 8 seed...
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2014, 12:20:18 AM »

Offline Timmio1990

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I definitely don't think we should go into the season planning to tank, see how the team is playing and the season is progressing after a couple of months and then decide which direction to take. If the team enters the season in straight out tank mode I think we will have trouble trying to convince Rondo to try and re-sign - he will turn 29 during the season and I can't imagine he would want to spend his best years playing on a lottery bound team surrounded by players with potential.

If a move becomes available to make us a more competitive team I'm all for it, I would even be open to trading Rondo if we were getting back a good deal.

The option for trading Rondo should only really be considered if we are terrible this year.

Re: For those who dont want us to be an 8 seed...
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2014, 12:25:01 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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Remember 2013? We were a 7th seed abd went up against the heavily favoured knicks and gave them a good run... That was fun wasnt it?? And we still got olynyk in the draft... Anything is possible so u may as well give the young guys some playoff experience and the vets a chance to showcase their talents and up their trade value...

We would have beaten that Knicks team with Rondo.  Even down 0-2, I still thought we could do it, seeing as we were better than the Knicks for most of the first 2 games.  We just couldn't finish them off because our rotation was screwed up due to injuries.  Losing Barbosa and Sullinger, in addition to Rondo, really hurt us.  Personally, I think that Doc made a huge mistake by starting Terry in game 3.  That backfired tremendously.  Man, a couple more free throws and we could have won game 6.  That was hilarious, watching the Knicks crumble in crunch time.  It wasn't even Melo who beat us, or JR Smith.  It was Felton, lol, who never did anything against Rondo, but had the series of his life against us, and, surprisingly, Avery Bradley, who just cannot play the point guard position.  Shumpert also made it tough on Pierce, especially because Paul's ball handling, imo, was always a bit sloppy, but I also thought that he was just missing a lot of his favorite shots, even when he was open, which wasn't too often, but I'm not taking anything away from Shumpert.  He was outstanding.  I'm not saying he was a bad dribbler, but I always thought that The Truth could have drastically improved in that department.

Here's something else to think about - what if we had taken Giannis instead of KO, kept Pierce and Garnett, traded Green and Terry for, I don't know, anybody, haha, and signed Greg Oden?  He would have been awesome behind KG, and that team could have surprised a lot of people, imo, even with Rondo coming back mid season.  Put Pierce on the 5-5-5 plan to keep him fresh, sign Barbosa, and see what happens.  The Greek Freak would have added the perfect dimension to our club, imho, and he would have learned so much from Pierce and Garnett.  I don't care who we'd have had to face in the playoffs, because with Indiana imploding and Miami just not being the same team, that postseason could have been even more interesting.  Plus, at the end of the year, both Pierce and Garnett's contracts would have come off the books, giving us financial flexibility, instead of having to be tied to the albatross of Gerald Wallace's contract.  Add to that Stevens' use of the trap and his other plays, like the one against Miami, and I really think that that team could have surprised a lot of people.  I just never would have traded Pierce and Garnett.  Even though they're older, you simply can't replace players like that.  Hey, maybe if we had traded Green and Terry to the Cavs, who wanted to make the playoffs, for their first round pick this year, we could have had the best of both worlds - keep the veterans and get a top 3 pick.  Haha yeah right.

Re: For those who dont want us to be an 8 seed...
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2014, 12:52:05 AM »

Offline GreenWarrior

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there's a good chance half if not all but 1 or 2 players currently on this roster will still be on this team when we're ready to seriously contend. we don't need to get these guys "playoff experience" for another team.

getting a high draft pick doesn't mean we actually have to use it and wait for some young guy to develop. we could use a high draft pick as an asset.

I don't care what we do. but this striving to be an 8 seed does have to go. i'd rather be really bad than just a 1st rnd. bounce. it'd be one thing if this was a team that's core was young and on the verge of breaking out but that's not these guys.

Re: For those who dont want us to be an 8 seed...
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2014, 01:05:43 AM »

Offline Aymanelgowainy

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2013 absolutely was NOT fun.  I sat through every regular season game hoping that the team would show signs of life and turn the ship around, but it never happened.  Getting destroyed by a mediocre Knicks team (they should have swept us honestly, and probably would have if Melo drained free throws near the end of game 4 like he usually does) was extremely frustrating. 

I was pro-tank last year because I knew how horrible we'd be.  It was year 1 of the rebuild.  We'll very likely be terrible again this year.  If we were a mediocre team with aging vets and few assets, then yeah I wouldn't be thrilled with sneaking into the playoffs only to get swept in the first round.  But for a young, growing team like ours, I'd like to see us improve gradually until we finally make a big trade to get us back into contention.  That said, I think it would be great if we made the playoffs this year.  Not rooting for a tank again unless we're absolutely terrible by mid-season and losing is clearly the best thing to do again.  And I'm confident we'll never get a top 5 pick... ever.
There we go.. Now this makes some sense.. Give it all u git the first half and if things r going downhill then might as well tank.. If not, GREAT!

Re: For those who dont want us to be an 8 seed...
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2014, 01:09:34 AM »

Offline Aymanelgowainy

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FOR THE LOVE OF GOD TANKING DOESNT MEAN CHAMPIONSHIPS!!!
Out of all the team in the playoffs only one team wins it.   SO PLAYOFFS DOES NOT MEAN CHAMPIONSHIPS EITHER just ask ATL.

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Every time we tank we get screwed over in the lottery.

Don't you think we are due?  A lot of times we have blown the picks too when players drafted belong dropped by us.

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We have enough assets and should have cap space to make some moves

WRONG, Danny tried and NO WANTED OUR ASSETS or PICKS!   Some guys here think Sully is an allstar already, I assume your one of them.   I think he is a nice player but flawed.   Ditto for Olynyk.  If Ainge could have done better he would have folks.   Now Wyc said they wanted fireworks and I did as well but no one bit on what we were offering.  As for our cap space this is not the year we have the space.

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but tanking isnt the answer for everything, or anything for that matter.

I never said it was bud.  I said "  I know tanking does not always work.".  Scroll up and see for yourself.  Ask the Hawks if they feel great making the playoffs and getting bounced every year?
We were also "due" in the lottery this year but howd that work out? And im sure the hawks feel better than the bucks right now... As for sully, im actually pretty low on him, but we still have a gazillion draft picks and Ainge couldve assembled something but opted to wait for next year when wed have more cap space to play with and perhaps a few more picks if we trade some more expirings at the deadline for draft picks...

Re: For those who dont want us to be an 8 seed...
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2014, 01:12:16 AM »

Offline Aymanelgowainy

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...but tanking isnt the answer for everything, or anything for that matter..

The Spurs have five world championships that beg to differ.  The Rockets two titles may have something to say about that as well.
Well we also tanked the same year as the spurs but howd that work out??? We had better odds at Duncan but noooo... So tanking isnt the answer, luck is..

Re: For those who dont want us to be an 8 seed...
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2014, 01:38:04 AM »

Offline LilRip

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Being an 8th seed can't be judged on absolute terms. IMO, it goes like this:

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the Good 8th Seed:
A team led by a young core with lots of time to grow together, and still brimming with untapped potential. The team will likely be a terror the following year with its young core building on the previous year's performance.

the Bad 8th Seed:
A team led by a group of vets in their prime who have pretty much maxed out. It's a messy collection of talent that's good enough to be better than most other young teams who haven't figured it out, but still not as good as the 5-7 other teams who made it in the Eastern playoffs.
--

As the team is currently constructed, if we make it to the playoffs, I think we'd likely fall in the latter category. We'll likely make it as an 8th seed largely on the backs of Rondo, Green, and even Bass (don't laugh). Our young guys (KO, Sully, Zeller, AB, & Smart) will definitely make significant contributions though, but not enough that you'd think they were ready to lead a team or be one of the top players of their position like Rondo. Hopefully Smart becomes something special though. The other four, I'm not counting on.

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Re: For those who dont want us to be an 8 seed...
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2014, 02:22:38 AM »

Offline freshinthehouse

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...but tanking isnt the answer for everything, or anything for that matter..

The Spurs have five world championships that beg to differ.  The Rockets two titles may have something to say about that as well.
Well we also tanked the same year as the spurs but howd that work out??? We had better odds at Duncan but noooo... So tanking isnt the answer, luck is..

We still ended up with the third pick in the draft.  I'd be thrilled if we ended up with the third pick next year?  You know how we can guarantee that we won't get a high pick next year?  By making the playoffs.

Re: For those who dont want us to be an 8 seed...
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2014, 02:34:50 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

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I feel team can use a year of growth and teams absolutely need to get 2 stars to do anything in the playoffs. They only have one guy in Rondo. He should be on his way out so let this be another year of a top 10 pick. Don't bother trying to make it. Build through the draft acquire a good group of guys that can grow together. Once team feels they have something you go out and land a big top 15 player to put you in real contention. Smart, Young, Olynyk, Sully are all too green to make a playoff push.

Re: For those who dont want us to be an 8 seed...
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2014, 06:00:53 AM »

Offline boscel33

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Pass.
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Re: For those who dont want us to be an 8 seed...
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2014, 07:31:00 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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The main priority this year should be developing our talent.   This will both increase it's value and their skill as players.   If this causes us to tank so be it.  No one wanted our picks or assets this year.   So we have to increase their value and some of them might just be worth keeping.   But the playoff should be second fiddle to developing players.  We have the cash

I hope I am wrong on Sully and I hope he pans out.  I too am low on him.

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We were also "due" in the lottery this year but howd that work out?
  We got a bulldog of a PG who can play lockdown D.   CLE who tanked did quite well.   Philly and the Bucks did quite well.

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im sure the hawks feel better than the bucks right now.
  you are aware that the bucks got jabari parker right?  One thing you might note several teams non playoffs are probably happy with their pick.

I think we focus on Player development if that leads to tanking we do it.   We will have tons of cap space next year.  But the growth is what is critical not the playoffs.   I rather be bad for a few years than ten.   

Re: For those who dont want us to be an 8 seed...
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2014, 08:49:14 AM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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for me at least, the celtics being the eighth seed would be ok ... as long as it marks the beginning of the celtics' rise to contention.

that is, for the next year or two i would prefer the lottery to being a marginal playoff team, so the team can become much stronger. but once all the players and pieces are in place, then i want the celtics to begin a long and successful window of playoff runs.

if the start of that run begins with the eighth seed, i am fine with it. but i don't want the celtics to be the  eighth seed if it foreshadows a decade of being mediocre.

as i see it, being the eighth seed next year would hurt more than help the long term prospects of the celtics.
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Re: For those who dont want us to be an 8 seed...
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2014, 08:54:46 AM »

Offline Eddie20

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Remember 2013? We were a 7th seed abd went up against the heavily favoured knicks and gave them a good run... That was fun wasnt it?? And we still got olynyk in the draft... Anything is possible so u may as well give the young guys some playoff experience and the vets a chance to showcase their talents and up their trade value...

I agree. Everyone says that being a 6-8th seed is NBA purgatory but I don't think it's any worse than missing the playoffs every year, hoping for fools gold in the draft and ending up with the number 6 pick (sound familiar?)

Yeah, it does sound very familiar. In the 77-78 season we finished with the 6th worst record in the league, thus giving us the #6 pick. We drafted Bird and the rest is history.

Re: For those who dont want us to be an 8 seed...
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2014, 09:12:12 AM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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Remember 2013? We were a 7th seed abd went up against the heavily favoured knicks and gave them a good run... That was fun wasnt it?? And we still got olynyk in the draft... Anything is possible so u may as well give the young guys some playoff experience and the vets a chance to showcase their talents and up their trade value...

...

Here's something else to think about - what if we had taken Giannis instead of KO, kept Pierce and Garnett, traded Green and Terry for, I don't know, anybody, haha, and signed Greg Oden?  He would have been awesome behind KG, and that team could have surprised a lot of people, imo, even with Rondo coming back mid season.  Put Pierce on the 5-5-5 plan to keep him fresh, sign Barbosa, and see what happens.  The Greek Freak would have added the perfect dimens  ion to our club, imho, and he would have learned so much from Pierce and Garnett.  ...
giannis antetokounmpo
min     pts     rbd     ast      fg%     3pt%    ft%    st     blk    fouls
24.6    6.8     4.4     1.9     .414    .347      .683   0.8   0.8    2.2

kelly olynyk
min     pts     rbd     ast      fg%     3pt%    ft%    st     blk    fouls
20.0    8.7     5.2     1.6     .466    .351      .811   0.5   0.4   3.2

sorry, i just don't see it. olly played 4.6 minutes LESS per game and put up stats in each category that are either very, very similar...or better.

if you prefer, we can project out to 36 minutes for a comparison:

antetokounmpo
pts     rbd     ast      st     blk   
10      6.4     2.8     1.1    1.2

olynyk 
pts     rbd     ast      st     blk   
15.6   9.4     2.8     0.9   0.7 

if you want to say "sss" go ahead, but it is the only sample we have, so we don't have much choice here. things may change in the future. i am sure antetokounmpo will be a good nba player, but so far i don't see a clear and definitive case that olly was clearly a poorer choice than antetokounmpo.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2014, 09:17:23 AM by hwangjini_1 »
I believe Gandhi is the only person who knew about real democracy — not democracy as the right to go and buy what you want, but democracy as the responsibility to be accountable to everyone around you. Democracy begins with freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from fear, and freedom from hatred.
- Vandana Shiva

Re: For those who dont want us to be an 8 seed...
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2014, 10:25:17 AM »

Offline gpap

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I agree. Everyone says that being a 6-8th seed is NBA purgatory but I don't think it's any worse than missing the playoffs every year, hoping for fools gold in the draft and ending up with the number 6 pick (sound familiar?)

Actually it does not sound familiar, we only picked 6th this year in recent memory.  Here are our draft picks all time.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/draft.html

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Not to mention, the Cavs will probably keep winning the draft lottery every year anyway.

I do not know why I am arguing with some one who thinks a LeBron Cavs team will be in the lotto.   It will be like talking to a wall.[/b]

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If the Celts can acquire a couple veterans right now and make a playoff push this season, they should do it.


All evidence points to the fact that no one wanted our assets.   DA got some veterans, just not star veterans.   This leads me to believe that we do not have enough talent stockpiled to turn it into something decent.   Ainge doesn't want the team to suck.  If he could have done something by now he would.   Let's hope he has something up his sleeve.   But it could very well be another year of tanking.  Time will tell.

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Right now, the Eastern Conference is wide open as Miami will no longer be monopolizing the number 1 seed.

Because division titles mean so much.  Are you kidding me?  MIA still has more talent than us and I bet we won't play as hard without LeBron to motivate us but Rondo still goes hard at Wade.

The wall was being sarcastic. Like you know, how everyone thinks you need to tank to become good again. The Cavs weren't even tanking last season and still ended up with the number 1 pick.