Needs to be said

[Beat LA]

As a long time Celtics fan (40+ years) the only thing I can say to those who are frustrated - is don't worry, it's going to get worse before it gets better.  As currently constituted this team is on target for once again winning less than 30 games.  Patience is going to be required because it's going to take awhile.  I get the feeling that many think it's just going to be a couple of years.  It may well be longer than that.

Sigh.  You're right, unfortunately.  Ainge had a few chances to draft players that would have both extended our run and been the foundation for our club moving forward, but he blew it, and we are where we are.  Look at the Pacers after the brawl.  It took them 8-9 seasons before they were contenders again.  I know it's hard, and frustrating, and I don't like many moves that Ainge has made over the years, but it's not our call - no matter how badly we wish it could be.  So sit back, relax, enjoy watching our new players develop (we hope), and, if nothing, else, enjoy Tommy for as long as he's around.  Paul Pierce and KG aside, the one person in the organization who deserved to see us raise one more banner more than anyone, especially after Bias, Lewis, The Garden being torn down, Duncan, Pitino, Paul Gaston, Antoine, Billups, Joe Johnson, Chris Wallace, the 2007 draft lottery, and Red passing away, was Tommy.  I was fortunate enough to get my picture taken with him once at a preseason game, and it was amazing to see the reaction of so many other fans when we told them that he was there - "Tommy!?  Tommy's here!?"  Sorry, I wasn't trying to make this depressing or anything.  Let's just savor the best two guys behind the mics in the business for as long as possible

[D.o.s.]

I actually really enjoy the rebuilding process...always have. And I do not know of any team that has the long term health of the celtics. Its only been one year.

I do too as long as there is a plan.  I like seeing the young guys develop.

Theres just something about the process. I think at first I wanted a winner....but long time ago I learned to like the youth movement/ rebuilding. Then I grew to love it. TP

And then you get sick of watching brutally bad basketball right around game 50 and tune out until the playoffs, when you watch good hoops again and recall it faintly, like the glimmer of a star that's long since burnt out in Boston.

[Sixth Man]

There's an awful lot of hand-wringing going on here.  Just remember, guys, that if you're really feeling down about the Celts, you can always call a suicide prevention hotline first...;-)

[jaketwice]

I am deeply disappointed with the way the Celtics' last season, off-season, and the next season, projected based on our players, has shaken out, and seems likely to shake out (as the case may be).

We have five player about the right height to play the point guard position:

Rondo, Smart, Thornton, Bradley and Pressey; they in turn either can't shoot, are too short, can't defend, or can't pass.

We have two players with big salaries who I don't expect to see a lot of playing time: Gerald Wallace and Keith Bogans.

Our starting small forward is basically a synonym for "inconsistent," and our two most exciting young players are both deeply flawed power forwards.

There is not one, single, complete player on the roster: no tall point guards who can defend, score and pass; no wing players who can drive, defend, and shoot, and no power forwards who can hit shots all over the court/are amazingly athletic and can defend. No two way centers. No three and D guys.

There are some bright spots: Green is athletic, Rondo has an amazing mind for the game; Zeller has some post, and pick and roll ability, and Olynyk's jumper is improving. And if James Young can shoot, he has the height to be a real asset at his position. But - realistically - this team can't guard 80% of the teams in the NBA right now, and probably won't be able to score on more than half of them. Next year is going to be very, very painful to watch. And after last year... Ouch.

You talk about our youth as if they're fully developed.  Even a guy like Sullinger is still only 22 years of age, and only has a year and a half under his belt.

No tall point guards on the roster who can defend ?  You have an all star point guard, what's the problem here ?  You just drafted one of the best defending Point Guards in college basketball.  He's 20, btw.

You need to be patient and let the process play out.  The only thing you need to know is this :

Boston's youth:

Smart
Bradley
Olynyk
Sullinger
Young

Boston's picks:

Boston's own picks
Brooklyn's 2016, 2017 (right to swap with Nets), 2018
2015 Clippers First Round Pick
2015 76ers First Round Pick (or two 2nds)
2016 Cavs First Round Pick (Top 10 protected in 16', 17', or 18'. Unprotected in 19')

Boston's expirings:

Joel Anthony
Keith Bogans
Brandon Bass
Marcus Thornton

You're setup to completely overhaul this thing and get back to the playoffs in a hurry.  Have some patience and let it unfold.  No end in sight ?  Please.  Gimme a break.

Really, when do you see the end? Do you see the end next year? Will that be the year we draft the franchise savior? No? How about 2016? No end in sight means - literally - what it says. I do not see a route for the Celtics to get back into contention. Even if we mortgage all of these assets for Love; is there a demonstrable difference, besides R. Rondo, in Boston's surrounding Roster and Minnesota's? Granter Rubio is a bit of a turd - but Pekovic is better than any center or forward on our roster. Does Love, Rondo, Olynyk, Green and Avery Bradley win you the EC?

No. Way.

There are literally five teams who are better, maybe more.

There is no end in sight. You know someone is pulling your chain when they tell you to trust in the fearless leader. Is Danny Ainge a genius? No! He has clearly whiffed on a number of picks. ...no one is perfect, and I don't blame him for trying - but betting on a "pick" is betting on some 19 year old kid. Why would a free agent want to play here? To experience the simmering tension of Gerald Wallace not getting playing time? To watch Olynyk get smoked on defense? To wonder which Jeff Green is going to show up on any given night?

Look - our best player - and it's not close, Rondo - is flawed. He is simply not a good enough shooter. He is a sub-30% 3p shooter, and has never - NEVER - shot better than 70% from the FT line, league AVERAGE is 75%+. Anyway - his greatest strengths are minimized with this team, as we are not really that athletic, and aren't great shooters.

Where is this end in sight? You tell me. But don't resort to that condescending "we have a super hero" garbage argument. Rah rah. I'm a fan also - that's why I care about it. If we have a super hero, tell me why he's a super hero. What has Brad Stevens done in the NBA again that leads you to feel so confident in him?

This is silly. Youre saying there is no way the celtics ever contend again?

No. I am decidedly not saying that.

I am saying: I don't see the plan here. Is the plan an '07 style "flotsam for KG" type trade? Is the plan, "draft young players and see what happens?" Is the plan, "pursue Marc Gasol and LaMarcus Aldridge in 2015?"

An "asset" doesn't win a basketball game. And you know what, I can enjoy like 30 games of players "developing" before watching another loss gets disheartening. I'm just lamenting.

The way forward doesn't seem clear to me. Why did Bradley get a $32M contract? Why do we have five point guards under contract? Who is the power forward of the future? What kind of team is this? A jump shooting team? A defense first team? A running team? ...and what is going to induce Rondo to re-sign with us? We won't offer him the max - or, we shouldn't at least - because he isn't worth it. He can't shoot, and so he isn't a max guy. He plays the most abundant position in the league.

But, if we lose Rondo, it's a tankapalooza again in 2015. Okay. Fine. But why? Why would we want to tank in 2015? Jahlil Okafor? So, 11 months until a 19 year old comes here to - maybe - save us? Other teams are getting so good. And then, even assuming we get a great prospect in both of the next two drafts, right in our conference are a few teams: Orlando, 76ers (but mostly the 76ers) who will be two years ahead of us with their young players.

I can't see how we are a serious EC contender until at least 2017. ...think about it: that is SUCH a long time.

[SHAQATTACK]

We all dreaded this .....the low point in the rebuild ......Hornets normal basketball.

We knew it was coming with the Nets trade and loss of Allen


Sucky times with Wallace and Bogans are here ......


But only for a while .


We have to survive till 2015 ....when the turd role players disappear ....Bass , Green, Wallace and all the rest .....we ll have many picks

And probably another Lottery appearance till then.


Watch in 2016 2017 for Lakers and Celtcis to explode back on the scene and back to,the top .

It's coming

Just grit your teeth

[BballTim]

I am deeply disappointed with the way the Celtics' last season, off-season, and the next season, projected based on our players, has shaken out, and seems likely to shake out (as the case may be).

We have five player about the right height to play the point guard position:

Rondo, Smart, Thornton, Bradley and Pressey; they in turn either can't shoot, are too short, can't defend, or can't pass.

We have two players with big salaries who I don't expect to see a lot of playing time: Gerald Wallace and Keith Bogans.

Our starting small forward is basically a synonym for "inconsistent," and our two most exciting young players are both deeply flawed power forwards.

There is not one, single, complete player on the roster: no tall point guards who can defend, score and pass; no wing players who can drive, defend, and shoot, and no power forwards who can hit shots all over the court/are amazingly athletic and can defend. No two way centers. No three and D guys.

There are some bright spots: Green is athletic, Rondo has an amazing mind for the game; Zeller has some post, and pick and roll ability, and Olynyk's jumper is improving. And if James Young can shoot, he has the height to be a real asset at his position. But - realistically - this team can't guard 80% of the teams in the NBA right now, and probably won't be able to score on more than half of them. Next year is going to be very, very painful to watch. And after last year... Ouch.

You talk about our youth as if they're fully developed.  Even a guy like Sullinger is still only 22 years of age, and only has a year and a half under his belt.

No tall point guards on the roster who can defend ?  You have an all star point guard, what's the problem here ?  You just drafted one of the best defending Point Guards in college basketball.  He's 20, btw.

You need to be patient and let the process play out.  The only thing you need to know is this :

Boston's youth:

Smart
Bradley
Olynyk
Sullinger
Young

Boston's picks:

Boston's own picks
Brooklyn's 2016, 2017 (right to swap with Nets), 2018
2015 Clippers First Round Pick
2015 76ers First Round Pick (or two 2nds)
2016 Cavs First Round Pick (Top 10 protected in 16', 17', or 18'. Unprotected in 19')

Boston's expirings:

Joel Anthony
Keith Bogans
Brandon Bass
Marcus Thornton

You're setup to completely overhaul this thing and get back to the playoffs in a hurry.  Have some patience and let it unfold.  No end in sight ?  Please.  Gimme a break.

Really, when do you see the end? Do you see the end next year? Will that be the year we draft the franchise savior? No? How about 2016? No end in sight means - literally - what it says. I do not see a route for the Celtics to get back into contention. Even if we mortgage all of these assets for Love; is there a demonstrable difference, besides R. Rondo, in Boston's surrounding Roster and Minnesota's? Granter Rubio is a bit of a turd - but Pekovic is better than any center or forward on our roster. Does Love, Rondo, Olynyk, Green and Avery Bradley win you the EC?

No. Way.

There are literally five teams who are better, maybe more.

There is no end in sight. You know someone is pulling your chain when they tell you to trust in the fearless leader. Is Danny Ainge a genius? No! He has clearly whiffed on a number of picks. ...no one is perfect, and I don't blame him for trying - but betting on a "pick" is betting on some 19 year old kid. Why would a free agent want to play here? To experience the simmering tension of Gerald Wallace not getting playing time? To watch Olynyk get smoked on defense? To wonder which Jeff Green is going to show up on any given night?

Look - our best player - and it's not close, Rondo - is flawed. He is simply not a good enough shooter. He is a sub-30% 3p shooter, and has never - NEVER - shot better than 70% from the FT line, league AVERAGE is 75%+. Anyway - his greatest strengths are minimized with this team, as we are not really that athletic, and aren't great shooters.

Where is this end in sight? You tell me. But don't resort to that condescending "we have a super hero" garbage argument. Rah rah. I'm a fan also - that's why I care about it. If we have a super hero, tell me why he's a super hero. What has Brad Stevens done in the NBA again that leads you to feel so confident in him?

This is silly. Youre saying there is no way the celtics ever contend again?

No. I am decidedly not saying that.

I am saying: I don't see the plan here. Is the plan an '07 style "flotsam for KG" type trade? Is the plan, "draft young players and see what happens?" Is the plan, "pursue Marc Gasol and LaMarcus Aldridge in 2015?"

An "asset" doesn't win a basketball game. And you know what, I can enjoy like 30 games of players "developing" before watching another loss gets disheartening. I'm just lamenting.

The way forward doesn't seem clear to me. Why did Bradley get a $32M contract? Why do we have five point guards under contract? Who is the power forward of the future? What kind of team is this? A jump shooting team? A defense first team? A running team? ...and what is going to induce Rondo to re-sign with us? We won't offer him the max - or, we shouldn't at least - because he isn't worth it. He can't shoot, and so he isn't a max guy. He plays the most abundant position in the league.

But, if we lose Rondo, it's a tankapalooza again in 2015. Okay. Fine. But why? Why would we want to tank in 2015? Jahlil Okafor? So, 11 months until a 19 year old comes here to - maybe - save us? Other teams are getting so good. And then, even assuming we get a great prospect in both of the next two drafts, right in our conference are a few teams: Orlando, 76ers (but mostly the 76ers) who will be two years ahead of us with their young players.

I can't see how we are a serious EC contender until at least 2017. ...think about it: that is SUCH a long time.

  People would be thrilled with Danny if we are a serious EC contender in 2017.

[NorthernLightning]

We all dreaded this .....the low point in the rebuild ......Hornets normal basketball.

The low point in the rebuild has already come and gone, and a lot of people around here are going to wonder why they were so unnecessarily miserable all summer.

All because of a complete inability to project growth from young players. Pathetic.

[NorthernLightning]

There's an awful lot of hand-wringing going on here.  Just remember, guys, that if you're really feeling down about the Celts, you can always call a suicide prevention hotline first...;-)

If these people were Nets fans, they would have been thrilled with the trade for Joe Johnson and his massive contract, because it was a pro-active move and the type of "plan" they can wrap their brains around. And they would have believed the KG and Pierce trade put the Nets over the top.

[chambers]

Could be 3 or 4 seasons until we make the playoffs guys.
This is the NBA. The GM of the Celtics is a 'championship or bust' kinda guy. He's not rolling out a team to win 45-50 games and ultimately lose to the real contenders for 5-6 years and start over again.
He won't make moves because Celtics fans wanna make the playoffs. He'll make moves that bring us closer to becoming a serious contender- a top 4 team with 2 to 3 top 15 players and hopefully a top 5 player as part of that core.

As frustrating as it is to watch our young guys play vomit-ball out there, they are ultimately developing value for a move to gain those top 15 players down the line.
Could be a month, could be 4 or 5 years (or longer).
There's no one in the NBA with the asset haul that we have,
and it's only a matter of time until Ainge finds someone to deal with.
He's just waiting for a championship opportunity, not a perennial 4th-6th seed playoff opportunity.

[Celtics4ever]

Could be 3 or 4 seasons until we make the playoffs guys.
This is the NBA. The GM of the Celtics is a 'championship or bust' kinda guy. He's not rolling out a team to win 45-50 games and ultimately lose to the real contenders for 5-6 years and start over again.
He won't make moves because Celtics fans wanna make the playoffs. He'll make moves that bring us closer to becoming a serious contender- a top 4 team with 2 to 3 top 15 players and hopefully a top 5 player as part of that core.

As frustrating as it is to watch our young guys play vomit-ball out there, they are ultimately developing value for a move to gain those top 15 players down the line.
Could be a month, could be 4 or 5 years (or longer).
There's no one in the NBA with the asset haul that we have,
and it's only a matter of time until Ainge finds someone to deal with.
He's just waiting for a championship opportunity, not a perennial 4th-6th seed playoff opportunity.

Well said +1!

There is always room off the bandwagon for those who are too disgusted.  Celtic fan, here good or bad.  We all hoped for a draft miracle or Ainge to make a trade but it doesn't always happen.

[D.o.s.]

There's an awful lot of hand-wringing going on here.  Just remember, guys, that if you're really feeling down about the Celts, you can always call a suicide prevention hotline first...;-)

If these people were Nets fans, they would have been thrilled with the trade for Joe Johnson and his massive contract, because it was a pro-active move and the type of "plan" they can wrap their brains around. And they would have believed the KG and Pierce trade put the Nets over the top.

Putting mostly bad and/or inexperienced players on the floor isn't fun to watch over a whole season, whether or not you get a boner from player development.

[Sixth Man]

There's an awful lot of hand-wringing going on here.  Just remember, guys, that if you're really feeling down about the Celts, you can always call a suicide prevention hotline first...;-)

If these people were Nets fans, they would have been thrilled with the trade for Joe Johnson and his massive contract, because it was a pro-active move and the type of "plan" they can wrap their brains around. And they would have believed the KG and Pierce trade put the Nets over the top.

Yup, but in our case, just substitute "Kevin Love" for 'Joe Johnson'...thank heavens Danny
wasn't foolish enough to play Flip's game.  We never had the requisite assets to trade for KL
anyway.

[Sixth Man]

There's an awful lot of hand-wringing going on here.  Just remember, guys, that if you're really feeling down about the Celts, you can always call a suicide prevention hotline first...;-)

If these people were Nets fans, they would have been thrilled with the trade for Joe Johnson and his massive contract, because it was a pro-active move and the type of "plan" they can wrap their brains around. And they would have believed the KG and Pierce trade put the Nets over the top.

Putting mostly bad and/or inexperienced players on the floor isn't fun to watch over a whole season, whether or not you get a boner from player development.

Oh, boo-hoo.  Rome wasn't built in a year, and neither will the Celts' next title team be, either.  I've been on the bandwagon since 1974, living and dying with each and every game, through the peaks and the valleys.  If others don't have the patience to suffer through a rebuild, they can simply find something else to do with the time and energy they previously spent following the Celts.  No offense to you or anyone else, but I personally couldn't care less what others choose to do in this regard.  Forty years in, I'm still here and here for the long haul. 

Hope to see most of you still on the bandwagon - we will rise again...

[LooseCannon]

I dont understand where the high expectation for a quick rebuild came from. Rebuilding in the NBA takes a long time and a fair amount of luck.

A quick rebuild was a reasonable possibility.  We still might get the main pieces set up within a year from now.  Some people just hop on the best-case scenario and treat it as fait accompli.

It's foolish to think a rebuild will come quickly.  It's foolish to think a rebuild can never come quickly.  Plan A, I suspect, is to build a Pistons-style ensemble with a Rondo-Bradley starting backcourt, but Ainge will gladly move on to a Plan B and try to acquire a MVP-caliber player like Kevin Love, should one become available.

[Greenbean]

There's an awful lot of hand-wringing going on here.  Just remember, guys, that if you're really feeling down about the Celts, you can always call a suicide prevention hotline first...;-)

If these people were Nets fans, they would have been thrilled with the trade for Joe Johnson and his massive contract, because it was a pro-active move and the type of "plan" they can wrap their brains around. And they would have believed the KG and Pierce trade put the Nets over the top.

Putting mostly bad and/or inexperienced players on the floor isn't fun to watch over a whole season, whether or not you get a boner from player development.

Oh, boo-hoo.  Rome wasn't built in a year, and neither will the Celts' next title team be, either.  I've been on the bandwagon since 1974, living and dying with each and every game, through the peaks and the valleys.  If others don't have the patience to suffer through a rebuild, they can simply find something else to do with the time and energy they previously spent following the Celts.  No offense to you or anyone else, but I personally couldn't care less what others choose to do in this regard.  Forty years in, I'm still here and here for the long haul. 

Hope to see most of you still on the bandwagon - we will rise again...

TP man.

I understand people being impatient, but I am really tired of the condiscending tone coming from the camp demanding a quick rebuild. I recently became active in this forum again because I am passionate about this team and I am looking for like minded souls who want to discusss the future of this team. I am seeing an awful lot of, "this team will suck forever and you are an idiot if you think otherwise" going on here. Reminds me of why I stopped being active here in the first place.

I could sit here and growl and stomp my feet that my Celtics are not going to contend over the next 2-3 years, but I choose not to consume sports that way. It is not easy to build a championship contender in the NBA and there is a great deal of luck involved.

Im all for healthy debates, and I dont mind negative fandom, but I dont need to hear that I am a "soft" fan for honestly giving my opinion that I enjoy player development over watching overpaid mediocre veterans getting bounced in the first round every year.