Would you rather trade Sully or Oly?

[Jailan34]

high school highlights...normally players get more mobile after.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7Nlrpxo390

Thanks for posting that. That was great. Never saw a Sully high school video before.

Who chose the crap music for that?  It was painful.

Wow. Sully got less mobile since hs?

It's pretty obvious Sully has got into worse shape since then. He still has time before the season though.

[GreenWarrior]

if sully keeps eating we won't have to make a choice. he'll eat himself out of the league.

[celticdog]

I'm very concerned and disappointed over Sully's weight gain.  He's always referred to his backside as his "best friend".  Well, his booty is becoming his worst enemy. 

The weight doesnt make things any easier on his back.  I really hope he gets it together. 

In interviews Sully doesnt seem very determined to me.  He seems to downplay and joke about the issue, which isnt necessarily bad if it is accompanied with a legit work ethic.  I have my doubts. 

[Celtics4ever]

Keep Olynyk trade Joey Chestnut Jr.

[Csfan1984]

Chose to trade Sully but Sully is the better player right now. Sully will probably always be better. Sully is even younger than Olynyk. My big reason for the choice is I see Sully as a good PF and Olynyk as a decent C. We need a C more than a PF and when a center hustles + shows some skill they have to be kept when ever possible.

[furball]

I have been saying Sully was a back up PF since last season and I've been saying Kelly is going to be at least a very good starter in the league.  I would have chosen to keep Kelly before and i chose him now.  He's just the better player. 

[hwangjini_1]

Olynyk is growing on me, but I don't really see him drastically improving. I think he pretty much maxed out his potential more or less.

I'm curious as to what makes you think this.   He could still make significant improvements in his:

1) Body.  Agility, strength, and conditioning.  Hopefully Brian Doo and crew can maximize the improvement in his lateral agility, because he's lacking there.
2) Ball-handling.  He almost exclusively drives left.  He loves to take two dribbles left and then spin right.  Coaches and players will catch on to this eventually.  If he could drive right equally effectively, he'd be a major matchup problem for other bigs.
3) Defense.  Nobody expects a rookie big man to play well defensively, so improvements are to be expected in subsequent seasons.
4) Offensive comfort level.  As a rookie, he almost never posted up.  I think he could be a terrific post-up threat given his passing ability and offensive skill set.  We're probably going to see more of it this season, and he'll improve as he gains more experience.

Even if he makes these improvements, among others, I don't expect him to become an All-Star (prove me wrong Kelly).  But he'll be a very solid piece to have.

lets be honest here. olly is a poor defender. he has very little lateral quickness, which is why he almost always plays way off him man on defense. if he plays closer to him the guy blows right by olly. and he does not recover all that well and block shots from behind either.

stength, team defense, etc. can help olly. but i doubt he will ever be much more than adequate. but given his offense, that is acceptable.

i like olly, but if we are comparing him to sully then it is almost apples to oranges in terms of the games they play. that is why i like BOTH of them on the celtics.

sully plays best when he plays close or under the basket. he has the body and strength to simply push people out of the way and bull his way for a rebound. i like that. he is also a strong, nasty defender.

olly excells away from the basket, not under it. he lacks sully's strength and especially in the legs. but away from the basket he is a better shooter than sully.

and let's not use last years shooting stats as the deciding factor in judging these guys. stevens told sully to shoot 3 pointers and take mid range shots. this was largely new ground for sully. i give him a mulligan on this.

i agree with the earlier poster. keep both. each compliments the over and they are both cheap right now.

i have to laugh at this thread though. i remember the start of last season, so many cbers were calling for olly to be cut or dumped by the celtics. how many labeled him a bust? but, ala bradley, patience has allowed us to see a different player over time.

[kozlodoev]

Chose to trade Sully but Sully is the better player right now. Sully will probably always be better. Sully is even younger than Olynyk. My big reason for the choice is I see Sully as a good PF and Olynyk as a decent C. We need a C more than a PF and when a center hustles + shows some skill they have to be kept when ever possible.

Other than the fact that Olynyk is not a center... yeah, the rest doesn't make much sense, either

[Jiri Welsch]

Sully because you have an extra year of KO on his rookie contract.

[Csfan1984]

Chose to trade Sully but Sully is the better player right now. Sully will probably always be better. Sully is even younger than Olynyk. My big reason for the choice is I see Sully as a good PF and Olynyk as a decent C. We need a C more than a PF and when a center hustles + shows some skill they have to be kept when ever possible.

Other than the fact that Olynyk is not a center... yeah, the rest doesn't make much sense, either

Fact? I have a few facts Olynyk can't guard 60% of the starting PFs in the league just too slow. His biggest upside is at Center as a stretch 5. He is also 7' in shoes and supposedly weighs 250lbs now.

[SCeltic34]

Olynyk is growing on me, but I don't really see him drastically improving. I think he pretty much maxed out his potential more or less.

I'm curious as to what makes you think this.   He could still make significant improvements in his:

1) Body.  Agility, strength, and conditioning.  Hopefully Brian Doo and crew can maximize the improvement in his lateral agility, because he's lacking there.
2) Ball-handling.  He almost exclusively drives left.  He loves to take two dribbles left and then spin right.  Coaches and players will catch on to this eventually.  If he could drive right equally effectively, he'd be a major matchup problem for other bigs.
3) Defense.  Nobody expects a rookie big man to play well defensively, so improvements are to be expected in subsequent seasons.
4) Offensive comfort level.  As a rookie, he almost never posted up.  I think he could be a terrific post-up threat given his passing ability and offensive skill set.  We're probably going to see more of it this season, and he'll improve as he gains more experience.

Even if he makes these improvements, among others, I don't expect him to become an All-Star (prove me wrong Kelly).  But he'll be a very solid piece to have.

lets be honest here. olly is a poor defender. he has very little lateral quickness, which is why he almost always plays way off him man on defense. if he plays closer to him the guy blows right by olly. and he does not recover all that well and block shots from behind either.

stength, team defense, etc. can help olly. but i doubt he will ever be much more than adequate. but given his offense, that is acceptable.

i like olly, but if we are comparing him to sully then it is almost apples to oranges in terms of the games they play. that is why i like BOTH of them on the celtics.

sully plays best when he plays close or under the basket. he has the body and strength to simply push people out of the way and bull his way for a rebound. i like that. he is also a strong, nasty defender.

olly excells away from the basket, not under it. he lacks sully's strength and especially in the legs. but away from the basket he is a better shooter than sully.

and let's not use last years shooting stats as the deciding factor in judging these guys. stevens told sully to shoot 3 pointers and take mid range shots. this was largely new ground for sully. i give him a mulligan on this.

i agree with the earlier poster. keep both. each compliments the over and they are both cheap right now.

i have to laugh at this thread though. i remember the start of last season, so many cbers were calling for olly to be cut or dumped by the celtics. how many labeled him a bust? but, ala bradley, patience has allowed us to see a different player over time.

I agree that Olynyk is poor defensively, and even if he improves he will never be a great defensive player.

But like good ol' Tommy Heinsohn says, it's very difficult for a big man to come in as a rookie and anchor a defense in the NBA.  KO is smart, so he'll improve defensively from a standpoint of awareness and positioning.  Hopefully we'll see some improvements this season over last.

[kozlodoev]

Chose to trade Sully but Sully is the better player right now. Sully will probably always be better. Sully is even younger than Olynyk. My big reason for the choice is I see Sully as a good PF and Olynyk as a decent C. We need a C more than a PF and when a center hustles + shows some skill they have to be kept when ever possible.

Other than the fact that Olynyk is not a center... yeah, the rest doesn't make much sense, either

Fact? I have a few facts Olynyk can't guard 60% of the starting PFs in the league just too slow. His biggest upside is at Center as a stretch 5. He is also 7' in shoes and supposedly weighs 250lbs now.

If he can't guard 60% of the PFs (are you sure it's not 65%? or perhaps 57%?), then he can't guard 100% of the centers. Neither of this is true, of course, but he's still not a center.

He may weigh as much as he wants -- he's not giving you rim protection (and there are multiple reasons for that, including wingspan, awareness, and ability to elevate). He's not a center. Period, the end.

[Celtics18]

The right choice is to trade Oly. He is definitely the player with the lower upside and worse defense. He is benefitting right now from exposure at summer league which as we all know is just summer league and not a great indicator of future success. Meanwhile Sully had a story about him that was unflattering. But when it comes time to play actual NBA regular season basketball, after this entire summer off, I think Sully will show he is the much better ball player.

And please people, do not inundate me with meaningless stats from half a season of Olynyk or the stats from his final 2 weeks last year. I have seen them and given their context do not put a lot of weight into their meaning since we were a horrible team and teams knew this and took nights off guarding the Celtics in the 2nd half of last year. I will wait for a larger sample size to sift through thank you very much

Right, but they only took nights off against Olynyk?  The other young Celtics and all the young players for teams like Philadelphia, Milwaukee, Orlando, Sacramento, Utah, Detroit, and Cleveland had to earn everything they got, right?

I'm sorry, Nick, but it's a ridiculous argument.  The reason Kelly played well over the second half of the season is because he's good and he started playing better.  It's not simply because the other teams let him play well.

[aingeforthree]

Keep Olynyk at all costs. Heckuva pick by Ainge. So glad he traded up to get him.

To see his body mature this quickly is quite astonishing. The kid has a unique skill set & is obviously willing to put in work to be the best. You can't trade that upside.

[rollie mass]

KO rookie season dealing with pace ,along with injury and rookie ref's syndrome and he probably sufferers more from lack of rim protector  as a smart defender would be able to adjust to that kind of backup-also smart's going to rim should help his perimeter game-i imagine all the trade rumors might not be motivational for sully or it is being blown our out of proportion while favoring KO as he looked dominant in first summer league game- and finished well after all star break-