Rumor: Rondo wants max extension

[slamtheking]

I think a more realistic scoring goal to hope for from Rondo would about 12 ppg.   While that may not sound super impressive, if it comes along with 9+ assists and 4+ rebounds per game, (which both seem very realistic for Rondo) the overall result ends up being extremely impressive.

but that isn't any where near a max contract player.

By who's definition?

You do understand that the number of people who have posted seasons like that is a very short list and of some pretty good players, right?   Aside from Rondo, 4 of the other 6 players who had done that since 2000 are are Chris Paul, Steve Nash, Jason Kidd and Deron Williams.  All 4 received a max contract in their careers.  Of the other two, Vasquez and Andre Miller only did it once.  Vasquez is still young, just off his rookie deal.

I suspect that GMs value players a little different than a lot of fans do.

You know what those other 4 players did/do that Rondo doesn't.  They shoot the ball very well from the outside.  They score points at a much great clip than Rondo.  They could all be a #1 or #2 scoring option.  Rondo isn't that guy.  I mean even Kidd could be that guy (Kidd is nearly 10% points higher on his career from 3 point range and over 15% from the line, and Kidd is the second worst shooter of that 5 man grouping). 

Rondo is not a max player because he can't be the best player on a championship team.  He could certainly be a second player on a title team with the right #1 guy, but I think he slots more realistically as a #3 player.  His skill set serves a complimentary role and as such he should be paid as a complimentary player, which I would peg in the 10-15 million range annually depending on how he looks this year (if he returns to form 15 million, if he doesn't something less).

You both have valid points.

I agree that I don't consider Rondo a 'max' player but that's strictly because of his shooting.  I do think he's reasonably close though based on everything else he does. 

Based on his full skill package and in light of what better-than-average players like Parsons and Hayward received this offseason, I think he could reasonably ask for 17-18 mill per year next year. 

[Moranis]

I think a more realistic scoring goal to hope for from Rondo would about 12 ppg.   While that may not sound super impressive, if it comes along with 9+ assists and 4+ rebounds per game, (which both seem very realistic for Rondo) the overall result ends up being extremely impressive.

but that isn't any where near a max contract player.

By who's definition?

You do understand that the number of people who have posted seasons like that is a very short list and of some pretty good players, right?   Aside from Rondo, 4 of the other 6 players who had done that since 2000 are are Chris Paul, Steve Nash, Jason Kidd and Deron Williams.  All 4 received a max contract in their careers.  Of the other two, Vasquez and Andre Miller only did it once.  Vasquez is still young, just off his rookie deal.

I suspect that GMs value players a little different than a lot of fans do.

You know what those other 4 players did/do that Rondo doesn't.  They shoot the ball very well from the outside.  They score points at a much great clip than Rondo.  They could all be a #1 or #2 scoring option.  Rondo isn't that guy.  I mean even Kidd could be that guy (Kidd is nearly 10% points higher on his career from 3 point range and over 15% from the line, and Kidd is the second worst shooter of that 5 man grouping). 

Rondo is not a max player because he can't be the best player on a championship team.  He could certainly be a second player on a title team with the right #1 guy, but I think he slots more realistically as a #3 player.  His skill set serves a complimentary role and as such he should be paid as a complimentary player, which I would peg in the 10-15 million range annually depending on how he looks this year (if he returns to form 15 million, if he doesn't something less).

You both have valid points.

I agree that I don't consider Rondo a 'max' player but that's strictly because of his shooting.  I do think he's reasonably close though based on everything else he does. 

Based on his full skill package and in light of what better-than-average players like Parsons and Hayward received this offseason, I think he could reasonably ask for 17-18 mill per year next year.

Yeah but Hayward and Parsons are younger players on the uptick that have shown solid improvement each year in the league.  They also both slot as potential #1 scorers.  Rondo is not that guy. 

[BballTim]

I think a more realistic scoring goal to hope for from Rondo would about 12 ppg.   While that may not sound super impressive, if it comes along with 9+ assists and 4+ rebounds per game, (which both seem very realistic for Rondo) the overall result ends up being extremely impressive.

but that isn't any where near a max contract player.

By who's definition?

You do understand that the number of people who have posted seasons like that is a very short list and of some pretty good players, right?   Aside from Rondo, 4 of the other 6 players who had done that since 2000 are are Chris Paul, Steve Nash, Jason Kidd and Deron Williams.  All 4 received a max contract in their careers.  Of the other two, Vasquez and Andre Miller only did it once.  Vasquez is still young, just off his rookie deal.

I suspect that GMs value players a little different than a lot of fans do.

You know what those other 4 players did/do that Rondo doesn't.  They shoot the ball very well from the outside.  They score points at a much great clip than Rondo.  They could all be a #1 or #2 scoring option.  Rondo isn't that guy.  I mean even Kidd could be that guy (Kidd is nearly 10% points higher on his career from 3 point range and over 15% from the line, and Kidd is the second worst shooter of that 5 man grouping). 

Rondo is not a max player because he can't be the best player on a championship team.  He could certainly be a second player on a title team with the right #1 guy, but I think he slots more realistically as a #3 player.  His skill set serves a complimentary role and as such he should be paid as a complimentary player, which I would peg in the 10-15 million range annually depending on how he looks this year (if he returns to form 15 million, if he doesn't something less).

  Kidd certainly didn't score at a much greater clip than Rondo, and I very much doubt Nash would have made a decent #1 scoring option. Also, Rondo's been the best player on a team that went to game7 of the nba finals and another team that went to game 7 of the conference finals. I think "can't be the best player on a title team" if fairly ridiculous.

[mmmmm]

I think a more realistic scoring goal to hope for from Rondo would about 12 ppg.   While that may not sound super impressive, if it comes along with 9+ assists and 4+ rebounds per game, (which both seem very realistic for Rondo) the overall result ends up being extremely impressive.

but that isn't any where near a max contract player.

By who's definition?

You do understand that the number of people who have posted seasons like that is a very short list and of some pretty good players, right?   Aside from Rondo, 4 of the other 6 players who had done that since 2000 are are Chris Paul, Steve Nash, Jason Kidd and Deron Williams.  All 4 received a max contract in their careers.  Of the other two, Vasquez and Andre Miller only did it once.  Vasquez is still young, just off his rookie deal.

I suspect that GMs value players a little different than a lot of fans do.

You know what those other 4 players did/do that Rondo doesn't.  They shoot the ball very well from the outside.  They score points at a much great clip than Rondo.  They could all be a #1 or #2 scoring option.  Rondo isn't that guy.  I mean even Kidd could be that guy (Kidd is nearly 10% points higher on his career from 3 point range and over 15% from the line, and Kidd is the second worst shooter of that 5 man grouping). 

Rondo is not a max player because he can't be the best player on a championship team.  He could certainly be a second player on a title team with the right #1 guy, but I think he slots more realistically as a #3 player.  His skill set serves a complimentary role and as such he should be paid as a complimentary player, which I would peg in the 10-15 million range annually depending on how he looks this year (if he returns to form 15 million, if he doesn't something less).

So, basically, your definition of a max player (PG edition) is that they MUST be able to shoot threes?

Or is it that they MUST be "the best player on a championship team"?

Those aren't necessarily the same thing.

The latter itself of course, begs for definition.   Does your definition of "the best player on a championship team" require that they must be able to shoot threes?   Is that your basis for asserting that Rondo "can't be" that?   Pretty convenient logic there.

I'm not finding your definition here to be very compelling.  'Pretty sure there have been quite a few max contract players who couldn't shoot threes.  Also pretty sure that there have been quite a few max contract players who weren't "the best player on a championship team".

I'm going to bet that Danny (and most GMs) use a different definition.

[Tr1boy]

My definition of a max player - Alot of times carries the team to wins. Especially when the team is "stuck" or going through a slump. It doesn't matter if your stats are not eyepopping, you do things on both ends that to help make big impact.  You are adaptable. Know how to work with other players on the team.  Things like first one to be at the gym, last one leaving, inspirational and has leadership qualities are also good traits a max player could have.

Rondo since 2012-2013 season as he was handed over the torch
- Most of the time holds the ball for way too long
- Plays gambling defense. For god sakes worry about staying in front of your man first.
- Near zero secondary assists  (multiple passes before open man receives the ball)
- poor leadership skills (birthday incident, ray allen incident, doc rivers incident)

- Last season we lost many games in the 4th quarter. I'm not stating it's all on Rondo, but if he was a max player, he would of helped us steal some wins.  Even if he is at 85-90 percent, if he is a max player he could do it

[Kadin]

Question, since I really don't want to have to go through 14 pages looking for it, does anyone have any evidence that Rondo actually said he wants a max deal? Or is this just more typical rondo hating?

[D.o.s.]

If you can't be bothered to look, why should we be bothered to respond?

Here's a hint: Check the first post in the thread.

[Moranis]

I think a more realistic scoring goal to hope for from Rondo would about 12 ppg.   While that may not sound super impressive, if it comes along with 9+ assists and 4+ rebounds per game, (which both seem very realistic for Rondo) the overall result ends up being extremely impressive.

but that isn't any where near a max contract player.

By who's definition?

You do understand that the number of people who have posted seasons like that is a very short list and of some pretty good players, right?   Aside from Rondo, 4 of the other 6 players who had done that since 2000 are are Chris Paul, Steve Nash, Jason Kidd and Deron Williams.  All 4 received a max contract in their careers.  Of the other two, Vasquez and Andre Miller only did it once.  Vasquez is still young, just off his rookie deal.

I suspect that GMs value players a little different than a lot of fans do.

You know what those other 4 players did/do that Rondo doesn't.  They shoot the ball very well from the outside.  They score points at a much great clip than Rondo.  They could all be a #1 or #2 scoring option.  Rondo isn't that guy.  I mean even Kidd could be that guy (Kidd is nearly 10% points higher on his career from 3 point range and over 15% from the line, and Kidd is the second worst shooter of that 5 man grouping). 

Rondo is not a max player because he can't be the best player on a championship team.  He could certainly be a second player on a title team with the right #1 guy, but I think he slots more realistically as a #3 player.  His skill set serves a complimentary role and as such he should be paid as a complimentary player, which I would peg in the 10-15 million range annually depending on how he looks this year (if he returns to form 15 million, if he doesn't something less).

So, basically, your definition of a max player (PG edition) is that they MUST be able to shoot threes?

Or is it that they MUST be "the best player on a championship team"?

Those aren't necessarily the same thing.

The latter itself of course, begs for definition.   Does your definition of "the best player on a championship team" require that they must be able to shoot threes?   Is that your basis for asserting that Rondo "can't be" that?   Pretty convenient logic there.

I'm not finding your definition here to be very compelling.  'Pretty sure there have been quite a few max contract players who couldn't shoot threes.  Also pretty sure that there have been quite a few max contract players who weren't "the best player on a championship team".

I'm going to bet that Danny (and most GMs) use a different definition.

So many logic leaps in your assessment, I don't know where to begin, but lets start with the obvious.  What separates those 4 max players from Rondo is their ability to score and shoot at a better than average rate.  Iverson, Westbrook, and Rose were (or are) also max contract players from the PG position, because they could/can score with the best of them and can be or were their teams go to player (despite not being the best from long range).  Rondo is not a #1 player and as such he should not be paid like he is one.  And contrary to Bill's continued assertions, Rondo was not the best player on the 2010 and 2011 teams, that was Paul Pierce (and Garnett was second). 

[D.o.s.]

*cough* Iverson was a shooting guard. *cough*

[SHAQATTACK]

Give him the max !

I just upgraded my Rondo wardrobe .

Can't trade him for least one season

[slamtheking]

I think a more realistic scoring goal to hope for from Rondo would about 12 ppg.   While that may not sound super impressive, if it comes along with 9+ assists and 4+ rebounds per game, (which both seem very realistic for Rondo) the overall result ends up being extremely impressive.

but that isn't any where near a max contract player.

By who's definition?

You do understand that the number of people who have posted seasons like that is a very short list and of some pretty good players, right?   Aside from Rondo, 4 of the other 6 players who had done that since 2000 are are Chris Paul, Steve Nash, Jason Kidd and Deron Williams.  All 4 received a max contract in their careers.  Of the other two, Vasquez and Andre Miller only did it once.  Vasquez is still young, just off his rookie deal.

I suspect that GMs value players a little different than a lot of fans do.

You know what those other 4 players did/do that Rondo doesn't.  They shoot the ball very well from the outside.  They score points at a much great clip than Rondo.  They could all be a #1 or #2 scoring option.  Rondo isn't that guy.  I mean even Kidd could be that guy (Kidd is nearly 10% points higher on his career from 3 point range and over 15% from the line, and Kidd is the second worst shooter of that 5 man grouping). 

Rondo is not a max player because he can't be the best player on a championship team.  He could certainly be a second player on a title team with the right #1 guy, but I think he slots more realistically as a #3 player.  His skill set serves a complimentary role and as such he should be paid as a complimentary player, which I would peg in the 10-15 million range annually depending on how he looks this year (if he returns to form 15 million, if he doesn't something less).

You both have valid points.

I agree that I don't consider Rondo a 'max' player but that's strictly because of his shooting.  I do think he's reasonably close though based on everything else he does. 

Based on his full skill package and in light of what better-than-average players like Parsons and Hayward received this offseason, I think he could reasonably ask for 17-18 mill per year next year.

Yeah but Hayward and Parsons are younger players on the uptick that have shown solid improvement each year in the league.  They also both slot as potential #1 scorers.  Rondo is not that guy. 

granted those players are still developing (as is Rondo as evidenced by his continuous improvement in his jumper) but I don't see either of those guys as a #1 scorer, ever.  #2 scorers at most and neither is at that level yet.  Right now I don't see them as that much better than Jeff Green---maybe a bit more consistant.  if consistant equals better for you, fine they're better but their averages are pretty much equal. 

Rondo's a better overall player than either one of them.  I have no qualms with Rondo if he wants to ask to be paid more than them.  I don't think he's worth the max though for a player of his tenure but I do think he's not too far off-->2-3 mill per year less. 

Does that mesh with your opinion of him not being a 'max' player?  it would seem to on the face of things.  I can't imagine you think he's really worth less than either of those 2 players that are essentially overpaid Jeff Greens that haven't proven anything in the playoffs yet.

[mmmmm]

I think a more realistic scoring goal to hope for from Rondo would about 12 ppg.   While that may not sound super impressive, if it comes along with 9+ assists and 4+ rebounds per game, (which both seem very realistic for Rondo) the overall result ends up being extremely impressive.

but that isn't any where near a max contract player.

By who's definition?

You do understand that the number of people who have posted seasons like that is a very short list and of some pretty good players, right?   Aside from Rondo, 4 of the other 6 players who had done that since 2000 are are Chris Paul, Steve Nash, Jason Kidd and Deron Williams.  All 4 received a max contract in their careers.  Of the other two, Vasquez and Andre Miller only did it once.  Vasquez is still young, just off his rookie deal.

I suspect that GMs value players a little different than a lot of fans do.

You know what those other 4 players did/do that Rondo doesn't.  They shoot the ball very well from the outside.  They score points at a much great clip than Rondo.  They could all be a #1 or #2 scoring option.  Rondo isn't that guy.  I mean even Kidd could be that guy (Kidd is nearly 10% points higher on his career from 3 point range and over 15% from the line, and Kidd is the second worst shooter of that 5 man grouping). 

Rondo is not a max player because he can't be the best player on a championship team.  He could certainly be a second player on a title team with the right #1 guy, but I think he slots more realistically as a #3 player.  His skill set serves a complimentary role and as such he should be paid as a complimentary player, which I would peg in the 10-15 million range annually depending on how he looks this year (if he returns to form 15 million, if he doesn't something less).

So, basically, your definition of a max player (PG edition) is that they MUST be able to shoot threes?

Or is it that they MUST be "the best player on a championship team"?

Those aren't necessarily the same thing.

The latter itself of course, begs for definition.   Does your definition of "the best player on a championship team" require that they must be able to shoot threes?   Is that your basis for asserting that Rondo "can't be" that?   Pretty convenient logic there.

I'm not finding your definition here to be very compelling.  'Pretty sure there have been quite a few max contract players who couldn't shoot threes.  Also pretty sure that there have been quite a few max contract players who weren't "the best player on a championship team".

I'm going to bet that Danny (and most GMs) use a different definition.

So many logic leaps in your assessment, I don't know where to begin, but lets start with the obvious.  What separates those 4 max players from Rondo is their ability to score and shoot at a better than average rate.  Iverson, Westbrook, and Rose were (or are) also max contract players from the PG position, because they could/can score with the best of them and can be or were their teams go to player (despite not being the best from long range).  Rondo is not a #1 player and as such he should not be paid like he is one.  And contrary to Bill's continued assertions, Rondo was not the best player on the 2010 and 2011 teams, that was Paul Pierce (and Garnett was second).

Okay, so more specifically, your distinction is that a max player needs to take more shots than Rondo?

Because what the real distinctions are between Rondo and those other players is (a) He doesn't shoot 3s and (b) he shoots fewer shots overall.    He is, however, similarly effective at scoring points on the shots he does take.  He just doesn't take that many.

Of course, what might be more relevant for winning is how many shots (including 3s) and how well that the _team_ shoots as an effect of the player touching the ball.   But apparently that's not important for defining a 'max contract' player to you.

Fair enough.

And your personal opinion that Rondo was not the best player on the 2010 and 2011 teams is just fine.  Again, your opinion.

Again, though.  I suspect Danny won't use the same criteria you use to determine whether he is going to offer a max contract.

[Kadin]

If you can't be bothered to look, why should we be bothered to respond?

Here's a hint: Check the first post in the thread.

Gee thanks 

[Moranis]

*cough* Iverson was a shooting guard. *cough*

at times and at times he played PG, though his skill set certainly fits pretty closely with that of Rose and Westbrook.

[Moranis]

I think a more realistic scoring goal to hope for from Rondo would about 12 ppg.   While that may not sound super impressive, if it comes along with 9+ assists and 4+ rebounds per game, (which both seem very realistic for Rondo) the overall result ends up being extremely impressive.

but that isn't any where near a max contract player.

By who's definition?

You do understand that the number of people who have posted seasons like that is a very short list and of some pretty good players, right?   Aside from Rondo, 4 of the other 6 players who had done that since 2000 are are Chris Paul, Steve Nash, Jason Kidd and Deron Williams.  All 4 received a max contract in their careers.  Of the other two, Vasquez and Andre Miller only did it once.  Vasquez is still young, just off his rookie deal.

I suspect that GMs value players a little different than a lot of fans do.

You know what those other 4 players did/do that Rondo doesn't.  They shoot the ball very well from the outside.  They score points at a much great clip than Rondo.  They could all be a #1 or #2 scoring option.  Rondo isn't that guy.  I mean even Kidd could be that guy (Kidd is nearly 10% points higher on his career from 3 point range and over 15% from the line, and Kidd is the second worst shooter of that 5 man grouping). 

Rondo is not a max player because he can't be the best player on a championship team.  He could certainly be a second player on a title team with the right #1 guy, but I think he slots more realistically as a #3 player.  His skill set serves a complimentary role and as such he should be paid as a complimentary player, which I would peg in the 10-15 million range annually depending on how he looks this year (if he returns to form 15 million, if he doesn't something less).

You both have valid points.

I agree that I don't consider Rondo a 'max' player but that's strictly because of his shooting.  I do think he's reasonably close though based on everything else he does. 

Based on his full skill package and in light of what better-than-average players like Parsons and Hayward received this offseason, I think he could reasonably ask for 17-18 mill per year next year.

Yeah but Hayward and Parsons are younger players on the uptick that have shown solid improvement each year in the league.  They also both slot as potential #1 scorers.  Rondo is not that guy. 

granted those players are still developing (as is Rondo as evidenced by his continuous improvement in his jumper) but I don't see either of those guys as a #1 scorer, ever.  #2 scorers at most and neither is at that level yet.  Right now I don't see them as that much better than Jeff Green---maybe a bit more consistant.  if consistant equals better for you, fine they're better but their averages are pretty much equal. 

Rondo's a better overall player than either one of them.  I have no qualms with Rondo if he wants to ask to be paid more than them.  I don't think he's worth the max though for a player of his tenure but I do think he's not too far off-->2-3 mill per year less. 

Does that mesh with your opinion of him not being a 'max' player?  it would seem to on the face of things.  I can't imagine you think he's really worth less than either of those 2 players that are essentially overpaid Jeff Greens that haven't proven anything in the playoffs yet.

Parsons and Hayward didn't exactly sign max contracts though, which is sort of the point.  They are young guys who stats have steadily increased each year in the league.  Rondo's have gotten worse and Jeff Green has essentially been the same player his entire career.  One would expect both Parsons and Hayward to improve again, though maybe they are in fact at their peak, in which case their respective teams would have over paid.