Author Topic: Ainge terrible mistake of not choosing to Randle in the pick 6, incomprehensible  (Read 11409 times)

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Online Donoghus

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I'm interested to see how his game translates to the NBA where there will be actual big men in the paint defending him.

yup.

Big reason why he needs to develop that jumper.   Unless he wants to have about a 5 year career if he keeps driving the paint. 


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Offline NorthernLightning

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Smart's strength advantage at PG is like Shaq's strength advantage vs centers. Shaq might have been more pounds heavier than the other centers in the league, but % wise, Smart is just as physically dominant vs most PGs, and he doesn't carry the extra blubber that Shaq did.

The fact that Smart can guard PGs, and guard them at an elite level no less, is truly amazing.

Watching Smart bully a 190 lb pg is going to be like watching Shaq at 320 lbs bully a 260 lb center.

Smart's advantage vs shooting guards is smaller but still significant.

Rondo at PG, Smart posting up SGs, and Green, Sully, and KO on the perimeter. It's going to be sweet, and our offensive rebounding is going to be much better as well.

Randle is going to be a very good player, and an upgrade over Sully, but Smart is a significantly bigger upgrade over Bradley than Randle is over Sully or KO.

The Celtics just got significantly better, and our PG play is going to be the best in the league for 48 minutes.

And Smart is going to light a fire under Rondo, who is already highly motivated by being in a contract year and wanting to re-establish his status as an elite player.

No more lazy tuesday games in Charlotte from Rondo. Expect him to be on every night.


Offline twistedrico

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We have Sullinger, we don't need Randle.

Offline Boston Garden Leprechaun

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 I don?t understand, Julius Randle is one of the best players in this draft and Celtics pass?. I think him and Vonleh are best pf in this draft. Randle to Lakers (to the enemy).
For me a missed opportunity for Boston, Smart a great player but Randle seems to me better player with more conditions.

huh????  we already have THREE POWER FORWARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LET'S GO CELTICS!

Offline Boston Garden Leprechaun

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 I don?t understand, Julius Randle is one of the best players in this draft and Celtics pass?. I think him and Vonleh are best pf in this draft. Randle to Lakers (to the enemy).
For me a missed opportunity for Boston, Smart a great player but Randle seems to me better player with more conditions.

More conditions indeed...

1) Physcal condition (foot injury)
2) Mental condiction (arrogance)

Lets consider some points.

Randle declined the Celtics second workout.  His excuse was that he felt he had "already shown enough".   Who the hell does this guy think he is?  If I go to a job interview, and then they request for me to come to a second interview - am I going to say "forget it, I've already shown you enough"?  Hell no, that's a sure fire way to NOT get a job. 

Apparently after the Lakers selected Randle, he made a comment along the lines of "all the teams who passed on me are going to regret it". 

Really?? How arrogant is this kid?  This is the NBA, and he has proven NOTHING.  He's an undersized PF who is a horrendously poor defender, who can't hit a jumper, who has limited post moves, and can only score to one side.  Not exactly "mind blown" material.  He got through his entire college career by simply being bigger and stronger than everybody else he played against, and just bullying them around.  Can't wait until the first time he comes up against a "real" NBA big man and gets his butt handed to him on a platter.

But anyway, simple explanation.  Boston already has four PF's who are not rim protectors.  Randle is a Pf who is not a rim protector.  Question answered.

yup
LET'S GO CELTICS!

Offline Chris22

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Drafting Smart allows us to trade Rondo, which saves us $100 million dollars.

Offline Randy

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Drafting Smart allows us to trade Rondo, which saves us $100 million dollars.

Smart will never be the passer that Rondo is. We will end up giving Rondo 5 years $80M if he wants to stay, don't see the Celtics giving him a Deron Williams deal unless he comes out next year and has a amazing season and starts hitting jumpers and some 3's consistently.

Offline D.o.s.

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No way the C's give Rondo 5/$80 if he keeps playing the way he has been. That's just silly.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Offline AngryAndIrritable

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Randle is a one-dimensional undersized big man with a mouth that outweighs his talent. As soon as he matches up against a PF with a couple of inches height advantage and a little defensive grit he is going to be taken to the cleaners.

I might tune into a couple of Lakers games this season just to watch that car-crash.


Offline Sketch5

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I hope that when we play LA in La, Smart dunks right on Randle blowing out the screws in his foot.

It's what he should get for blowing off the second work out for a spread in GQ.  >:(

Offline D.o.s.

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 I don?t understand, Julius Randle is one of the best players in this draft and Celtics pass?. I think him and Vonleh are best pf in this draft. Randle to Lakers (to the enemy).
For me a missed opportunity for Boston, Smart a great player but Randle seems to me better player with more conditions.

Indeed. The pick is interesting, as it seems to reflect a belief on the part of ownership that the fans are going to be OK with a 5- to 10-year period of bad basketball, aka "rebuilding."

Let alone the barrage of rationalizations this board provides to cover ownership's tracks, as this thread evidences, that will buy them time while fans wax happily about bad seasons and dust off space in Springfield for the Orien Greenes and Gabe Pruitts who are on the way.

Randle would have helped immediately, for sure. The most NBA-ready player left on the board, plus he frees you to move Sullinger.

Instead, Ainge and Wyc opt for a project. Smart is a "me" player from a wildly-underachieving, badly coached "me" program whose coach barely survived the post-season ax. The thought of Smart and Rondo on the floor together must bring a smile - and a variety of zone packages - to the minds of every other coach in the league. An entire backcourt with no jump shot?

In fact, I'd assert that Young is more NBA ready today than Smart is. Brad Stevens has a tremendous job on his hands to rid Smart of the immaturity, the juvenile histrionics on the floor and teach him how to score the basketball from the perimeter - coach him, because Travis Ford certainly didn't. Let alone the anger management stuff.

It's sad, really. The rebuild should have begun in 2010, by drafting astutely and acquiring astutely the players who would be the foundation of the franchise when Garnett and Pierce were gone.  Master Po has been absolutely on point regarding Celtics management, and he gets a hat tip as I favored myself the "win immediatelY" mentality.

Now, it's clear that was wrong. Garnett and Pierce should have been surrounded by the future of the franchise, drafted and acquired carefully instead of the wild, wasted first round picks that are Ainge's hallmark. Anyone seriously think San Antonio won't put a good team on the floor when Tim Duncan retires? Of course they will.

Instead, it appears to me that the Pitino Era is at the door, trying to get in. Tragic, because those who hold the Celtics franchise have a sacred trust to respect its traditions. It should NEVER get this bad.

I was hoping to see what you had to say after we got Marcus Smart.

I was not disappointed.

At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Offline Tr1boy

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Randle not coming to the 2nd workout sealed the deal to pick Smart.

I like Randle but he started to act like he was a big deal

Vonleh had a bad attitude and just has a mediocre feel for game

Kind of bummed out still Gordon was not picked. Smart was a safe and good pick.  Might never be an all star but has a chance to make 2nd all defensive team , lead in steals and be in the league a long time

Offline Waew

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if we chose randle, lakers would have passed on smart and drafted mcdermott according to ESPNLA

Offline TheTruthFot18

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Randle has bust write all over him, he will be Benett 2.0
I am glad Ainge made the right choice, again

I wouldn't go that far since I wanted him here if Smart was gone but I do agree he has a higher chance of busting. I think Smart can be at best another Wade and at worst (surprise I haven't heard this one much) another Tyreke Evans.

Plus AB is not the long term answer at 2 and Smart can take a year developing that role. We now have everything but center locked so the pick was BPA and by need.
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Offline CM0

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 I don?t understand, Julius Randle is one of the best players in this draft and Celtics pass?. I think him and Vonleh are best pf in this draft. Randle to Lakers (to the enemy).
For me a missed opportunity for Boston, Smart a great player but Randle seems to me better player with more conditions.

Indeed. The pick is interesting, as it seems to reflect a belief on the part of ownership that the fans are going to be OK with a 5- to 10-year period of bad basketball, aka "rebuilding."

Let alone the barrage of rationalizations this board provides to cover ownership's tracks, as this thread evidences, that will buy them time while fans wax happily about bad seasons and dust off space in Springfield for the Orien Greenes and Gabe Pruitts who are on the way.

Randle would have helped immediately, for sure. The most NBA-ready player left on the board, plus he frees you to move Sullinger.

Instead, Ainge and Wyc opt for a project. Smart is a "me" player from a wildly-underachieving, badly coached "me" program whose coach barely survived the post-season ax. The thought of Smart and Rondo on the floor together must bring a smile - and a variety of zone packages - to the minds of every other coach in the league. An entire backcourt with no jump shot?

In fact, I'd assert that Young is more NBA ready today than Smart is. Brad Stevens has a tremendous job on his hands to rid Smart of the immaturity, the juvenile histrionics on the floor and teach him how to score the basketball from the perimeter - coach him, because Travis Ford certainly didn't. Let alone the anger management stuff.

It's sad, really. The rebuild should have begun in 2010, by drafting astutely and acquiring astutely the players who would be the foundation of the franchise when Garnett and Pierce were gone.  Master Po has been absolutely on point regarding Celtics management, and he gets a hat tip as I favored myself the "win immediatelY" mentality.

Now, it's clear that was wrong. Garnett and Pierce should have been surrounded by the future of the franchise, drafted and acquired carefully instead of the wild, wasted first round picks that are Ainge's hallmark. Anyone seriously think San Antonio won't put a good team on the floor when Tim Duncan retires? Of course they will.

Instead, it appears to me that the Pitino Era is at the door, trying to get in. Tragic, because those who hold the Celtics franchise have a sacred trust to respect its traditions. It should NEVER get this bad.

From deondraft:

"His easiest out is simply that his defense is an overstated issue.  But all signs point in the direction of it not being so.  His steal and block rates are exceptionally weak for a lottery PF prospect.  Also his team was not great defensively considering the size and athleticism they boasted, and they were not better with Randle on the floor (or so I have heard and instantly believed.  Anybody know where to find UK on/off splits?).  And, you can watch for yourself as Randle makes a gigantic pile of mistakes in a single game.  He often has no clue what is going on and stands there confused as his assignment waltzes right past him. That lack of mental acuity doesn?t strike me as something that is likely to go away, nor will it be mitigated with marginal improvement. On some plays he was so slow to react that it seems Tennessee could have scored twice before he figured out what was going on.  While not every game is as rife with mistakes as this one, similar errors did persist throughout the season and tournament.  When the eye test, individual stats, and team level performance all strongly suggest that he is bad at defense, the most Bayesian conclusion is that he is almost certainly bad at defense.

So now that we all agree he is bad defensively, how likely is he to elevate his instincts to a more competent level?  His main concern is that he is too slow to discern the offensive play unfolding before his eyes and sometimes fails to react until the ball is going through the net.  I believe this deficiency heavily prices into his low steal rate, as players often generate steals by anticipating what will happen in advance.  Layne Vashro made an excellent post about evaluating potential, and his statistical analysis on the growth of steal, block, and rebound rates is grim:

If we roll with the narrative that steals correlate with defensive awareness and instincts, Randle will almost certainly always have bad instincts. After all, it doesn?t make sense that a player may drastically improve his anticipation and awareness without seeing a bump in steal rate.  If increases in steal rate are outlier events, it logically follows that big increases in anticipation and instincts should be as well.  This would doom Randle defensively? if defensive instincts are barely more improvable than height or athleticism, then he is a stone cold lock to be a liability as an NBA player.

But to leave some margin for error: let?s be open minded and say that defensive instincts are as easily improved as the most readily improved skill: shooting (at least I assume this is the case, if there is evidence to the contrary I would appreciate hearing about it). Everybody makes a big deal about Marcus Smart?s shooting ability being a damper on his draft stock, but he isn?t even the worst shooter among guards in the draft. He made 30% of his 3′s and 75% of his FT?s in college. Imagine instead that he made 25% of 3′s and 50% of FT?s? would anybody still want to draft him in the lottery? It would likely be perceived as an insurmountable wart that distracts from every good aspect Smart brings to the table. While it is impossible to equate Randle?s defensive badness to shooting percentages, he is the worst defensive player among big man prospects in the draft. Even in the most impossibly optimistic scenario that defensive instincts can improve as much as shooting, Randle?s defense should still be perceived as an exceptionally costly wart. This perception only fails to be widespread because of visibility bias. When casual fans watch a game, they notice every missed or made shot and normally none of the defensive lapses. Further, this enables season by season tracking of shooting percentages that are not available for defensive acumen.

Consider:
1) Julius Randle?s defense is worse relative to his peers than Marcus Smart?s shooting
2) Shooting is likely more readily improvable than defense, and possibly by a large margin
3) In the instance that neither player drastically improves their wart, Smart has a much rosier upside comparison among a player who shares the wart with similar strengths (Dwyane Wade) than Randle (Luis Scola, David Lee)."

Source: http://deanondraft.com/2014/04/25/visibility-bias-and-julius-randles-defense/