Phili is way ahead of us on the rebuild

[CoachBo]

I'm very jealous of philly fans. That team has the potential to be dominant.  They have reason for hope. Right now, we don't.  But who knows what might happen in 5 years after several trips to the lotto.  We could get lucky.

Wrong pronoun.

  Exactly.

Lol... I mean... Celtics18 thought we were a contender last year.  I don't doubt that he has big dreams. I was talking about everyone else. Right now we look like a 25-35 win team barring a miracle move. We might work our way up to playoff status.

The thing about Philly is, they have 3-4 guys on their team who could be franchise players. Two of them are bigs.  They will be terrible short-term, but their entire fanbase has reason to dream big... Not just the blind optimist minority

No I didn't. 

Who are Philly's three to four franchise players?  Embiid, Noel, Carter-Williams, and Thaddeus Young?

I understand that pessimism is your bag, and I admit that optimism is mine.  While we are in the business of mocking each other for our respective stances, though, I find it ironic that you spent all of last off-season and most of the regular season saying there were 6 or 7 "franchise players" in this draft. 

Of course, now that we just drafted one of those players, you are convinced that the one we got is going to be a bum.

Classic.

Truer words were never spoken than the bolded. Wyc will take your credit card number or your check personally, I suspect.

[Celtics18]

I'm very jealous of philly fans. That team has the potential to be dominant.  They have reason for hope. Right now, we don't.  But who knows what might happen in 5 years after several trips to the lotto.  We could get lucky.

Wrong pronoun.

  Exactly.

Lol... I mean... Celtics18 thought we were a contender last year.  I don't doubt that he has big dreams. I was talking about everyone else. Right now we look like a 25-35 win team barring a miracle move. We might work our way up to playoff status.

The thing about Philly is, they have 3-4 guys on their team who could be franchise players. Two of them are bigs.  They will be terrible short-term, but their entire fanbase has reason to dream big... Not just the blind optimist minority

No I didn't. 

Who are Philly's three to four franchise players?  Embiid, Noel, Carter-Williams, and Thaddeus Young?

I understand that pessimism is your bag, and I admit that optimism is mine.  While we are in the business of mocking each other for our respective stances, though, I find it ironic that you spent all of last off-season and most of the regular season saying there were 6 or 7 "franchise players" in this draft. 

Of course, now that we just drafted one of those players, you are convinced that the one we got is going to be a bum.

Classic.

Smart might have all-star potential. I'd rather have smart than not have smart. A team complete barren of assets can use every quality player they can get.

Still... Noel and embiid might be guys you can build a contender around ... Saric might end up better than smart ... Mcw is the reigning rookie of the year.  Plus they will bottom out next year as well and add another top 5 pick. 

I'm jealous of philly fans.  I do think we will be better than them next year though.

Excellent use of pronoun.  You got it right that time. 

[mr. dee]

Never count chickens until they hatched.

What if their top prospects never panned out? What if Noel and Embiid have Greg Oden written over them. They'll just end up being the Blazers 2.0, where the stars never had the chance to play healthy together.

I remember the hype that surround Ricky Rubio and the Timberwolves like he is locked in to be an all-star player. I can see the same possibility when Saric finally come to play in the league.

Philly is taking a huge risk especially in the sales department. I can't believe they can stomach watching their arena with empty seats but I admire the fans for being patient unlike many of the posters here who would trade their best assets for a glass of kool aid.

I like the direction Danny is taking.

[Celtics18]

No I didn't. 

Who are Philly's three to four franchise players?  Embiid, Noel, Carter-Williams, and Thaddeus Young?

I understand that pessimism is your bag, and I admit that optimism is mine.  While we are in the business of mocking each other for our respective stances, though, I find it ironic that you spent all of last off-season and most of the regular season saying there were 6 or 7 "franchise players" in this draft. 

Of course, now that we just drafted one of those players, you are convinced that the one we got is going to be a bum.

Classic.

Truer words were never spoken than the bolded. Wyc will take your credit card number or your check personally, I suspect.

Wyc can have both my credit card number and my check book.  He won't get much blood from this stone. 

Maybe he should be paying me, though, for all the campaigning I do for his business.  Fat chance of that, I suspect. 

[rondohondo]

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:11143952

Chad Ford said it best , Phi is 2 years away from being 2 years away ....

[Neurotic Guy]

To some extent, I agree with the OP.  Embiid/Saric would have been an ideal draft for the C's at 6/17, but I do have to say that Philly gambled at 3/10.  Passing on Exum at 3 was pretty gutsy and may turn out to be regretable.   At 10, Philly also had a number of solid prospects and were willing to go for '2 birds in the bush' as opposed to one in hand by selecting Saric.   Overall, I'd say Philly is ahead of Boston in terms of future value, but lots can happen between now and 2016 (or so) to change the current course.  I wouldn't trade the C's management -- Brad, Danny, Wyc & Co. for anything; I think all things being relatively equal,  Boston is a more desirable NBA FA destination than Philly; I also think the C's future draft assetts represent  substantial future value.   All in all, I think I'd rather be sitting with Philly's roster at the moment, but I'm definitely not certain that Philly is way ahead on the rebuild when everything is considered.

[LarBrd33]

I think you misunderstand my point.

Is it impossible for Boston to become a contender ?  Of course not.  Is it possible Ainge has some further moves up his sleeve?  Absolutely.  Is it possible Marcus smart reaches his Eric Bledsoe ceiling ?  No doubt.  Could embiid and Noel both bust ?  Maybe.

But right now if you were to project Philly's future vs Boston's, it's a no contest.  We have a veteran former all-star PG possibly on the way out.  We have a solid asset in Marcus smart.  Beyond that we have role player talent and some picks that nobody can confidently project.

Philly, on the other hand, has a player the most project will be an elite defensive big (Noel), a player most project has transcendent superstar potential (embiid), a young PG who is coming off a rookie of the year season,  and a foreign prospect that people rave about (Saric)... Plus a trajectory that makes them seem like a lock to bottom out again next year ... Plus several other picks that nobody can confidently project.

Anything can happen. But right now I think most reasonable NBA fans would rather have Philly's assets than Boston's assets.  Pose the question on a neutral forum and see for yourself. 

Does it make me a bad person that I admit Philly has a better projected future?  Nope. Tanking was the right move. Marcus smart should be a nice piece.  I'd rather have him than not have him. That doesn't change the fact that Philly has more pieces on the board right now.

[Celtics18]

I think you misunderstand my point.

Is it impossible for Boston to become a contender ?  Of course not.  Is it possible Ainge has some further moves up his sleeve?  Absolutely.  Is it possible Marcus smart reaches his Eric Bledsoe ceiling ?  No doubt.  Could embiid and Noel both bust ?  Maybe.

But right now if you were to project Philly's future vs Boston's, it's a no contest.  We have a veteran former all-star PG possibly on the way out.  We have a solid asset in Marcus smart.  Beyond that we have role player talent and some picks that nobody can confidently project.

Philly, on the other hand, has a player the most project will be an elite defensive big (Noel), a player most project has transcendent superstar potential (embiid), a young PG who is coming off a rookie of the year season,  and a foreign prospect that people rave about (Saric)... Plus a trajectory that makes them seem like a lock to bottom out again next year ... Plus several other picks that nobody can confidently project.

Anything can happen. But right now I think most reasonable NBA fans would rather have Philly's assets than Boston's assets.  Pose the question on a neutral forum and see for yourself. 

Does it make me a bad person that I admit Philly has a better future?  Nope. Tanking was the right move. Marcus smart should be a nice piece.  I'd rather have him than not have him. That doesn't change the fact that Philly has more pieces on the board right now.

I didn't misunderstand your point.  You are entitled to your opinion.  I just didn't like the fact that you presented your opinion as if you were speaking for the entire fan base. 

Call me nit-picky about pronouns. 

[Celtics4ever]

They have been rebuilding for a lot longer too.   It would be normal for them to be ahead.  They have stunk since AI left and some while he was there.

[LarBrd33]

I think you misunderstand my point.

Is it impossible for Boston to become a contender ?  Of course not.  Is it possible Ainge has some further moves up his sleeve?  Absolutely.  Is it possible Marcus smart reaches his Eric Bledsoe ceiling ?  No doubt.  Could embiid and Noel both bust ?  Maybe.

But right now if you were to project Philly's future vs Boston's, it's a no contest.  We have a veteran former all-star PG possibly on the way out.  We have a solid asset in Marcus smart.  Beyond that we have role player talent and some picks that nobody can confidently project.

Philly, on the other hand, has a player the most project will be an elite defensive big (Noel), a player most project has transcendent superstar potential (embiid), a young PG who is coming off a rookie of the year season,  and a foreign prospect that people rave about (Saric)... Plus a trajectory that makes them seem like a lock to bottom out again next year ... Plus several other picks that nobody can confidently project.

Anything can happen. But right now I think most reasonable NBA fans would rather have Philly's assets than Boston's assets.  Pose the question on a neutral forum and see for yourself. 

Does it make me a bad person that I admit Philly has a better future?  Nope. Tanking was the right move. Marcus smart should be a nice piece.  I'd rather have him than not have him. That doesn't change the fact that Philly has more pieces on the board right now.

I didn't misunderstand your point.  You are entitled to your opinion.  I just didn't like the fact that you presented your opinion as if you were speaking for the entire fan base. 

Call me nit-picky about pronouns.

When I say "we", I'm referring to myself and the voices arguing in my head. Don't take it personally.

[dreamgreen]

I would disagree, IMO until their draft picks and Noel prove otherwise, they are behind us.

[BballTim]

I'm very jealous of philly fans. That team has the potential to be dominant.  They have reason for hope. Right now, we don't.  But who knows what might happen in 5 years after several trips to the lotto.  We could get lucky.

Wrong pronoun.

  Exactly.

Lol... I mean... Celtics18 thought we were a contender last year.  I don't doubt that he has big dreams. I was talking about everyone else. Right now we look like a 25-35 win team barring a miracle move. We might work our way up to playoff status.

The thing about Philly is, they have 3-4 guys on their team who could be franchise players. Two of them are bigs.  They will be terrible short-term, but their entire fanbase has reason to dream big... Not just the blind optimist minority

No I didn't. 

Who are Philly's three to four franchise players?  Embiid, Noel, Carter-Williams, and Thaddeus Young?

I understand that pessimism is your bag, and I admit that optimism is mine.  While we are in the business of mocking each other for our respective stances, though, I find it ironic that you spent all of last off-season and most of the regular season saying there were 6 or 7 "franchise players" in this draft. 

Of course, now that we just drafted one of those players, you are convinced that the one we got is going to be a bum.

Classic.

Smart might have all-star potential. I'd rather have smart than not have smart. A team complete barren of assets can use every quality player they can get.

Still... Noel and embiid might be guys you can build a contender around ... Saric might end up better than smart ... Mcw is the reigning rookie of the year.  Plus they will bottom out next year as well and add another top 5 pick. 

I'm jealous of philly fans.  I do think we will be better than them next year though.

  You seem to waffle back and forth between not following college ball at all to being an expert on how well players who have never played in the nba will fare in the league. You spent much of the season touting all the franchise cornerstones in the draft and after we get one you're asking people why you should be so excited about him. Hilarious.

[td450]

This all boils down to one question: Will Embiid become a dominant superstar? If yes, then that trumps anything else. If no, then our stock of draft choices, and our other financial assets are worth more than he is.

We have 5/6 extra 1st rounders over the next several years. Philly is down 2 first rounders.

Minus Embiid, I'd say the two franchises both have about the same level of undeveloped talent. Plus we have some real players right now, and a coach we can build around.

[BballTim]

I think you misunderstand my point.

Is it impossible for Boston to become a contender ?  Of course not.  Is it possible Ainge has some further moves up his sleeve?  Absolutely.  Is it possible Marcus smart reaches his Eric Bledsoe ceiling ?  No doubt.  Could embiid and Noel both bust ?  Maybe.

But right now if you were to project Philly's future vs Boston's, it's a no contest.  We have a veteran former all-star PG possibly on the way out.  We have a solid asset in Marcus smart.  Beyond that we have role player talent and some picks that nobody can confidently project.

Philly, on the other hand, has a player the most project will be an elite defensive big (Noel), a player most project has transcendent superstar potential (embiid), a young PG who is coming off a rookie of the year season,  and a foreign prospect that people rave about (Saric)... Plus a trajectory that makes them seem like a lock to bottom out again next year ... Plus several other picks that nobody can confidently project.

Anything can happen. But right now I think most reasonable NBA fans would rather have Philly's assets than Boston's assets.  Pose the question on a neutral forum and see for yourself. 

  It probably comes down to how closely they follow the league. I'd guess you're unaware of the difference in assets going forward. Boston has 7-8 first rounders in the next 4 drafts and can swap picks with the Nets in another year. Philly has 2-3 first rounders in the next 4 years. The have a rookie pg that they were reportedly shopping because they were worried he was a "put up big numbers on a bad team" type of player, They have a rookie big who's not much of an offensive player who's coming back from knee injury and another rookie big (the only player on their roster that could realistically be called a franchise player) who's already suffered two troubling injuries (back and feet) and hasn't played a game in the pros yet. It's easy to get caught up in the hype of other teams (as you're wont to do) but the odds of them having a better future than us probably begin and end with Embiid having an injury free superstar career or adding a similar player that's not on their roster now.


 

[CoachBo]

I think you misunderstand my point.

Is it impossible for Boston to become a contender ?  Of course not.  Is it possible Ainge has some further moves up his sleeve?  Absolutely.  Is it possible Marcus smart reaches his Eric Bledsoe ceiling ?  No doubt.  Could embiid and Noel both bust ?  Maybe.

But right now if you were to project Philly's future vs Boston's, it's a no contest.  We have a veteran former all-star PG possibly on the way out.  We have a solid asset in Marcus smart.  Beyond that we have role player talent and some picks that nobody can confidently project.

Philly, on the other hand, has a player the most project will be an elite defensive big (Noel), a player most project has transcendent superstar potential (embiid), a young PG who is coming off a rookie of the year season,  and a foreign prospect that people rave about (Saric)... Plus a trajectory that makes them seem like a lock to bottom out again next year ... Plus several other picks that nobody can confidently project.

Anything can happen. But right now I think most reasonable NBA fans would rather have Philly's assets than Boston's assets.  Pose the question on a neutral forum and see for yourself. 

  It probably comes down to how closely they follow the league. I'd guess you're unaware of the difference in assets going forward. Boston has 7-8 first rounders in the next 4 drafts and can swap picks with the Nets in another year. Philly has 2-3 first rounders in the next 4 years. The have a rookie pg that they were reportedly shopping because they were worried he was a "put up big numbers on a bad team" type of player, They have a rookie big who's not much of an offensive player who's coming back from knee injury and another rookie big (the only player on their roster that could realistically be called a franchise player) who's already suffered two troubling injuries (back and feet) and hasn't played a game in the pros yet. It's easy to get caught up in the hype of other teams (as you're wont to do) but the odds of them having a better future than us probably begin and end with Embiid having an injury free superstar career or adding a similar player that's not on their roster now.


 

I guess that in your haste to argue and distort 33's point, you missed the two words in bold, Timmy.

And he happens to be right. Sure doesn't appear to be anyone else in the league enamored with "assets," but there sure doesn't appear to be any other GM in the league as enamored with Rondo as you are, either.

With one caveat to 33: I disagree with him on one point. After speaking with a former Oklahoma State player, I'd rather not have Marcus Smart than have him. God bless Brad Stevens. He is going to earn his money trying to straighten this kid out.

With this additional point: Given Ainge's draft record, characterizing those picks as assets is, at best, optimistic. Marking down the possession of draft choices as certain positive elements of the future for a GM who has picked Fab Melo, JR Giddens, JJ Johnson, et al. - and who couldn't find any takers for a lottery pick this year - is, to be as kind as I can, a humorous leap of faith.

Doesn't appear at this point that Flip Saunders is too impressed with them either, does it? Didn't see anyone lining up to trade for them this month, either.

Ah, CelticsBlog: Where "assets" are overvalued. Reality is going to be a tough thing around here. Soon.

Right now - there are those words again you ignored - it appears clear that it's going to get worse - MUCH WORSE - before it gets better. How ironic that a retrospective on Pitino's first draft aired last week. Ironic, indeed.