Phili is way ahead of us on the rebuild

[hpantazo]

there is a lot of bias in many of these responses, mainly stating that we have Rondo who is so much better than anything Phili has. Well, Rondo is in his prime years, coming off major knee surgery, and looked like crap last season. He will also leave or be traded for 10 cents on the dollar if we don't get some star vets this summer, so no, we don't have the superstar long term cornerstone many of you are implying. That's fan fiction, green tinted view. We have that superstar Rondo basically the same way the Timberwolves have Kevin Love, except that Love is younger and healthier and better so he gets more in return for a trade.

The other consistent response is to crap all over Embiid and Noel for not playing an NBA game yet and having injuries. This is another biased, one sided argument. Many people on here really wanted Embiid to fall to us. The perspectives massively shifted once Phili took him. Even Ainge admitted on the radio that he would have taken Embiid at 6, and the celtics doctors did not red-flag him as a major injury risk. Noel had the same injury Rondo had, so if he's washed up at 19 then Rondo is totally worthless at his age coming off the same injury, and so is Westbrook. As for not having played in the NBA yet, neither has Smart, yet you guys are calling him a future all-star. Let's face it, if we had Noel and Embiid, and Saric, the tone on here for those guys would be totally different. Most fans would be ecstatic.

  Why start the thread in the first place if you're going to get so upset when people disagree with you? If you can show us some quotes from Rondo or his camp  stating that he'll leave if certain conditions aren't met then you might have something with the "fan fiction" quip. Otherwise it's just wishful thinking on your part.

I'm not upset dude, just stating my thoughts. I think it's pretty clear that Rondo is gone if we don't get some star vets around him this summer. Ainge tried, and will keep trying, but nothing is guaranteed. The rest of the core without Rondo is pretty mediocre imo.

  It's not clear at all. If Danny wants to keep Rondo and add talent around him he probably has until next summer. At minimum he has until the trade deadline to decide.

I dissagree. It's the same as Love's situation. The longer we keep Rondo the less we can get in return for him in a trade if we can't get the talent around him to keep him. This summer is it imo. He's not going to re-sign in most places, so teams aren't going to pay a lot for half a season of Rondo when they can just sign him in a few months anyway.

On Rondo's side, he's not getting any younger. He would never stay for a long rebuild with these rookies with a slim hope of competing when he's in his mid 30's.

  I'm not sure why you don't understand that there's a difference between  "I'm leaving when my contract is up" and "why would I leave Boston?". But there's no point in discussing the point if that's the case.

I get that you don't want to see Rondo go, I would love to have him here for the rest of his career as well, I'm just being realistic. Rondo himself has said this summer that he wants to win now, and wants Ainge to bring in guys that want to win now and compete hard like him. He has in no way stated that he will not leave Boston. He has been noncommittal but basically says repeatedly he would like to stay but he wants to win, which equals "get some good vets here or else I'm leaving'. He also did flat out state that he wants to be an unrestricted free agent and wants to experience being courted by other teams. It's common sense that if we don't bring in some great vets and instead go with rookies and second year players, then we are going to move Rondo. I still have some faith that Ainge can pull off a few deals this summer to cash in on our assets though.

  He hasn't really been non-committal. He's talked about staying multiple times. It's not a guarantee, but his wanting to win is far from the ultimatum you claim it is.

I never claimed any ultimatum, but he has never stated that he's staying through a rebuild as you claim. You can see only what you want to see, but things will happen this summer to settle the direction of the team one way or another.

[LarBrd33]

I'm very jealous of philly fans. That team has the potential to be dominant.  They have reason for hope. Right now, we don't.  But who knows what might happen in 5 years after several trips to the lotto.  We could get lucky.

[Celtics18]

I'm very jealous of philly fans. That team has the potential to be dominant.  They have reason for hope. Right now, we don't.  But who knows what might happen in 5 years after several trips to the lotto.  We could get lucky.

Wrong pronoun.

[Eja117]

First off, I love the picks of Smart and Young, both excellent choices who will be very good players. Looking at Phili's haul this year and last though, they are way ahead of us on building a contender. They have MCW, although not as good as Rondo, he is last year's rookie of the year who is also not hitting 30 and looking to leave if his team doesn't put vet stars around him.

Then the centerpieces of their rebuild, the twin towers of Embiid and Noel. What an awesome foundation to build around. We haven't been able to land a decent center for years and they have two of the best young centers in the league. Much better than the combo of Sully and KO in my opinion.

Next is Saric. Sure, he won't be in the league for 1-2 years, but he could be the most talented player to come out of this draft. He is at least likely to equal Smart, if not surpass him.

To top it off, with Embiid needing recovery time and Saric in Turkey, they will get another top 5 pick next year.

I'm not panicing, Ainge still has assets and the offseason is still young, so he may make some big moves, but I'm envying Phili's roster right now.

This. Plus they have other assets too.  I still don't believe tanking works.

[BballTim]

I'm very jealous of philly fans. That team has the potential to be dominant.  They have reason for hope. Right now, we don't.  But who knows what might happen in 5 years after several trips to the lotto.  We could get lucky.

Wrong pronoun.

  Exactly.

[LarBrd33]

I'm very jealous of philly fans. That team has the potential to be dominant.  They have reason for hope. Right now, we don't.  But who knows what might happen in 5 years after several trips to the lotto.  We could get lucky.

Wrong pronoun.

  Exactly.

Lol... I mean... Celtics18 thought we were a contender last year.  I don't doubt that he has big dreams. I was talking about everyone else. Right now we look like a 25-35 win team barring a miracle move. We might work our way up to playoff status.

The thing about Philly is, they have 3-4 guys on their team who could be franchise players. Two of them are bigs.  They will be terrible short-term, but their entire fanbase has reason to dream big... Not just the blind optimist minority

[BballTim]

there is a lot of bias in many of these responses, mainly stating that we have Rondo who is so much better than anything Phili has. Well, Rondo is in his prime years, coming off major knee surgery, and looked like crap last season. He will also leave or be traded for 10 cents on the dollar if we don't get some star vets this summer, so no, we don't have the superstar long term cornerstone many of you are implying. That's fan fiction, green tinted view. We have that superstar Rondo basically the same way the Timberwolves have Kevin Love, except that Love is younger and healthier and better so he gets more in return for a trade.

The other consistent response is to crap all over Embiid and Noel for not playing an NBA game yet and having injuries. This is another biased, one sided argument. Many people on here really wanted Embiid to fall to us. The perspectives massively shifted once Phili took him. Even Ainge admitted on the radio that he would have taken Embiid at 6, and the celtics doctors did not red-flag him as a major injury risk. Noel had the same injury Rondo had, so if he's washed up at 19 then Rondo is totally worthless at his age coming off the same injury, and so is Westbrook. As for not having played in the NBA yet, neither has Smart, yet you guys are calling him a future all-star. Let's face it, if we had Noel and Embiid, and Saric, the tone on here for those guys would be totally different. Most fans would be ecstatic.

  Why start the thread in the first place if you're going to get so upset when people disagree with you? If you can show us some quotes from Rondo or his camp  stating that he'll leave if certain conditions aren't met then you might have something with the "fan fiction" quip. Otherwise it's just wishful thinking on your part.

I'm not upset dude, just stating my thoughts. I think it's pretty clear that Rondo is gone if we don't get some star vets around him this summer. Ainge tried, and will keep trying, but nothing is guaranteed. The rest of the core without Rondo is pretty mediocre imo.

  It's not clear at all. If Danny wants to keep Rondo and add talent around him he probably has until next summer. At minimum he has until the trade deadline to decide.

I dissagree. It's the same as Love's situation. The longer we keep Rondo the less we can get in return for him in a trade if we can't get the talent around him to keep him. This summer is it imo. He's not going to re-sign in most places, so teams aren't going to pay a lot for half a season of Rondo when they can just sign him in a few months anyway.

On Rondo's side, he's not getting any younger. He would never stay for a long rebuild with these rookies with a slim hope of competing when he's in his mid 30's.

  I'm not sure why you don't understand that there's a difference between  "I'm leaving when my contract is up" and "why would I leave Boston?". But there's no point in discussing the point if that's the case.

I get that you don't want to see Rondo go, I would love to have him here for the rest of his career as well, I'm just being realistic. Rondo himself has said this summer that he wants to win now, and wants Ainge to bring in guys that want to win now and compete hard like him. He has in no way stated that he will not leave Boston. He has been noncommittal but basically says repeatedly he would like to stay but he wants to win, which equals "get some good vets here or else I'm leaving'. He also did flat out state that he wants to be an unrestricted free agent and wants to experience being courted by other teams. It's common sense that if we don't bring in some great vets and instead go with rookies and second year players, then we are going to move Rondo. I still have some faith that Ainge can pull off a few deals this summer to cash in on our assets though.

  He hasn't really been non-committal. He's talked about staying multiple times. It's not a guarantee, but his wanting to win is far from the ultimatum you claim it is.

I never claimed any ultimatum, but he has never stated that he's staying through a rebuild as you claim. You can see only what you want to see, but things will happen this summer to settle the direction of the team one way or another.

  He pretty much has, here's a link to one of his comments but I've seen him say similar things on tv.

  http://espn.go.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/9796290/rajon-rondo-not-looking-leave-boston-celtics-rebuilding-period

[Smokeeye123]

I'm very jealous of philly fans. That team has the potential to be dominant.  They have reason for hope. Right now, we don't.  But who knows what might happen in 5 years after several trips to the lotto.  We could get lucky.

Read this and you wouldnt think so.  http://www.csnphilly.com/blog/700-level/worst-draft-human-history

It's a joke how dumb this reporter is. "Durrrr why we no win now?"

[BballTim]

I'm very jealous of philly fans. That team has the potential to be dominant.  They have reason for hope. Right now, we don't.  But who knows what might happen in 5 years after several trips to the lotto.  We could get lucky.

Wrong pronoun.

  Exactly.

Lol... I mean... Celtics18 thought we were a contender last year.  I don't doubt that he has big dreams. I was talking about everyone else. Right now we look like a 25-35 win team barring a miracle move. We might work our way up to playoff status.

  I doubt he said we were going to contend last year. But even if he did, that wouldn't be much less accurate than your appraisal of the Dwight/Kobe juggernaut of the West. I'm not sure how being overly optimistic about other teams is somehow a superior tack to take.

[BballTim]

I'm very jealous of philly fans. That team has the potential to be dominant.  They have reason for hope. Right now, we don't.  But who knows what might happen in 5 years after several trips to the lotto.  We could get lucky.

Wrong pronoun.

  Exactly.

Lol... I mean... Celtics18 thought we were a contender last year.  I don't doubt that he has big dreams. I was talking about everyone else. Right now we look like a 25-35 win team barring a miracle move. We might work our way up to playoff status.

  I doubt he said we were going to contend last year. But even if he did, that wouldn't be much less accurate than your appraisal of the Dwight/Kobe juggernaut of the West. I'm not sure how being overly optimistic about other teams is somehow a superior tack to take.

[gpap]

I disagree with the premise of this post.

Philly is taking "the long way" and I really hate that.

[Celtics18]

I'm very jealous of philly fans. That team has the potential to be dominant.  They have reason for hope. Right now, we don't.  But who knows what might happen in 5 years after several trips to the lotto.  We could get lucky.

Wrong pronoun.

  Exactly.

Lol... I mean... Celtics18 thought we were a contender last year.  I don't doubt that he has big dreams. I was talking about everyone else. Right now we look like a 25-35 win team barring a miracle move. We might work our way up to playoff status.

The thing about Philly is, they have 3-4 guys on their team who could be franchise players. Two of them are bigs.  They will be terrible short-term, but their entire fanbase has reason to dream big... Not just the blind optimist minority

No I didn't. 

Who are Philly's three to four franchise players?  Embiid, Noel, Carter-Williams, and Thaddeus Young?

I understand that pessimism is your bag, and I admit that optimism is mine.  While we are in the business of mocking each other for our respective stances, though, I find it ironic that you spent all of last off-season and most of the regular season saying there were 6 or 7 "franchise players" in this draft. 

Of course, now that we just drafted one of those players, you are convinced that the one we got is going to be a bum.

Classic.

[notthebowler]

I'm very jealous of philly fans. That team has the potential to be dominant.  They have reason for hope. Right now, we don't.  But who knows what might happen in 5 years after several trips to the lotto.  We could get lucky.

Wrong pronoun.

  Exactly.

Lol... I mean... Celtics18 thought we were a contender last year.  I don't doubt that he has big dreams. I was talking about everyone else. Right now we look like a 25-35 win team barring a miracle move. We might work our way up to playoff status.

The thing about Philly is, they have 3-4 guys on their team who could be franchise players. Two of them are bigs.  They will be terrible short-term, but their entire fanbase has reason to dream big... Not just the blind optimist minority

Boy, I certainly don't envy Philly fans.  In 4 or 5 years if every one of their young guys lives up to his potential, maybe then I will.  But in basketball terms that is a long way off, and if I was a betting man, my money would be on most of their picks being solid-to-good role players at best.

Embiid is a potential franchise player.  Not sure who the other 2-3 are on that roster.  MCW had a good rookie season but he is nowhere near a franchise player.  Noel is not a franchise player.  A skinny Theo Ratliff is not going to carry anyone to a title. 

Their next 10 years is more likely to mirror the last 10 years of the Kings than the last 10 of the Spurs.

[CoachBo]

there is a lot of bias in many of these responses, mainly stating that we have Rondo who is so much better than anything Phili has. Well, Rondo is in his prime years, coming off major knee surgery, and looked like crap last season. He will also leave or be traded for 10 cents on the dollar if we don't get some star vets this summer, so no, we don't have the superstar long term cornerstone many of you are implying. That's fan fiction, green tinted view. We have that superstar Rondo basically the same way the Timberwolves have Kevin Love, except that Love is younger and healthier and better so he gets more in return for a trade.

The other consistent response is to crap all over Embiid and Noel for not playing an NBA game yet and having injuries. This is another biased, one sided argument. Many people on here really wanted Embiid to fall to us. The perspectives massively shifted once Phili took him. Even Ainge admitted on the radio that he would have taken Embiid at 6, and the celtics doctors did not red-flag him as a major injury risk. Noel had the same injury Rondo had, so if he's washed up at 19 then Rondo is totally worthless at his age coming off the same injury, and so is Westbrook. As for not having played in the NBA yet, neither has Smart, yet you guys are calling him a future all-star. Let's face it, if we had Noel and Embiid, and Saric, the tone on here for those guys would be totally different. Most fans would be ecstatic.

As for calling Sullinger, KO, and Bradley 'future all-stars', that is absurd.

I trust Ainge, and he's done a great job in getting us a ton of assets to rebuild from the big 3 era. But, let's be realistic. If he doesn't manage to cash in on those assets this summer to land 2 more all-stars to put around Rondo, and a defensive big man, then Rondo will leave. We are not getting an all-star or a great young prospect for Rondo in a trade. The league has been waiting for us to trade him for cheap because they know that we have to or he will walk next summer. Assuming we don't cash in on those assets, Smart, Sullinger, KO, and Young, and maybe Bradley if we keep him, are not a great core going forward. They are ok. It will be a long rebuild. I would much rather have Embiid, Noel, Saric, MCW, and a top 5 pick in the next draft. That is a faster rebuild than Sullinger, Smart, KO, Bradley, Young, and some late 1sts from the clippers and Nets.

Co-sign. I'd trade our roster today for Phillys in a nanosecond.

And y'all ought to try talking to someone close to the current mess that is the Oklahoma State program, who played with Tony Allen and observed Smart - and describes both of them at those points as "children."

Rick Pitino has walked through that door ...

[LarBrd33]

I'm very jealous of philly fans. That team has the potential to be dominant.  They have reason for hope. Right now, we don't.  But who knows what might happen in 5 years after several trips to the lotto.  We could get lucky.

Wrong pronoun.

  Exactly.

Lol... I mean... Celtics18 thought we were a contender last year.  I don't doubt that he has big dreams. I was talking about everyone else. Right now we look like a 25-35 win team barring a miracle move. We might work our way up to playoff status.

The thing about Philly is, they have 3-4 guys on their team who could be franchise players. Two of them are bigs.  They will be terrible short-term, but their entire fanbase has reason to dream big... Not just the blind optimist minority

No I didn't. 

Who are Philly's three to four franchise players?  Embiid, Noel, Carter-Williams, and Thaddeus Young?

I understand that pessimism is your bag, and I admit that optimism is mine.  While we are in the business of mocking each other for our respective stances, though, I find it ironic that you spent all of last off-season and most of the regular season saying there were 6 or 7 "franchise players" in this draft. 

Of course, now that we just drafted one of those players, you are convinced that the one we got is going to be a bum.

Classic.

Smart might have all-star potential. I'd rather have smart than not have smart. A team complete barren of assets can use every quality player they can get.

Still... Noel and embiid might be guys you can build a contender around ... Saric might end up better than smart ... Mcw is the reigning rookie of the year.  Plus they will bottom out next year as well and add another top 5 pick. 

I'm jealous of philly fans.  I do think we will be better than them next year though.