Phili is way ahead of us on the rebuild

[CM0]

First off, I love the picks of Smart and Young, both excellent choices who will be very good players. Looking at Phili's haul this year and last though, they are way ahead of us on building a contender. They have MCW, although not as good as Rondo, he is last year's rookie of the year who is also not hitting 30 and looking to leave if his team doesn't put vet stars around him.

Then the centerpieces of their rebuild, the twin towers of Embiid and Noel. What an awesome foundation to build around. We haven't been able to land a decent center for years and they have two of the best young centers in the league. Much better than the combo of Sully and KO in my opinion.

Next is Saric. Sure, he won't be in the league for 1-2 years, but he could be the most talented player to come out of this draft. He is at least likely to equal Smart, if not surpass him.

To top it off, with Embiid needing recovery time and Saric in Turkey, they will get another top 5 pick next year.

I'm not panicing, Ainge still has assets and the offseason is still young, so he may make some big moves, but I'm envying Phili's roster right now.

You could put this scenario another way: Philly was historically terrible last year and is likely almost as terrible next year. They have no veteran leadership, no culture of winning, and no veteran all-star types (ahem Rondo) that could be used as either a huge trade chip or to woo FAs next year.

Creating a long-term culture of losing is NEVER the best way to create a great team. Philly has made losing into an art form. If Philly was Smart, they would trade some of their future picks for some veteran help to bring create a culture of winning for Embiid, Noel and MCW.

On the other side, the Celtics have flexibility moving forward: expiring contracts, promising youth at every position, enough solid veterans to be competitive this year and enough future picks to make big moves one this core comes together. The idea that Rondo is guaranteed to leave is laughable given that the Celtics could easily make a big trade during the season or a big slash in free agency next year (which will be even easier if the Celtics are competitive this year).

If Sully loses weight to better his lateral movement so as to defend the 4 and KO bulks up a bit to become less od a defensive liability at the 5, the Celtics can give a lot of minutes to what was statistically one of the best offensive and rebounding duos in the league over the second half. It's not crazy to expect KO and Sully to both average 16 PPG and 8 RPG or more this year.

A healed Rondo + Smart's tenacity will be nightmarish for opposing backcourts. If Green just does what he usually does, that's a competitive team that can put out some interesting lines and create matchup problems against almost anybody. They won't win a championship, but they can certainly make things interesting.

Remember: the Celtics weren't a barren wasteland of talent and losing when they brought in KG and Allen. They were a mediocre but competitive team with an established veteran star, young talent and good coach.

[Tr1boy]

could be way ahead or way behind

recovering from injuries

Noel
Embiid

Might never come over to the nba

Saric
Micic

Freak athletes but lack offensive skills

KJ Mcdaniel
Jerami Grant


You add that Young wants to leave and MCW might be overrated, the 76ers might have a huge hill to climb out of rebuilding


The Celitcs have prospects with higher iq's in general and are more skilled in comparison.

[Endless Paradise]

These all-or-nothing #HotSportsTakes are always so amusing.  "The Celtics are doomed since they didn't commit to the full-scale rebuild!" "Philly is creating a culture of losing that will poison their young prospects for years to come!"

Everything's always binary, nothing ever exists outside of the extremes.

[CM0]

there is a lot of bias in many of these responses, mainly stating that we have Rondo who is so much better than anything Phili has. Well, Rondo is in his prime years, coming off major knee surgery, and looked like crap last season. He will also leave or be traded for 10 cents on the dollar if we don't get some star vets this summer, so no, we don't have the superstar long term cornerstone many of you are implying. That's fan fiction, green tinted view. We have that superstar Rondo basically the same way the Timberwolves have Kevin Love, except that Love is younger and healthier and better so he gets more in return for a trade.

The other consistent response is to crap all over Embiid and Noel for not playing an NBA game yet and having injuries. This is another biased, one sided argument. Many people on here really wanted Embiid to fall to us. The perspectives massively shifted once Phili took him. Even Ainge admitted on the radio that he would have taken Embiid at 6, and the celtics doctors did not red-flag him as a major injury risk. Noel had the same injury Rondo had, so if he's washed up at 19 then Rondo is totally worthless at his age coming off the same injury, and so is Westbrook. As for not having played in the NBA yet, neither has Smart, yet you guys are calling him a future all-star. Let's face it, if we had Noel and Embiid, and Saric, the tone on here for those guys would be totally different. Most fans would be ecstatic.

  Why start the thread in the first place if you're going to get so upset when people disagree with you? If you can show us some quotes from Rondo or his camp  stating that he'll leave if certain conditions aren't met then you might have something with the "fan fiction" quip. Otherwise it's just wishful thinking on your part.

I'm not upset dude, just stating my thoughts. I think it's pretty clear that Rondo is gone if we don't get some star vets around him this summer. Ainge tried, and will keep trying, but nothing is guaranteed. The rest of the core without Rondo is pretty mediocre imo. Even Ainge said the other day that Smart and Young are not the type of players that you build a team around, and last year he referred to KO as a nice complementary player.

Why is that so clear to everyone? Ainge can easily make a trade during the season and/or clear up space next summer to make a splash in FA. NTM, there's a good chance that this current team can make the playoffs next year and be a strong FA destination then. This whole "Rondo is definitely leaving next year if we don't trade everything to rent Kevin Love" narrative is silly. The Celtics have maintained FLEXIBILITY to go in a number of directions.

[get_banners]

Well, they were god-awful this year (and that play might have a negative long-term impact on MCW, who became horribly inefficient as the season progressed). They have a big man in Noel who might be good or might be garbage. We have no clue. Their additions this year won't play until, at best, a year from now (Embiid) and 2 years (Saric). So...chances are, they are horrible again this year (their plan - 2 straight years of shameless tanking). Embiid might be great, but a big with a back and foot problem is a big concern. And Saric is skilled, but how many Euros can we say that about that didn't pan out? On paper, Philly has a ton of talent for the 2017-18 season, but so many of those pieces have huge question marks. Most of our talent...is known to some degree. KO can play. Sully might be an All-Star (or just below). Rondo is Rondo. And our top pick this year has issues, but at the very least, he's going to be a stud defender and a good slasher...and not a player coming off a knee/back/foot/Euro competition.

[CM0]

These all-or-nothing #HotSportsTakes are always so amusing.  "The Celtics are doomed since they didn't commit to the full-scale rebuild!" "Philly is creating a culture of losing that will poison their young prospects for years to come!"

Everything's always binary, nothing ever exists outside of the extremes.

I don't think they're necessarily doomed, but creating a culture of losing isn't a good thing (contrary to what many in this forum seem to believe).

[footey]

Philly had a great draft the last two years, although skeptical about Noel.  They are blatantly tanking, and next year should be no different since neither of their picks will be playing for a year or more.

I think they could become a great team in 3-5 years, and by then may be the best team in the Atlantic and top 2-3 in Eastern Conference.

[86MaxwellSmart]

I read the title wrong...I thought it said "PHIL"....as in Phil Jackson.

[TheTruthFot18]

1. MCW could and most likely will have a sophomore slump but overall good future pg
2. The vet presence on this team consists of J Rich's corpse and Thad Young who does not want to be part of the rebuild.
3. Saric won't be there for at LEAST 2 more years, at which time he could very well stay in Europe (it happens) and that pick will be a waste. Or he comes and is a solid player but I think he will be average at best (overrated IMO).
4. EMbiid and Noel I don't understand. Those are both true centers in my eyes and both with very shady injury histories. I would've stayed with Noel and drafted Exum at 3.

Honestly if they did the draft differently I might agree but they blew it.

[hpantazo]

I read the title wrong...I thought it said "PHIL"....as in Phil Jackson.

LOL, nah, Phil and the Knicks are still farther behind than anyone in the league in rebuilding.

[D.o.s.]

I read the title wrong...I thought it said "PHIL"....as in Phil Jackson.

LOL, nah, Phil and the Knicks are still farther behind than anyone in the league in rebuilding.

Do you consider the Nets rebuilding yet?

[BballTim]

there is a lot of bias in many of these responses, mainly stating that we have Rondo who is so much better than anything Phili has. Well, Rondo is in his prime years, coming off major knee surgery, and looked like crap last season. He will also leave or be traded for 10 cents on the dollar if we don't get some star vets this summer, so no, we don't have the superstar long term cornerstone many of you are implying. That's fan fiction, green tinted view. We have that superstar Rondo basically the same way the Timberwolves have Kevin Love, except that Love is younger and healthier and better so he gets more in return for a trade.

The other consistent response is to crap all over Embiid and Noel for not playing an NBA game yet and having injuries. This is another biased, one sided argument. Many people on here really wanted Embiid to fall to us. The perspectives massively shifted once Phili took him. Even Ainge admitted on the radio that he would have taken Embiid at 6, and the celtics doctors did not red-flag him as a major injury risk. Noel had the same injury Rondo had, so if he's washed up at 19 then Rondo is totally worthless at his age coming off the same injury, and so is Westbrook. As for not having played in the NBA yet, neither has Smart, yet you guys are calling him a future all-star. Let's face it, if we had Noel and Embiid, and Saric, the tone on here for those guys would be totally different. Most fans would be ecstatic.

  Why start the thread in the first place if you're going to get so upset when people disagree with you? If you can show us some quotes from Rondo or his camp  stating that he'll leave if certain conditions aren't met then you might have something with the "fan fiction" quip. Otherwise it's just wishful thinking on your part.

I'm not upset dude, just stating my thoughts. I think it's pretty clear that Rondo is gone if we don't get some star vets around him this summer. Ainge tried, and will keep trying, but nothing is guaranteed. The rest of the core without Rondo is pretty mediocre imo.

  It's not clear at all. If Danny wants to keep Rondo and add talent around him he probably has until next summer. At minimum he has until the trade deadline to decide.

I dissagree. It's the same as Love's situation. The longer we keep Rondo the less we can get in return for him in a trade if we can't get the talent around him to keep him. This summer is it imo. He's not going to re-sign in most places, so teams aren't going to pay a lot for half a season of Rondo when they can just sign him in a few months anyway.

On Rondo's side, he's not getting any younger. He would never stay for a long rebuild with these rookies with a slim hope of competing when he's in his mid 30's.

  I'm not sure why you don't understand that there's a difference between  "I'm leaving when my contract is up" and "why would I leave Boston?". But there's no point in discussing the point if that's the case.

[hpantazo]

there is a lot of bias in many of these responses, mainly stating that we have Rondo who is so much better than anything Phili has. Well, Rondo is in his prime years, coming off major knee surgery, and looked like crap last season. He will also leave or be traded for 10 cents on the dollar if we don't get some star vets this summer, so no, we don't have the superstar long term cornerstone many of you are implying. That's fan fiction, green tinted view. We have that superstar Rondo basically the same way the Timberwolves have Kevin Love, except that Love is younger and healthier and better so he gets more in return for a trade.

The other consistent response is to crap all over Embiid and Noel for not playing an NBA game yet and having injuries. This is another biased, one sided argument. Many people on here really wanted Embiid to fall to us. The perspectives massively shifted once Phili took him. Even Ainge admitted on the radio that he would have taken Embiid at 6, and the celtics doctors did not red-flag him as a major injury risk. Noel had the same injury Rondo had, so if he's washed up at 19 then Rondo is totally worthless at his age coming off the same injury, and so is Westbrook. As for not having played in the NBA yet, neither has Smart, yet you guys are calling him a future all-star. Let's face it, if we had Noel and Embiid, and Saric, the tone on here for those guys would be totally different. Most fans would be ecstatic.

  Why start the thread in the first place if you're going to get so upset when people disagree with you? If you can show us some quotes from Rondo or his camp  stating that he'll leave if certain conditions aren't met then you might have something with the "fan fiction" quip. Otherwise it's just wishful thinking on your part.

I'm not upset dude, just stating my thoughts. I think it's pretty clear that Rondo is gone if we don't get some star vets around him this summer. Ainge tried, and will keep trying, but nothing is guaranteed. The rest of the core without Rondo is pretty mediocre imo.

  It's not clear at all. If Danny wants to keep Rondo and add talent around him he probably has until next summer. At minimum he has until the trade deadline to decide.

I dissagree. It's the same as Love's situation. The longer we keep Rondo the less we can get in return for him in a trade if we can't get the talent around him to keep him. This summer is it imo. He's not going to re-sign in most places, so teams aren't going to pay a lot for half a season of Rondo when they can just sign him in a few months anyway.

On Rondo's side, he's not getting any younger. He would never stay for a long rebuild with these rookies with a slim hope of competing when he's in his mid 30's.

  I'm not sure why you don't understand that there's a difference between  "I'm leaving when my contract is up" and "why would I leave Boston?". But there's no point in discussing the point if that's the case.

I get that you don't want to see Rondo go, I would love to have him here for the rest of his career as well, I'm just being realistic. Rondo himself has said this summer that he wants to win now, and wants Ainge to bring in guys that want to win now and compete hard like him. He has in no way stated that he will not leave Boston. He has been noncommittal but basically says repeatedly he would like to stay but he wants to win, which equals "get some good vets here or else I'm leaving'. He also did flat out state that he wants to be an unrestricted free agent and wants to experience being courted by other teams. It's common sense that if we don't bring in some great vets and instead go with rookies and second year players, then we are going to move Rondo. I still have some faith that Ainge can pull off a few deals this summer to cash in on our assets though.

[BballTim]

there is a lot of bias in many of these responses, mainly stating that we have Rondo who is so much better than anything Phili has. Well, Rondo is in his prime years, coming off major knee surgery, and looked like crap last season. He will also leave or be traded for 10 cents on the dollar if we don't get some star vets this summer, so no, we don't have the superstar long term cornerstone many of you are implying. That's fan fiction, green tinted view. We have that superstar Rondo basically the same way the Timberwolves have Kevin Love, except that Love is younger and healthier and better so he gets more in return for a trade.

The other consistent response is to crap all over Embiid and Noel for not playing an NBA game yet and having injuries. This is another biased, one sided argument. Many people on here really wanted Embiid to fall to us. The perspectives massively shifted once Phili took him. Even Ainge admitted on the radio that he would have taken Embiid at 6, and the celtics doctors did not red-flag him as a major injury risk. Noel had the same injury Rondo had, so if he's washed up at 19 then Rondo is totally worthless at his age coming off the same injury, and so is Westbrook. As for not having played in the NBA yet, neither has Smart, yet you guys are calling him a future all-star. Let's face it, if we had Noel and Embiid, and Saric, the tone on here for those guys would be totally different. Most fans would be ecstatic.

  Why start the thread in the first place if you're going to get so upset when people disagree with you? If you can show us some quotes from Rondo or his camp  stating that he'll leave if certain conditions aren't met then you might have something with the "fan fiction" quip. Otherwise it's just wishful thinking on your part.

I'm not upset dude, just stating my thoughts. I think it's pretty clear that Rondo is gone if we don't get some star vets around him this summer. Ainge tried, and will keep trying, but nothing is guaranteed. The rest of the core without Rondo is pretty mediocre imo.

  It's not clear at all. If Danny wants to keep Rondo and add talent around him he probably has until next summer. At minimum he has until the trade deadline to decide.

I dissagree. It's the same as Love's situation. The longer we keep Rondo the less we can get in return for him in a trade if we can't get the talent around him to keep him. This summer is it imo. He's not going to re-sign in most places, so teams aren't going to pay a lot for half a season of Rondo when they can just sign him in a few months anyway.

On Rondo's side, he's not getting any younger. He would never stay for a long rebuild with these rookies with a slim hope of competing when he's in his mid 30's.

  I'm not sure why you don't understand that there's a difference between  "I'm leaving when my contract is up" and "why would I leave Boston?". But there's no point in discussing the point if that's the case.

I get that you don't want to see Rondo go, I would love to have him here for the rest of his career as well, I'm just being realistic. Rondo himself has said this summer that he wants to win now, and wants Ainge to bring in guys that want to win now and compete hard like him. He has in no way stated that he will not leave Boston. He has been noncommittal but basically says repeatedly he would like to stay but he wants to win, which equals "get some good vets here or else I'm leaving'. He also did flat out state that he wants to be an unrestricted free agent and wants to experience being courted by other teams. It's common sense that if we don't bring in some great vets and instead go with rookies and second year players, then we are going to move Rondo. I still have some faith that Ainge can pull off a few deals this summer to cash in on our assets though.

  He hasn't really been non-committal. He's talked about staying multiple times. It's not a guarantee, but his wanting to win is far from the ultimatum you claim it is.

[Larry for 3]

there is a lot of bias in many of these responses, mainly stating that we have Rondo who is so much better than anything Phili has. Well, Rondo is in his prime years, coming off major knee surgery, and looked like crap last season. He will also leave or be traded for 10 cents on the dollar if we don't get some star vets this summer, so no, we don't have the superstar long term cornerstone many of you are implying. That's fan fiction, green tinted view. We have that superstar Rondo basically the same way the Timberwolves have Kevin Love, except that Love is younger and healthier and better so he gets more in return for a trade.

The other consistent response is to crap all over Embiid and Noel for not playing an NBA game yet and having injuries. This is another biased, one sided argument. Many people on here really wanted Embiid to fall to us. The perspectives massively shifted once Phili took him. Even Ainge admitted on the radio that he would have taken Embiid at 6, and the celtics doctors did not red-flag him as a major injury risk. Noel had the same injury Rondo had, so if he's washed up at 19 then Rondo is totally worthless at his age coming off the same injury, and so is Westbrook. As for not having played in the NBA yet, neither has Smart, yet you guys are calling him a future all-star. Let's face it, if we had Noel and Embiid, and Saric, the tone on here for those guys would be totally different. Most fans would be ecstatic.

  Why start the thread in the first place if you're going to get so upset when people disagree with you? If you can show us some quotes from Rondo or his camp  stating that he'll leave if certain conditions aren't met then you might have something with the "fan fiction" quip. Otherwise it's just wishful thinking on your part.

I'm not upset dude, just stating my thoughts. I think it's pretty clear that Rondo is gone if we don't get some star vets around him this summer. Ainge tried, and will keep trying, but nothing is guaranteed. The rest of the core without Rondo is pretty mediocre imo.

  It's not clear at all. If Danny wants to keep Rondo and add talent around him he probably has until next summer. At minimum he has until the trade deadline to decide.

I dissagree. It's the same as Love's situation. The longer we keep Rondo the less we can get in return for him in a trade if we can't get the talent around him to keep him. This summer is it imo. He's not going to re-sign in most places, so teams aren't going to pay a lot for half a season of Rondo when they can just sign him in a few months anyway.

On Rondo's side, he's not getting any younger. He would never stay for a long rebuild with these rookies with a slim hope of competing when he's in his mid 30's.

  I'm not sure why you don't understand that there's a difference between  "I'm leaving when my contract is up" and "why would I leave Boston?". But there's no point in discussing the point if that's the case.

I get that you don't want to see Rondo go, I would love to have him here for the rest of his career as well, I'm just being realistic. Rondo himself has said this summer that he wants to win now, and wants Ainge to bring in guys that want to win now and compete hard like him. He has in no way stated that he will not leave Boston. He has been noncommittal but basically says repeatedly he would like to stay but he wants to win, which equals "get some good vets here or else I'm leaving'. He also did flat out state that he wants to be an unrestricted free agent and wants to experience being courted by other teams. It's common sense that if we don't bring in some great vets and instead go with rookies and second year players, then we are going to move Rondo. I still have some faith that Ainge can pull off a few deals this summer to cash in on our assets though.

  He hasn't really been non-committal. He's talked about staying multiple times. It's not a guarantee, but his wanting to win is far from the ultimatum you claim it is.

He'll stay if the price is right, if the Lakers offer him the max (very possible IMO) and we offer him less where do you think he's going?