Andy Katz: C's in conversation with Kings for the 8th pick

[Donoghus]

Im not sold on Mclemore but I do like the 8th pick

I want no part of McLemore if it comes at the expense of Rondo. 

Wouldn't mind having another top 10 pick in this draft but not sure what it takes if Rondo isn't part of the package. 

[gpap]

I'm not giving up four Draft picks AND Bradley/Lee for Kevin Love.  Sorry, but no.

Yes, because those 4 picks and Bradley are guaranteed to win you a championship

This is the whole reason why picks are valuable, to cash them in for a veteran player.

Unless you want to see a team of rookies.

And who's Lee?

[gpap]

I'm not giving up four Draft picks AND Bradley/Lee for Kevin Love.  Sorry, but no.

Thank you. It would be insane.

No actually, it wouldn't be.

I'd rather have the established player than a large group of unknowns.

You get Love and then it's that much easier to get that 3rd star in place.

Anyone remember 2007?

[Roy H.]

Im not sold on Mclemore but I do like the 8th pick

I want no part of McLemore if it comes at the expense of Rondo. 

Wouldn't mind having another top 10 pick in this draft but not sure what it takes if Rondo isn't part of the package.

If Rondo is traded, it's probably because Danny is convinced that he can't make the team a winner in time to convince Rondo to re-sign here.  That would be a double dose of crappy news, losing our best player and knowing we're in for a long rebuild.

I definitely think "win now" is still Danny's preferred option.

[chambers]

I'm not giving up four Draft picks AND Bradley/Lee for Kevin Love.  Sorry, but no.

We'd be signing Bradley to trade him- he wouldn't be in our plans (in this scenario). We probably can't sign Avery to a 7 million dollar deal if we are going after Love and another star. There's no way Avery has the same value as Afflalo or only 3 or 4 million less than Lance Stephenson.

The picks we are giving up would be both 2014 picks (6+17) and our own 2015 pick (won't be worth much because with Love and Rondo+ someone else it's probably 20 or 21 at best next year, and one Brooklyn pick, which has an unknown value at this point.

We are also moving Wallace's 10 million to make room to help sign another star.

Anyway, I think giving up 4 picks is okay as long as

1) we have Brooklyn picks left over in some capacity (and the Clippers pick)
2) we don't take back bad salary AND we also dump bad salary. If we could dump Wallace and Green to make way for some better players, it's 100% worth it (in my opinion).

[Chris22]

I'm not giving up four Draft picks AND Bradley/Lee for Kevin Love.  Sorry, but no.

Thank you. It would be insane.

No actually, it wouldn't be.

I'd rather have the established player than a large group of unknowns.

You get Love and then it's that much easier to get that 3rd star in place.

Anyone remember 2007?

I hope you are right.

But it reminds me of the Herschel Walker trade.

[MBunge]

There's no way Avery has the same value as Afflalo

Avery Bradley at 23 - 30.9 minutes, 14.9 pts, 43.8% shooting, 39.5% from 3, 3.8 rebs, 1.4 asts.

Aaron Afflalo at 24 - 27.1 minutes, 8.8 pts, 46.5% shooting, 46.5% from 3, 3.1 rebs, 1.7 asts.

Now, Avery was playing for a bad Celtics team while Afflalo was playing for a very good Nuggets squad and Avery has had a history of injuries, but I think the comparison still has merit.

At 23, Avery is thisclose to being one of those just-below-All-Star players that everybody wishes was on their team.  9 million a year is too much but a 4 year, 28 million dollar deal would not be at all out of the question and could become a bargain pretty quickly.

Mike

[Kane3387]

Im not sold on Mclemore but I do like the 8th pick

I want no part of McLemore if it comes at the expense of Rondo. 

Wouldn't mind having another top 10 pick in this draft but not sure what it takes if Rondo isn't part of the package.

If Rondo is traded, it's probably because Danny is convinced that he can't make the team a winner in time to convince Rondo to re-sign here.  That would be a double dose of crappy news, losing our best player and knowing we're in for a long rebuild.

I definitely think "win now" is still Danny's preferred option.

I'm sure its ownerships.

[knuckleballer]

Im not sold on Mclemore but I do like the 8th pick

I want no part of McLemore if it comes at the expense of Rondo. 

Wouldn't mind having another top 10 pick in this draft but not sure what it takes if Rondo isn't part of the package.

I'm sure Rondo would be a part of that deal.

I'd be happy to bring in McLemore with the 8th pick.  He was overwhelmed as a rookie, but that's not unusual.  He played well as a freshman at Kansas shooting 42% from three.  He's 6'5" and has a 42" vertical.  He may never amount to anything in the NBA, but it's way too early to write him off.  Remember the Celtics gave up on a couple of struggling rookies Joe Johnson and Billups and they became perennial all stars.  Bradley was putrid as a rookie and he's turned into a solid player.  For a rebuilding team, McLemore is worth a shot.

[Donoghus]

Im not sold on Mclemore but I do like the 8th pick

I want no part of McLemore if it comes at the expense of Rondo. 

Wouldn't mind having another top 10 pick in this draft but not sure what it takes if Rondo isn't part of the package.

I'm sure Rondo would be a part of that deal.

I'd be happy to bring in McLemore with the 8th pick.  He was overwhelmed as a rookie, but that's not unusual.  He played well as a freshman at Kansas shooting 42% from three.  He's 6'5" and has a 42" vertical.  He may never amount to anything in the NBA, but it's way too early to write him off.  Remember the Celtics gave up on a couple of struggling rookies Joe Johnson and Billups and they became perennial all stars.  Bradley was putrid as a rookie and he's turned into a solid player.  For a rebuilding team, McLemore is worth a shot.

I'll take what we already got and, arguably, our best player asset (Rondo) and keep him rather than rolling the dice on McLemore to one day reach his perceived potential. 

[knuckleballer]

Im not sold on Mclemore but I do like the 8th pick

I want no part of McLemore if it comes at the expense of Rondo. 

Wouldn't mind having another top 10 pick in this draft but not sure what it takes if Rondo isn't part of the package.

I'm sure Rondo would be a part of that deal.

I'd be happy to bring in McLemore with the 8th pick.  He was overwhelmed as a rookie, but that's not unusual.  He played well as a freshman at Kansas shooting 42% from three.  He's 6'5" and has a 42" vertical.  He may never amount to anything in the NBA, but it's way too early to write him off.  Remember the Celtics gave up on a couple of struggling rookies Joe Johnson and Billups and they became perennial all stars.  Bradley was putrid as a rookie and he's turned into a solid player.  For a rebuilding team, McLemore is worth a shot.

I'll take what we already got and, arguably, our best player asset (Rondo) and keep him rather than rolling the dice on McLemore to one day reach his perceived potential.

I wouldn't trade Rondo for McLemore straight up either.  The deal is for McLemore and the 8th pick which will likely be Randle, Smart, or Gordon.  And you only do this if the Celtics are going to rebuild and thus risk losing Rondo for no compensation.

[chambers]

There's no way Avery has the same value as Afflalo

Avery Bradley at 23 - 30.9 minutes, 14.9 pts, 43.8% shooting, 39.5% from 3, 3.8 rebs, 1.4 asts.

Aaron Afflalo at 24 - 27.1 minutes, 8.8 pts, 46.5% shooting, 46.5% from 3, 3.1 rebs, 1.7 asts.

Now, Avery was playing for a bad Celtics team while Afflalo was playing for a very good Nuggets squad and Avery has had a history of injuries, but I think the comparison still has merit.

At 23, Avery is thisclose to being one of those just-below-All-Star players that everybody wishes was on their team.  9 million a year is too much but a 4 year, 28 million dollar deal would not be at all out of the question and could become a bargain pretty quickly.

Mike

Well Afflalo was on $1.9 million at age 24. I think it's better to compare them when Afflalo was signed to $7 million- because Avery is part of a $7 million conversation and they were both 5 seasons into their NBA careers when they went for those deal. Afflalo signed his $7 million per year deal in 2011-12 deal with the statistics of...

Afflalo: 16.3 points, 3.4 rebounds, 2.4 assists on 47% FG per 36 minutes.
His True shooting percentage of 58.4% and Effective FG% of 53.4 simply destroy Avery at
TS 51% and EFG of 48.5%.
Afflalo has the ability to get to the line and draw fouls, making his efficiency so much better.
He's also got the size and strength to guard elite shooting guards, and he also doesn't have the injury history of Avery. His win shares were 5.3 with an offensive vs defensive split rating of +5. Avery's win shares this season (on a bad team)  were at 1.8 with a OvsD split of -9 (minus nine).
His $7 million was under the old CBA as well, which would mean now it's worth significantly less.
In Avery's favor, he's a an overall better defender but Afflalo is an awesome defender too, with  even more size and can guard the 1 through 3 spots at 6' 5".
Avery's also younger at 23 and Afflalo was 25 at the time, so you are paying for 'potential'.

Afflalo was a better player than Avery, but had less upside overall. Avery's upside is larger because of age, but personally and I'd assume NBA league wide, Avery's not getting that much better and his decline will come sooner because of the stress on his body.
  Anyway if they were both up for free agency right now, I know who I'd pick for $7 Million and they're about $1.5-2 million difference wise in contract to me. If we say Afflalo was a 20% better player then take off 20% of the $7 million, which makes $5.6 million, or a 4 year, 22.5 million deal. Under today's CBA, I think $7 million in 2011 is worth around $6 million today.

You never know though, in a market that is SG thin, all it takes is one bad GM to sign the line over reasonable market value.

[saltlover]

There's no way Avery has the same value as Afflalo

Avery Bradley at 23 - 30.9 minutes, 14.9 pts, 43.8% shooting, 39.5% from 3, 3.8 rebs, 1.4 asts.

Aaron Afflalo at 24 - 27.1 minutes, 8.8 pts, 46.5% shooting, 46.5% from 3, 3.1 rebs, 1.7 asts.

Now, Avery was playing for a bad Celtics team while Afflalo was playing for a very good Nuggets squad and Avery has had a history of injuries, but I think the comparison still has merit.

At 23, Avery is thisclose to being one of those just-below-All-Star players that everybody wishes was on their team.  9 million a year is too much but a 4 year, 28 million dollar deal would not be at all out of the question and could become a bargain pretty quickly.

Mike

Well Afflalo was on $1.9 million at age 24. I think it's better to compare them when Afflalo was signed to $7 million- because Avery is part of a $7 million conversation and they were both 5 seasons into their NBA careers when they went for those deal. Afflalo signed his $7 million per year deal in 2011-12 deal with the statistics of...

Afflalo: 16.3 points, 3.4 rebounds, 2.4 assists on 47% FG per 36 minutes.
His True shooting percentage of 58.4% and Effective FG% of 53.4 simply destroy Avery at
TS 51% and EFG of 48.5%.
Afflalo has the ability to get to the line and draw fouls, making his efficiency so much better.
He's also got the size and strength to guard elite shooting guards, and he also doesn't have the injury history of Avery. His win shares were 5.3 with an offensive vs defensive split rating of +5. Avery's win shares this season (on a bad team)  were at 1.8 with a OvsD split of -9 (minus nine).
His $7 million was under the old CBA as well, which would mean now it's worth significantly less.
In Avery's favor, he's a an overall better defender but Afflalo is an awesome defender too, with  even more size and can guard the 1 through 3 spots at 6' 5".
Avery's also younger at 23 and Afflalo was 25 at the time, so you are paying for 'potential'.

Afflalo was a better player than Avery, but had less upside overall. Avery's upside is larger because of age, but personally and I'd assume NBA league wide, Avery's not getting that much better and his decline will come sooner because of the stress on his body.
  Anyway if they were both up for free agency right now, I know who I'd pick for $7 Million and they're about $1.5-2 million difference wise in contract to me. If we say Afflalo was a 20% better player then take off 20% of the $7 million, which makes $5.6 million, or a 4 year, 22.5 million deal. Under today's CBA, I think $7 million in 2011 is worth around $6 million today.

You never know though, in a market that is SG thin, all it takes is one bad GM to sign the line over reasonable market value.

Afflalo was signed under the current CBA.  There's been a 10% increase in the salary cap since he signed his deal.  So $7 million in December 2011 should be worth more today.

Furthermore, Afflalo makes $7.5 million, and has every year of his deal.

(I bolded text in last paragraph.)

[chambers]

There's no way Avery has the same value as Afflalo

Avery Bradley at 23 - 30.9 minutes, 14.9 pts, 43.8% shooting, 39.5% from 3, 3.8 rebs, 1.4 asts.

Aaron Afflalo at 24 - 27.1 minutes, 8.8 pts, 46.5% shooting, 46.5% from 3, 3.1 rebs, 1.7 asts.

Now, Avery was playing for a bad Celtics team while Afflalo was playing for a very good Nuggets squad and Avery has had a history of injuries, but I think the comparison still has merit.

At 23, Avery is thisclose to being one of those just-below-All-Star players that everybody wishes was on their team.  9 million a year is too much but a 4 year, 28 million dollar deal would not be at all out of the question and could become a bargain pretty quickly.

Mike

Well Afflalo was on $1.9 million at age 24. I think it's better to compare them when Afflalo was signed to $7 million- because Avery is part of a $7 million conversation and they were both 5 seasons into their NBA careers when they went for those deal. Afflalo signed his $7 million per year deal in 2011-12 deal with the statistics of...

Afflalo: 16.3 points, 3.4 rebounds, 2.4 assists on 47% FG per 36 minutes.
His True shooting percentage of 58.4% and Effective FG% of 53.4 simply destroy Avery at
TS 51% and EFG of 48.5%.
Afflalo has the ability to get to the line and draw fouls, making his efficiency so much better.
He's also got the size and strength to guard elite shooting guards, and he also doesn't have the injury history of Avery. His win shares were 5.3 with an offensive vs defensive split rating of +5. Avery's win shares this season (on a bad team)  were at 1.8 with a OvsD split of -9 (minus nine).
His $7 million was under the old CBA as well, which would mean now it's worth significantly less.
In Avery's favor, he's a an overall better defender but Afflalo is an awesome defender too, with  even more size and can guard the 1 through 3 spots at 6' 5".
Avery's also younger at 23 and Afflalo was 25 at the time, so you are paying for 'potential'.

Afflalo was a better player than Avery, but had less upside overall. Avery's upside is larger because of age, but personally and I'd assume NBA league wide, Avery's not getting that much better and his decline will come sooner because of the stress on his body.
  Anyway if they were both up for free agency right now, I know who I'd pick for $7 Million and they're about $1.5-2 million difference wise in contract to me. If we say Afflalo was a 20% better player then take off 20% of the $7 million, which makes $5.6 million, or a 4 year, 22.5 million deal. Under today's CBA, I think $7 million in 2011 is worth around $6 million today.

You never know though, in a market that is SG thin, all it takes is one bad GM to sign the line over reasonable market value.

Afflalo was signed under the current CBA.  There's been a 10% increase in the salary cap since he signed his deal.  So $7 million in December 2011 should be worth more today.

Furthermore, Afflalo makes $7.5 million, and has every year of his deal.

(I bolded text in last paragraph.)

Thanks, i stand corrected.
Regardless, Bradley is not valued $7 or $7.5 million in my opinion. Afflalo was a better player at the time.

[Future Celtics Owner]

I'm not giving up four Draft picks AND Bradley/Lee for Kevin Love.  Sorry, but no.

We'd be signing Bradley to trade him- he wouldn't be in our plans (in this scenario). We probably can't sign Avery to a 7 million dollar deal if we are going after Love and another star. There's no way Avery has the same value as Afflalo or only 3 or 4 million less than Lance Stephenson.

The picks we are giving up would be both 2014 picks (6+17) and our own 2015 pick (won't be worth much because with Love and Rondo+ someone else it's probably 20 or 21 at best next year, and one Brooklyn pick, which has an unknown value at this point.

We are also moving Wallace's 10 million to make room to help sign another star.

Anyway, I think giving up 4 picks is okay as long as

1) we have Brooklyn picks left over in some capacity (and the Clippers pick)
2) we don't take back bad salary AND we also dump bad salary. If we could dump Wallace and Green to make way for some better players, it's 100% worth it (in my opinion).

I do not think we have to get rid of Green. This year only proved that he can not be a first option. If we get Love , that would make Green the third option on the team, and I believe he would play better.