Report: Celtics leave Wednesday workout impressed with Noah Vonleh

[pokeKingCurtis]

"DANNY DANNY, quick word on what you thought of Marcus Smart's workout please"
"He was impressive. k bye"

"DANNY DANNY, quick word on what you thought of Vonleh today"
"He was impressive. k bye"

"DANNY DANNY, quick word on what you thought of Russ Smith's workout"
"He was impressive. k bye"

[BigAlTheFuture]

"DANNY DANNY, quick word on what you thought of Marcus Smart's workout please"
"He was impressive. k bye"

"DANNY DANNY, quick word on what you thought of Vonleh today"
"He was impressive. k bye"

"DANNY DANNY, quick word on what you thought of Russ Smith's workout"
"He was impressive. k bye"

hahahahaha. Sounds like him

[crimson_stallion]

After EVERY workout they have been "impressed" by someone. Even when they had guys no one talks about they said it. Really, just look around for articles. This tells me nothing.

The only quote from the Cs brass that has really jumped out at me as legitimate, above and beyond praise was Austin Ainge describing T.J. Warren's scoring ability. He may have said similar things about other players, but that was the only quote of its kind that I read.

Personally, I'm not on the Vonleh hype-train. He has a pretty high bust potential and isn't a great fit for the Celtics (I'm not buying him at the 5 anytime soon). There's no way he could be considered so much better than Smart or Gordon so as to justify drafting him at a position of existing strength. I have Smart, Gordon, Exum, Saric and Randle all ahead of him as prospects anyhow,

I don't really get the claim about high bust petential.

Almost everybody in the top 10 of this draft could be argued add having high bust potential - most have played only one year in college (or none) and all of them have significant weaknesses.

Embiid - back issues, terrible IQ
Wiggins - iffy ball handling,  lack of aggressiveness
Parker - questionable fitness/athleticism , poor defender
Exum - jumpshot, lack of college experience
Smart - jumpshot,  but an elite athlete,  average passer and ball handler
Randle - average length,  lack of jumper,  poor defender,  no right hand,  lack of post moves
Gordon - too weak/small for PF, too poor a shooter for a Sf, prime candidate for "hack-a-gordon", limited offensively

There is nobody in this draft who is a straight up slam dunk, all of the players have a very real risk of being busts.

When I look at Vonleh I actually think he has one of the lowest risks of being a busy based purely on his outright versatility and physical gifts. 

Firstly he's arguably the best rebounder in the entire draft class - that alone is enough to ensure he will always have a job in the NBA.

Secondly,  he's a big man with an outside shooting touch.  There will almost always be a team looking for a guy with that skill set.

Thirdly,  he a quite capable shot blocker and run protector.  That alone is a highly valued skill set in the NBA.

Finally almost everybody who has worked with him has said he's a great kid who is incredibly hard working and highly coachable, that he plays with great hustle,  and that he's not afraid to throw his weight around and bang on the post. All move intangibles that most teams would love to have.

Then you throw in the fact that he has a very decent (if a bit raw) post game.  He can score in the post with both hands,  has a solid hook shot with both hands,  and used his length and strength well to finish in traffic.

Lastly the guy is only 18 and is a bit of a physical specimen.

I just don't see the bust in this guy. Hes way too versatile.  If he struggles in one area (such as shooting) then he'll still excel as a defender

[Future Celtics Owner]

...

The thing with Vonleh is that even though he has shown at times that he has poor hands (can't catch difficult passes),  feel for game is mediocre (make quick accurante passes) and doesn't have elite explosiveness/quickness, he has a list of many other things he would be considered elite for a PF in the nba. Length, vertical leap, strength, handles, jump shot, defense and ability to score from the post.  Like some have said here, you can also use him as a center the same way the Heat uses Bosh as a center or spurs use Splitter as a center at times.

etc

a) Chad Ford disagrees on his hands:

?If you watched a lot of game film on Vonleh, you'd see that he could catch just about anything Yogi Ferrell threw his direction. But watching him in drills, you see how remarkable he really is. Vonleh went through a drill where there were two balls placed on each block of the lane. His goal is to grab a ball and dunk it and then move to the other block, bend down, grab the next ball and dunk it, over and over for 10 dunks. Vonleh is the first player I've ever seen do the drill one-handed. He raced from spot to spot, picking up the ball like it was a tennis ball and dunking it. Those hands will be critical to his success in the pros. Vonleh also has a reputation as a hard worker both on and off the court and drew praise from scouts in his interviews. He's humble and hungry, two great attributes in a lottery pick.?

b) His passing is a weakness. He can shoot however.

c) He's not a elite leaper, but he is an elite rebounder and was top PF rebounder per 40 minutes and 2nd among all positions to Embiid.

I don't get why it says he is not an elite leaper. His max vertical was measured at 37'', just two inches away from Aaron Gordon, the "most athletic player" in the draft besides wiggins.....

[Future Celtics Owner]

...

The thing with Vonleh is that even though he has shown at times that he has poor hands (can't catch difficult passes),  feel for game is mediocre (make quick accurante passes) and doesn't have elite explosiveness/quickness, he has a list of many other things he would be considered elite for a PF in the nba. Length, vertical leap, strength, handles, jump shot, defense and ability to score from the post.  Like some have said here, you can also use him as a center the same way the Heat uses Bosh as a center or spurs use Splitter as a center at times.

etc

a) Chad Ford disagrees on his hands:

?If you watched a lot of game film on Vonleh, you'd see that he could catch just about anything Yogi Ferrell threw his direction. But watching him in drills, you see how remarkable he really is. Vonleh went through a drill where there were two balls placed on each block of the lane. His goal is to grab a ball and dunk it and then move to the other block, bend down, grab the next ball and dunk it, over and over for 10 dunks. Vonleh is the first player I've ever seen do the drill one-handed. He raced from spot to spot, picking up the ball like it was a tennis ball and dunking it. Those hands will be critical to his success in the pros. Vonleh also has a reputation as a hard worker both on and off the court and drew praise from scouts in his interviews. He's humble and hungry, two great attributes in a lottery pick.?

b) His passing is a weakness. He can shoot however.

c) He's not a elite leaper, but he is an elite rebounder and was top PF rebounder per 40 minutes and 2nd among all positions to Embiid.

I don't get why it says he is not an elite leaper. His max vertical was measured at 37'', just two inches away from Aaron Gordon, the "most athletic player" in the draft besides wiggins.....

Actually his max vertical was ranked higher than Blake griffin at the combine, and he's a year younger.

[Greenbean]

I dont know if it is because this draft really is deep, or because ive been brainwashed to believe it is deep  and thus have obsessed over every player expected to go in the lottery but vonleh is one of several guys who I think could turn into to a real dynamic scorer and defender on a good team.

There was a thread last week about how many all stars there would be from this year's draft. I was too embarrassed to post the 12 players i have convinced myself are all star caliber

[colincb]

After EVERY workout they have been "impressed" by someone. Even when they had guys no one talks about they said it. Really, just look around for articles. This tells me nothing.

The only quote from the Cs brass that has really jumped out at me as legitimate, above and beyond praise was Austin Ainge describing T.J. Warren's scoring ability. He may have said similar things about other players, but that was the only quote of its kind that I read.

Personally, I'm not on the Vonleh hype-train. He has a pretty high bust potential and isn't a great fit for the Celtics (I'm not buying him at the 5 anytime soon). There's no way he could be considered so much better than Smart or Gordon so as to justify drafting him at a position of existing strength. I have Smart, Gordon, Exum, Saric and Randle all ahead of him as prospects anyhow,

I don't really get the claim about high bust petential.

Almost everybody in the top 10 of this draft could be argued add having high bust potential - most have played only one year in college (or none) and all of them have significant weaknesses.

Embiid - back issues, terrible IQ
Wiggins - iffy ball handling,  lack of aggressiveness
Parker - questionable fitness/athleticism , poor defender
Exum - jumpshot, lack of college experience
Smart - jumpshot,  but an elite athlete,  average passer and ball handler
Randle - average length,  lack of jumper,  poor defender,  no right hand,  lack of post moves
Gordon - too weak/small for PF, too poor a shooter for a Sf, prime candidate for "hack-a-gordon", limited offensively

There is nobody in this draft who is a straight up slam dunk, all of the players have a very real risk of being busts.

When I look at Vonleh I actually think he has one of the lowest risks of being a busy based purely on his outright versatility and physical gifts. 

Firstly he's arguably the best rebounder in the entire draft class - that alone is enough to ensure he will always have a job in the NBA.

Secondly,  he's a big man with an outside shooting touch.  There will almost always be a team looking for a guy with that skill set.

Thirdly,  he a quite capable shot blocker and run protector.  That alone is a highly valued skill set in the NBA.

Finally almost everybody who has worked with him has said he's a great kid who is incredibly hard working and highly coachable, that he plays with great hustle,  and that he's not afraid to throw his weight around and bang on the post. All move intangibles that most teams would love to have.

Then you throw in the fact that he has a very decent (if a bit raw) post game.  He can score in the post with both hands,  has a solid hook shot with both hands,  and used his length and strength well to finish in traffic.

Lastly the guy is only 18 and is a bit of a physical specimen.

I just don't see the bust in this guy. Hes way too versatile.  If he struggles in one area (such as shooting) then he'll still excel as a defender

I think Vonleh's one of the lower bust potential guys also. He's going to be an elite rebounder, which translates well, and he has shooting touch.  He's raw, but he's going to be a good player. I'm not as concerned about these guys as you are except for Exum, Randle and Gordon.  Embiid's back is a concern until we know more, but Wiggins and Parker are safe bets to be very good players.  I think Vonleh and Smart are pretty safe bets as well.

I haven't had enough info on Exum.  I like what I see on the DraftExpress breakdowns, but I wouldn?t take him over the top 3 guys, Vonleh, or Smart, but I would take him over Randle and Gordon at 6.  Randle?s much iffier because, outside of the rebounding, his game doesn?t translate well and he has some holes that are pretty big to fix (the foot iissue doesn't sound major).  Gordon?s lack of offense if guarded leaves him as a rotation guy as an elite wing defender and I want more from a 6 pick in this draft.  His offense is not limited; it?s atrocious to both my eyes and my stat sheets.

[Tr1boy]

...

The thing with Vonleh is that even though he has shown at times that he has poor hands (can't catch difficult passes),  feel for game is mediocre (make quick accurante passes) and doesn't have elite explosiveness/quickness, he has a list of many other things he would be considered elite for a PF in the nba. Length, vertical leap, strength, handles, jump shot, defense and ability to score from the post.  Like some have said here, you can also use him as a center the same way the Heat uses Bosh as a center or spurs use Splitter as a center at times.

etc

a) Chad Ford disagrees on his hands:

?If you watched a lot of game film on Vonleh, you'd see that he could catch just about anything Yogi Ferrell threw his direction. But watching him in drills, you see how remarkable he really is. Vonleh went through a drill where there were two balls placed on each block of the lane. His goal is to grab a ball and dunk it and then move to the other block, bend down, grab the next ball and dunk it, over and over for 10 dunks. Vonleh is the first player I've ever seen do the drill one-handed. He raced from spot to spot, picking up the ball like it was a tennis ball and dunking it. Those hands will be critical to his success in the pros. Vonleh also has a reputation as a hard worker both on and off the court and drew praise from scouts in his interviews. He's humble and hungry, two great attributes in a lottery pick.?

b) His passing is a weakness. He can shoot however.

c) He's not a elite leaper, but he is an elite rebounder and was top PF rebounder per 40 minutes and 2nd among all positions to Embiid.

I don't get why it says he is not an elite leaper. His max vertical was measured at 37'', just two inches away from Aaron Gordon, the "most athletic player" in the draft besides wiggins.....

Actually his max vertical was ranked higher than Blake griffin at the combine, and he's a year younger.

Griffin is much more explosive and quicker though.

[ManUp]

I would take him over Exum.

[Fafnir]

Actually his max vertical was ranked higher than Blake griffin at the combine, and he's a year younger.

How high you can jump isn't a good measure of how explosive you are off the floor and how quick your second jump is. That second jump is hugely important.

Besides he doesn't have the same aggressive attacking game.

[BleedGreen1989]

...

The thing with Vonleh is that even though he has shown at times that he has poor hands (can't catch difficult passes),  feel for game is mediocre (make quick accurante passes) and doesn't have elite explosiveness/quickness, he has a list of many other things he would be considered elite for a PF in the nba. Length, vertical leap, strength, handles, jump shot, defense and ability to score from the post.  Like some have said here, you can also use him as a center the same way the Heat uses Bosh as a center or spurs use Splitter as a center at times.

etc

a) Chad Ford disagrees on his hands:

?If you watched a lot of game film on Vonleh, you'd see that he could catch just about anything Yogi Ferrell threw his direction. But watching him in drills, you see how remarkable he really is. Vonleh went through a drill where there were two balls placed on each block of the lane. His goal is to grab a ball and dunk it and then move to the other block, bend down, grab the next ball and dunk it, over and over for 10 dunks. Vonleh is the first player I've ever seen do the drill one-handed. He raced from spot to spot, picking up the ball like it was a tennis ball and dunking it. Those hands will be critical to his success in the pros. Vonleh also has a reputation as a hard worker both on and off the court and drew praise from scouts in his interviews. He's humble and hungry, two great attributes in a lottery pick.?

b) His passing is a weakness. He can shoot however.

c) He's not a elite leaper, but he is an elite rebounder and was top PF rebounder per 40 minutes and 2nd among all positions to Embiid.

I don't get why it says he is not an elite leaper. His max vertical was measured at 37'', just two inches away from Aaron Gordon, the "most athletic player" in the draft besides wiggins.....

Actually his max vertical was ranked higher than Blake griffin at the combine, and he's a year younger.

Griffin is much more explosive and quicker though.

Yeah, although Vonleh has some nice athletic numbers, it doesn't exactly show up in his actual game.

[CM0]

After EVERY workout they have been "impressed" by someone. Even when they had guys no one talks about they said it. Really, just look around for articles. This tells me nothing.

The only quote from the Cs brass that has really jumped out at me as legitimate, above and beyond praise was Austin Ainge describing T.J. Warren's scoring ability. He may have said similar things about other players, but that was the only quote of its kind that I read.

Personally, I'm not on the Vonleh hype-train. He has a pretty high bust potential and isn't a great fit for the Celtics (I'm not buying him at the 5 anytime soon). There's no way he could be considered so much better than Smart or Gordon so as to justify drafting him at a position of existing strength. I have Smart, Gordon, Exum, Saric and Randle all ahead of him as prospects anyhow,

I don't really get the claim about high bust petential.

Almost everybody in the top 10 of this draft could be argued add having high bust potential - most have played only one year in college (or none) and all of them have significant weaknesses.

Embiid - back issues, terrible IQ
Wiggins - iffy ball handling,  lack of aggressiveness
Parker - questionable fitness/athleticism , poor defender
Exum - jumpshot, lack of college experience
Smart - jumpshot,  but an elite athlete,  average passer and ball handler
Randle - average length,  lack of jumper,  poor defender,  no right hand,  lack of post moves
Gordon - too weak/small for PF, too poor a shooter for a Sf, prime candidate for "hack-a-gordon", limited offensively

There is nobody in this draft who is a straight up slam dunk, all of the players have a very real risk of being busts.

When I look at Vonleh I actually think he has one of the lowest risks of being a busy based purely on his outright versatility and physical gifts. 

Firstly he's arguably the best rebounder in the entire draft class - that alone is enough to ensure he will always have a job in the NBA.

Secondly,  he's a big man with an outside shooting touch.  There will almost always be a team looking for a guy with that skill set.

Thirdly,  he a quite capable shot blocker and run protector.  That alone is a highly valued skill set in the NBA.

Finally almost everybody who has worked with him has said he's a great kid who is incredibly hard working and highly coachable, that he plays with great hustle,  and that he's not afraid to throw his weight around and bang on the post. All move intangibles that most teams would love to have.

Then you throw in the fact that he has a very decent (if a bit raw) post game.  He can score in the post with both hands,  has a solid hook shot with both hands,  and used his length and strength well to finish in traffic.

Lastly the guy is only 18 and is a bit of a physical specimen.

I just don't see the bust in this guy. Hes way too versatile.  If he struggles in one area (such as shooting) then he'll still excel as a defender

Gordon and Smart are arguably the two best defenders in this draft class. To use your words,  that alone is enough to ensure that they will always have a job in the NBA. They also both have extremely high BB IQs and an extremely high level of dedication and fiery competitiveness to go along with it. I think they're among the safest the picks in the entire draft.

Nobody is denying that Vonleh has talent or the physical tools to become elite. The issue is that he's extremely raw in many ways and doesn't have the BB IQ of guys like Gordon, Smart, Saric, McDermott, etc. Things like footwork and awareness are what separates physically gifted bigs who become stars from physically gifted bigs that peter out. Reports that he has shown up wildly out of shape for workouts doesn't bode well for his development or reflect the optimal mindset that teams desire from a developmental prospect.

He very well may become a star, but it would be difficult to put him in a tier above either Smart or Gordon right now. Given that Vonleh will be a PF for the foreseeable future, I don't see how the Celtics could draft him unless he was considered to be vastly better than Smart and Gordon and I don't think it's the case (the rule of thumb being draft best available but give preference to a guy at a position of need if two or more players are rated similarly).

Btw- "If he struggles in one area (such as shooting) then he'll still excel as a defender" How does this not apply to either Smart or Gordon?

[KGs Knee]

I've been a huge fan of Vonleh since the very early stages of the college season, admittedly, but I really hope he is the Celtics pick at #6 if he is actually available.

He seems to just have far more value and upside than any of the players not named Wiggins, Embiid or Parker.  You can't teach his size, and being both a rim protector and elite rebounder to go along with a nice outside shot is one of the most valuable combinations of skill sets an NBA player can have.

I'm sure most people will think it's controversial, but I could quite easily see Vonleh having a better NBA career than Embiid.

[Future Celtics Owner]

...

The thing with Vonleh is that even though he has shown at times that he has poor hands (can't catch difficult passes),  feel for game is mediocre (make quick accurante passes) and doesn't have elite explosiveness/quickness, he has a list of many other things he would be considered elite for a PF in the nba. Length, vertical leap, strength, handles, jump shot, defense and ability to score from the post.  Like some have said here, you can also use him as a center the same way the Heat uses Bosh as a center or spurs use Splitter as a center at times.

etc

a) Chad Ford disagrees on his hands:

?If you watched a lot of game film on Vonleh, you'd see that he could catch just about anything Yogi Ferrell threw his direction. But watching him in drills, you see how remarkable he really is. Vonleh went through a drill where there were two balls placed on each block of the lane. His goal is to grab a ball and dunk it and then move to the other block, bend down, grab the next ball and dunk it, over and over for 10 dunks. Vonleh is the first player I've ever seen do the drill one-handed. He raced from spot to spot, picking up the ball like it was a tennis ball and dunking it. Those hands will be critical to his success in the pros. Vonleh also has a reputation as a hard worker both on and off the court and drew praise from scouts in his interviews. He's humble and hungry, two great attributes in a lottery pick.?

b) His passing is a weakness. He can shoot however.

c) He's not a elite leaper, but he is an elite rebounder and was top PF rebounder per 40 minutes and 2nd among all positions to Embiid.

I don't get why it says he is not an elite leaper. His max vertical was measured at 37'', just two inches away from Aaron Gordon, the "most athletic player" in the draft besides wiggins.....

Actually his max vertical was ranked higher than Blake griffin at the combine, and he's a year younger.

Griffin is much more explosive and quicker though.

Yeah, although Vonleh has some nice athletic numbers, it doesn't exactly show up in his actual game.

The comment made was that he is not an elite leaper. Nothing about his second jump or explosiveness. A 37 inch max vert is an elite jump for a pf that is 250lbs.

[SHAQATTACK]

I guess I'm on the Vonleh band wagon ......I have him just barely ahead of Gordon...based on maybe his ceiling and playing some center instead of Sully or KO......or worse Bass

Then I was on the the Royce White band wagon too  .....and then there was Fabulous Fab Melo

Just awful .....and the skinny no muscle JJJ ,,,no brain lost pick.


I like Gordon's attitude ...mental. Stability .......he has the right mindset for NBA

Maybe Gordon should be the guy ........  I just don't know