I don't think anyone on here has a serious problem with the idea of Kevin Love in green, I think we're all just arguing about an acceptable price.
At least a couple posters seem to have a problem.
Mike
love clearly is an excellent player, a great scorer, and a very good rebounder, but does all that make up for his being a poor defender? or does his being a poor defender lower his overall value as a player to the point where he is not able to win enough games given his cost in salary and trade chips? crudely stated, does he give up so many points that the advantage of his scoring is significantly eroded?
another way to put this is if we put aside his gaudy stats of points and rebounds and look at plus/minus (one more flawed stat) last season love was at 4.6+ per game, which was about 31st in the league.
31st is good, but not elite. and the question is whether the price the celtics will have to pay for love is justified for a very good, but not elite over all player. is a very good player good enough for what the celtics will pay for and need in their pf?
do love's defensive flaws detract from his over all ability to carry a team to victory consistently?
EDIT: when i revisited the +/- ratings once more, i sorted by "per 36 minutes." when looked at that way, love comes in at around 67th in the league.
First, that sort on plus/minus per 36 is next to meaningless because it doesn't filter by minutes played. The top 5 guys on the list - at least the one I'm looking at - are Seth Curry (SETH), DeAndre Liggins, Othyus Jeffers, Robert Covington and Malcolm Thomas. Shav Randolph was 7th. Lebron is something like 55th.
Second and much more important, you're looking at Love's raw plus/minus, which is hurt by the fact that he's on a mediocre team. Just to continue one of the running examples above, Anthony Davis was -1.7 last year. Does that mean he's terrible, or just on a really bad team?
If you look at net plus/minus, which is better but still somewhat flawed (because it doesn't control for the quality of a player's backups and other teammates), Love is a +11 per 100 possessions, because the wolves are really really bad without him on the floor.
And if you look at "real plus/minus," which uses regression techniques to wash out the effects of teammates and other factors, then Love is 11th in the league. Even that list doesn't produce a perfectly sensible ranking, but it does have James, Paul, Iggy, Durant and Nowitzki as the top 5. I'll take them over Liggins et al.
So in short: relying on plus/minus analysis (as you chose to), the answer to the question "does he give up so many points that the advantage of his scoring is significantly eroded?" appears to be a resounding no.
good points and i dont disagree, hence my admission that it is a flawed stat and was used after i had invoked other ones. but in response i ask a question, and an honest one, what stat can we use to better address this question?
my question still stands on whether his defense so erodes his overall contributions that he becomes "merely" a very good player, not an elite one. and if it does, that affects what i think his worth is in terms of a trade and paying max salary.
