love rumors detrimental to KO and Sullinger?

[wdleehi]

What is the point of trying to develop both of them at once? 



If you can move one for a major upgrade (and an upgrade to what these guys potentially could be) and still have the other to develop, I don't see the downside. 

[clover]

If a Love trade happens, I doubt very much that we give up both of them.  Personally, I'm hoping that Olynyk's the one who stays.

Me too.

[SHAQATTACK]

If a Love trade happens, I doubt very much that we give up both of them.  Personally, I'm hoping that Olynyk's the one who stays.

Me too.

Me three

[Rakulp]

What an interesting thread.

We have the OP who wants to see our own young talent develop further rather than rolling the dice on overpaying a "star".

Then we have responses that range from KO and Sully's ceiling is Kevin Love...or that someone is delusional if they think they can EVER reach that height.

The truth is...none of us knows the future either way.  It is possible that KO and Sully could end up being "stars" in the future...having both on this team would be a good thing in that situation.

It's also possible that trading for Love (and/or others) might lead to the night when Banner 18 gets hoisted to the ceiling.

We all have opinions...and I respectfully try to understand every viewpoint on this situation.  Begin with respect and the discussions go a lot easier.

June is going to be fun...fireworks don't just happen on the 4th of July!

Rak

[bdm860]

So we should wait for every single player with an inch of potential to develop for years and miss out on top league players?

I love Sully, he's my favorite player on this team behind Rondo, but when you have a chance for a top player in the league, you just do it. It's a no brainer.

It's not like we're talking about Anthony Davis or Andre Drummond being traded.

Are you giving ko and sully a fair chance?? Have we seen sully play with a pro body?? What about KO??

If either players best games were 15 pts , 7 rebounds playing 30 plus min, I dont have an issue trading them. But each produced some incredible numbers several games rookies or not. They just need a better body and put it together

Depending on how long you've been a fan for, I find the best way to bring your expectations in line is to look back at other players and how you felt about them.

Did you think Al Jefferson or Gerald Green would become perennial All-Stars and All-NBA players?

Did you think Kedrick Brown's floor was what Richard Jefferson's career has been?

Did you ever project Marcus Banks or Sebastian Telfair to put up Russell Westbrook or Chris Paul numbers?  Or even Jameer Nelson or Mo Williams numbers?

Was Kendrick Perkins supposed to average 12+ppg, 10+rpg, and 3bpg?

Was Jiri Welsh that next great European player and going to be mentioned in the same breath as Dirk, Kukoc, and Petrovic?

Were guys like Tony Battie, Ryan Gomes, Delonte West, Tony Allen ever supposed to be borderline All-Stars?  At least solid starters playing 30+mpg and averaging 10+ppg on championship contenders for several years?

Were any of JR Bremer, Brandon Hunter, Justin Reed, Orien Greene, Allan Ray, Dwayne Jones, Gabe Pruit, Bill Walker, Lester Hudson, Luke Harangody, Semih Erden, Greg Stiemsma, etc. supposed to be solid rotational players with long NBA careers?

Now I'm not saying you ever thought any of that (though you at least have to admit your rookie year projections for Olynyk were WAY off), but I know I thought some of those things, or at least I hoped for some of those things.  I always like to be optimistic with the Celtics' young players (only guy I was probably never excited about at all was Moiso).  But looking back at what I hoped guys like Kedrick Brown or Gerald Green or Marcus Banks would become, usually helps me curtail my expectations for other guys and makes me willing to trade young prospects for established stars.

[RJ87]

triboy, I get it. You love youth and the untapped potential of what could be. You love the young guys and for some unknown reason think that a group of young guys that have shown little All-NBA potential can make the C's a contender. I get it. I get that your perfect lineup next year would be

Marcus Smart
Phil Pressey
Aaron Gordon
Kelly Olynyk
Jared Sullinger

with guys like Chris Johnson, Noah Vonleh, Jerami Grant, Clint Capella and Shabazz Napier coming off the bench. I think we all get it.

But why wouldn't you trade either or both of Sully and Olynyk, two guys that you hope might some day be as good as Kevin Love, for Kevin Love? Love is just a couple years older than both those players. Why risk it. Just trade them away and some picks for the actual Kevin Love.

The picks aren't the end all be all of how to get assets. Trades and free agency exist and the draft is a major gamble. There's probably a 50% chance that any guy you love and have mentioned wanting the C's to draft is going to be a complete and utter bust. There's probably a 35% chance those players only become role playing bench players, a 10% chance they become starters and a less than 5% chance they become anywhere near as good as Kevin Love.

Smart move is trade for Love and build a team with an age range of the mid 20's to the early 30's, that has some All-Stars(Love and Rondo), tries to get more All-Stars and tries to contend. Its good for the win loss column, its good for the championship aspirations, its good for bottom line business, its good for staying relevant in the very competitive Boston sports market. Its just the right move all around.

Waiting for Sully and Olynyk and the boatload of youth that you want to add will take forever to watch them mature, if ever, into players and a team. Meanwhile, attendance will suffer, business will suffer and the Celtics will be relegated to an afterthought on the Boston sports scene as the Red Sox, Patriots and Bruins continue to compete for championships.

I don't think Grousbeck and Ainge want to go the rebuild with youth route. They have a proven model that got them a ring and another trip to the Finals and years in the playoffs as a title contender. That model is spend some time being mediocre to bad collecting assets(young players and picks and desirable contracts(non-guaranteed and expiring) and trade them away for stars and then attract others to come play with the stars and become an instant contender in a worst to first type situation.

Its worked already. It sure looks like they are trying to do the same thing again.

100% agree.

[blink]

I think one of the important points to remember right now is that Sully and KO have the "potential" to improve and get better, ie their trade value might be more now than if they fail to pan out over a year or two.  The teams that might be willing to include them in a trade are banking on the potential that they have seen over a small sample size.  That in now way shape or form means they are going to turn into quality starter or borderline all stars.  We could watch Sully or KO really struggle next year and maybe wouldn't get as much back in return.

They have had good runs of games and shown potential.  But most of that was with a sub 30 win team that although playing hard, didn't look very good all year.  I think we tend to over rate our young players on this board because we watch all the games and can point to the games when they played really well.

I think the smart play is to grab Love if you can.  If Minn wants Sully or KO as a part of the puzzle  you do it.  We need someone who can score.  Hopefully DA can keep (1) of Sully and KO to develop down the road.  If we want to contend we can't do that with only young developing players.

[D.o.s.]

Kevin Love is yucky, but I'd trade Sullinger for him in a heartbeat -- if only to get Sully off the Celtics.

[the_Bird]

So we should wait for every single player with an inch of potential to develop for years and miss out on top league players?

I love Sully, he's my favorite player on this team behind Rondo, but when you have a chance for a top player in the league, you just do it. It's a no brainer.

It's not like we're talking about Anthony Davis or Andre Drummond being traded.

Are you giving ko and sully a fair chance?? Have we seen sully play with a pro body?? What about KO??

If either players best games were 15 pts , 7 rebounds playing 30 plus min, I dont have an issue trading them. But each produced some incredible numbers several games rookies or not. They just need a better body and put it together

Depending on how long you've been a fan for, I find the best way to bring your expectations in line is to look back at other players and how you felt about them.

Did you think Al Jefferson or Gerald Green would become perennial All-Stars and All-NBA players?

Did you think Kedrick Brown's floor was what Richard Jefferson's career has been?

Did you ever project Marcus Banks or Sebastian Telfair to put up Russell Westbrook or Chris Paul numbers?  Or even Jameer Nelson or Mo Williams numbers?

Was Kendrick Perkins supposed to average 12+ppg, 10+rpg, and 3bpg?

Was Jiri Welsh that next great European player and going to be mentioned in the same breath as Dirk, Kukoc, and Petrovic?

Were guys like Tony Battie, Ryan Gomes, Delonte West, Tony Allen ever supposed to be borderline All-Stars?  At least solid starters playing 30+mpg and averaging 10+ppg on championship contenders for several years?

Were any of JR Bremer, Brandon Hunter, Justin Reed, Orien Greene, Allan Ray, Dwayne Jones, Gabe Pruit, Bill Walker, Lester Hudson, Luke Harangody, Semih Erden, Greg Stiemsma, etc. supposed to be solid rotational players with long NBA careers?

Now I'm not saying you ever thought any of that (though you at least have to admit your rookie year projections for Olynyk were WAY off), but I know I thought some of those things, or at least I hoped for some of those things.  I always like to be optimistic with the Celtics' young players (only guy I was probably never excited about at all was Moiso).  But looking back at what I hoped guys like Kedrick Brown or Gerald Green or Marcus Banks would become, usually helps me curtail my expectations for other guys and makes me willing to trade young prospects for established stars.

Excellent, excellent, excellent post!

And for the record...  I expected Brandon Hunter to be Charles Barkley 2.0!

[Celtics4ever]

I'd trade Sullinger for him in a heartbeat -- if only to get Sully off the Celtics.

You don't like our very poor man's Kyle Korver?

[Tr1boy]

This notion that love is a top player in the same league as lebron or even paul george is a joke

The guy has not made the playoffs in 6 years. Everyone here puts the blame on the lack of support. Yeah right

Look at nowitzki with the lowly mavs. He carried them into the playoffs.

You put nowitzki on the wolves they prob get in.

Love is a horrible defender goal scorer like melo. I dont care about natural abilities more than putting in the effort.  These guys only hope to get anywhere is to play with other stars/overpaid players. Yet still they wont win anything.

Sullinger and KO with better bodies will be better two way players than Love. At worse the combination production will surpass in what love can do. And u give up the 6th also?

There are alot of fans here who are rondo fans. They want love so that rondo will want to stay. You dont build a team that way.  Rondo is not the heart and soul of this team. He has been lucky playing with three future hof and proved to be horrible (losing streaks) since the start of 2012 season. When he went off due to injury we started winning

Love plus rondo is a bad bad combination. (No playoffs in 6 years, no hof support and leading the team to losing streaks)

[IlCapitano]

You could've said right away you just don't like either Love or Rondo.

See you...

[Tr1boy]

You could've said right away you just don't like either Love or Rondo.

See you...

And I said in details why I dont. Im not going to use the glory days or theorize why two above avg players will suddenly make us into a great team

[Fafnir]

This notion that love is a top player in the same league as lebron or even paul george is a joke

Second team all-nba

Got more votes than Aldridge, Paul George who were third team. Also more votes than Dirk.

Dirk had better coaching and better complimentary players 3-6 than Love. Also the Mavs were healthier overall iirc.

[Tr1boy]

This notion that love is a top player in the same league as lebron or even paul george is a joke

Second team all-nba

Got more votes than Aldridge, Paul George who were third team. Also more votes than Dirk.

Which is a joke. Dirk was a better player last season and will prob be a better player this upcoming season at 37.

Its not only about ind stats. Its how you impact/lead your team on both ends of the court