Cavs vs 76rs vs Celtics offer for Love

[colincb]

I don't disagree with your assessment that the deals may be better, but I don't see Love wanting to go to Philadephia in particular:

Sixers were the worst team in the NBA as far as talent at the end of the year. Also, I don't think teams value 2nd rounders so highly that they'd give Philly a really good pick this year rather than take a good player in this year's draft.  Finally, after this draft, PHI is still going to have to tank hard for two years at a MINIMUM.  Don't see Love wanting that.

Cavs  issues are somewhat different. First I'd keep the #1 myself today rather than trade it and a bunch of other assets.  There's one tier at the top of this year's draft. The Embiid tier.  Potential franchise player who is also a 5.

Secondly, I think Cavs have been the worst run franchise in the NBA if not pro sports. Not where I'd want to go if I was Love. New Cavs GM this year, but there's a real ownership issue remaining there too in the Gilberts and it's been a circus.  Love's coming from another situation where management and ownership has been notoriously bad in Kahn and Taylor and I doubt he's giving the Cavs the benefit of the doubt.

I don't think Love's going to force himself to one or two teams, and I don't know that he'd accept us, but if he's rejecting losing cultures, I think CLE and PHI are at the top of the list (NYK should be on that list also, even with Phil Jackson.)

[hondobird33]

I agree that PHI and CLE can make better offers except we can give them better cap flexibility and savings (i.e. Bogan waivable $5m contract).  To make our deal more attractive we not make them take Wallace and instead include Bradley in S&T for Martin ($6.5m) so salaries match and they get rid of Martin's three remaining years (he is 31 yrs. old so does not fit their rebuild plans).  With Bradley they get 23 yr old up and coming player.  Finally, I believe Love through his agent will let these teams know he will not sign and extension since it has been widely reported he wants to either play with a contender (i.e. current playoff team) or a team with a history of success and tradition (i.e. Celtics).             

[Irish Stew]

I have to agree with others here that both Cavs and Sixers deals are clearly better. The problem is that both teams would be risking so much more by trading for Love without an extension agreement. Wiggins and Irving together is really an attractive idea for the Cavs. Parker, Noels and Carter-Williams maturing together as a unit really makes sense too. Right now, all of these guys work cheap too on their rookie contracts. This is the way these two franchises should build their teams but, in the end, there is no guarantee that one, or both, will not make a rash, foolish move for Love. We can only hope that they don't.

[Tr1boy]

imo you guys have to forget about what Love wants.  He doesn't have a no trade clause.  Minny can care less if Love is going to sign an extension with his new team or not. What they care about the most is how much they can get overpaid for love

Love to me is going to promise nobody an extension. I really do believe he wants to play for the Lakers especially since he is from LA , his gf works in LA, family is there etc.  BUT if any team he is traded to makes him excited, gets into the playoffs, he is going to think long and hard to stay with that team.  If the Wolves made the playoffs last season, you think he is going to ask to be traded?

If the cavs, 76ers, celtics are interested in Love, they will know what it will take to get him. What the  others will offer for him. The 76ers 3rd pick likely will be Wiggins or Parker. If the 76ers GM doesn't feel strongly of either, he will have no issues trading it for Love, extension or not. Just like the Celts would trade the 6th pick without hesitation. 

The 76ers lets not forget is not a shy team. They have made so many moves since the last draft, its almost unbelivable. Its like a totally different team now. And i don't think the owner wants to go through another long rebuild to nowhere (like the last one). Instead get some key positions filled (MCW, Noel) then get a legit vet star to propel them into contention very fast.

[saltlover]

I agree that PHI and CLE can make better offers except we can give them better cap flexibility and savings (i.e. Bogan waivable $5m contract).  To make our deal more attractive we not make them take Wallace and instead include Bradley in S&T for Martin ($6.5m) so salaries match and they get rid of Martin's three remaining years (he is 31 yrs. old so does not fit their rebuild plans).  With Bradley they get 23 yr old up and coming player.  Finally, I believe Love through his agent will let these teams know he will not sign and extension since it has been widely reported he wants to either play with a contender (i.e. current playoff team) or a team with a history of success and tradition (i.e. Celtics).             

You realize that Bradley would have to want to go there, right?  Why is Bradley going to want to sign in Minnesota unless they're willing to pay him more than any other team?  And if Minny is willing to do that, would they be getting a good deal?

I think the Celtics can make a very competitive offer (unless Cleveland goes ahead and offers #1, foolishly convinced that they can keep Love), but there's no reason to expect it will be as complicated including a Bradley sign-and-trade.  Sullinger or Olynyk, draft picks, some expiring salary filler like Anthony, and non-guaranteed contracts means Minny has to take on less than $6 million salary for next year.  Its a fine deal all things considered.  But it's not going to be any more complicated than it needs to be, because you don't want your huge deal for Kevin Love hinging on Bradley agreeing to go to Minnesota.  That's begging to have your deal fall through.

[Endless Paradise]

Bradley's a RFA, it's not so much about whether or not Bradley would want to stay there as much as it is about whether Minny would be willing to match any outside offers.

[hondobird33]

I agree with your concerns. You can do the Martin for Bradley (S&T) as a separate deal if needed.  The bottom line is that do make the deal more attractive take out Wallace.  If you did what you suggest as a less complicated deal for only Love then here is an offer that is comparable to PHI and CLE that works in the trade machine:

2104 #6 pick, BOS 2015 1st round pick unprotected, 2017 1st round unprotected (better of BKN & BOS), Sullinger, Bogans ($5m waivable), Bass $6.5m expiring after one more year. Anthony $3.8m expiring in one more year.  If needed the Celts could include one more very valuable first round pick from BKN when could be a lottery team.

Still leaves Celts with Rondo, Green, Olynyk and 5-6 first rounds picks in next four drafts and PP TPE.         

[Tr1boy]

As long as any team that gets love gives the wolves 1) high draft pick or a combination like the 76ers can 2) one or two promising young players and 3) Salary match that doesn't put a long term financial strain the wolves will take the best deal available.

They don't care about anything else. They don't care about what Love does next with his new team.

Like some have said there is a decent chance the cavs don't give up the 1st and rather give minny everyone else they want except Irving.  Doubt Minny takes that offer though

The 76ers and you never know a team like the Magic can also make a play for Love too. They are lacking a legit PF right now and could give them the 4th pick for starters that would in theory still trump what the Celts could give the wolves (6th pick)

In this scenerio i can now understand why some celts fans were upset we won those two or three season ending games.  I swear, it's that little Pressey's fault =]

[saltlover]

Bradley's a RFA, it's not so much about whether or not Bradley would want to stay there as much as it is about whether Minny would be willing to match any outside offers.

Being a restricted free agent means that Bradley would have to agree to sign there.  The celtics can't trade his rights.  If he signs with a team, the Celtics can match that or let him go, but he can't be traded once an offer sheet is signed.  If that occurs, and the Celtics match, he can't be traded until January 15th.  If the Celtics just sign him outright, he can't be traded until January 15th.  If he just signs his qualifying offer, he has an effective no-trade clause for the year.

The only way he could get to Minnesota is via a sign-and-trade, in which he agreed to sign a contract with Minnesota. Or, he just signed a regular contract with Minnesota and the C's don't match.

[saltlover]

I agree with your concerns. You can do the Martin for Bradley (S&T) as a separate deal if needed.  The bottom line is that do make the deal more attractive take out Wallace.  If you did what you suggest as a less complicated deal for only Love then here is an offer that is comparable to PHI and CLE that works in the trade machine:

2104 #6 pick, BOS 2015 1st round pick unprotected, 2017 1st round unprotected (better of BKN & BOS), Sullinger, Bogans ($5m waivable), Bass $6.5m expiring after one more year. Anthony $3.8m expiring in one more year.  If needed the Celts could include one more very valuable first round pick from BKN when could be a lottery team.

Still leaves Celts with Rondo, Green, Olynyk and 5-6 first rounds picks in next four drafts and PP TPE.       

So I think that deal is way too many draft picks, and shouldn't be done unless they're taking Wallace off our hands.  But whatever.  Bass also doesn't need to be included.  Sully, Anthony, Bogans, Babb works fine (or it will in the offseason when Celtics would not be above luxury tax post trade, meaning they can send over less salary).  Save the Wolves $7 million.

[BballTim]

No way id give the #1 pick for love in this draft anything in the top 3 i would probably keep. I would just draft and then if he doesnt get traded then have a  go at him in free agency. either him or lebron again.

that's you. But for the Cavs they weren't even suppose to win the lotto.  Plus like Danny said there is no lebron or durant in this years draft.  They might rather want Love

Otherwise, they could still offer everything under the sun not involving Irving and #1 pick.

To Wolves: Bennett, Thompson, Waiters, 2014 33rd pick, 2016 1st
To Cavs: Love

This still looks like a better deal for Love than what the Celts could offer. You get a pretty good young PF, 2 blue chip prospects in Bennett and Waiters plus some picks.  However if the 76ers offer was on the table, i would take this offer then instead

The 76ers offer with the  3rd and 10th picks would be a home run offer.  In a way even better than the Cavs 1st pick offer

  Aside from the fact that you don't know whether the teams would consider those trades, I don't see why you think the fact that the Cavs weren't expecting the top pick somehow means that they won't have a problem parting with it. If the Celts won the lottery I don't think Danny would be in a rush to trade the pick because he hadn't expected to get it.

[BballTim]

imo you guys have to forget about what Love wants.  He doesn't have a no trade clause.  Minny can care less if Love is going to sign an extension with his new team or not. What they care about the most is how much they can get overpaid for love

Love to me is going to promise nobody an extension. I really do believe he wants to play for the Lakers especially since he is from LA , his gf works in LA, family is there etc.  BUT if any team he is traded to makes him excited, gets into the playoffs, he is going to think long and hard to stay with that team.  If the Wolves made the playoffs last season, you think he is going to ask to be traded?

If the cavs, 76ers, celtics are interested in Love, they will know what it will take to get him. What the  others will offer for him. The 76ers 3rd pick likely will be Wiggins or Parker. If the 76ers GM doesn't feel strongly of either, he will have no issues trading it for Love, extension or not. Just like the Celts would trade the 6th pick without hesitation. 

The 76ers lets not forget is not a shy team. They have made so many moves since the last draft, its almost unbelivable. Its like a totally different team now. And i don't think the owner wants to go through another long rebuild to nowhere (like the last one). Instead get some key positions filled (MCW, Noel) then get a legit vet star to propel them into contention very fast.

    Getting Love isn't going to propel Philly into contention very fast. They'll go into the season with Love, a 2nd year player (MCW), a rookie (Noel) and not much else. If the team looks like it's going nowhere (that team would probably be worse than his Minny team btw) and Love bolts that puts bit hit in their rebuild. Same with the Cavs. Neither team is going to throw away a ton of talent on a one-year rental. Danny's said he'll do the trade without Love agreeing to an extension but you'd expect him to have a good idea whether Love would be receptive to one or not before he pulled the trigger.

[Moranis]

imo you guys have to forget about what Love wants.  He doesn't have a no trade clause.  Minny can care less if Love is going to sign an extension with his new team or not. What they care about the most is how much they can get overpaid for love

Love to me is going to promise nobody an extension. I really do believe he wants to play for the Lakers especially since he is from LA , his gf works in LA, family is there etc.  BUT if any team he is traded to makes him excited, gets into the playoffs, he is going to think long and hard to stay with that team.  If the Wolves made the playoffs last season, you think he is going to ask to be traded?

If the cavs, 76ers, celtics are interested in Love, they will know what it will take to get him. What the  others will offer for him. The 76ers 3rd pick likely will be Wiggins or Parker. If the 76ers GM doesn't feel strongly of either, he will have no issues trading it for Love, extension or not. Just like the Celts would trade the 6th pick without hesitation. 

The 76ers lets not forget is not a shy team. They have made so many moves since the last draft, its almost unbelivable. Its like a totally different team now. And i don't think the owner wants to go through another long rebuild to nowhere (like the last one). Instead get some key positions filled (MCW, Noel) then get a legit vet star to propel them into contention very fast.

    Getting Love isn't going to propel Philly into contention very fast. They'll go into the season with Love, a 2nd year player (MCW), a rookie (Noel) and not much else. If the team looks like it's going nowhere (that team would probably be worse than his Minny team btw) and Love bolts that puts bit hit in their rebuild. Same with the Cavs. Neither team is going to throw away a ton of talent on a one-year rental. Danny's said he'll do the trade without Love agreeing to an extension but you'd expect him to have a good idea whether Love would be receptive to one or not before he pulled the trigger.

exactly, which is why no team is going to mortgage the farm for him and also why all of those offers would never be made by the team making the offer.  Just too much to give up for Love without an extension in place (and I think some of them may be too much even with Love agreeing to an extension).

[bknova]

I have to agree with others here that both Cavs and Sixers deals are clearly better. The problem is that both teams would be risking so much more by trading for Love without an extension agreement. Wiggins and Irving together is really an attractive idea for the Cavs. Parker, Noels and Carter-Williams maturing together as a unit really makes sense too. Right now, all of these guys work cheap too on their rookie contracts. This is the way these two franchises should build their teams but, in the end, there is no guarantee that one, or both, will not make a rash, foolish move for Love. We can only hope that they don't.

I agree with your assessment regarding Philly, they are a long way off and putting together a young nucleus that can grow together for a few years may be beneficial but ultimately is NOT the way to build a team.  Young guys can only play together for so long, they are all trying to get "theirs".  Eventually you'll pick one to build around and jettison the rest.  The way to build around young players is the Washingon method where you bring in vets to humble them and teach them how to be pros.

That aside, Cleveland wasn't supposed to get this pick.  One of the biggest reasons they didn't make the playoffs in the pathetic east is there's too much youth on the roster and they are not playing together.  They need to bring in vets and better players to grow these guys, or use these guys to get better guys.  If they make a pick as opposed to putting win now talent next to Kyrie, they are dooming the franchise into a greater hole than they are in now.  You virtually guaranteed he leaves, and no doubt it will happen again in 4 years with whoever they draft.  You have to make bold moves to create a winning culture.

[Tr1boy]

Even with no promise to resign or opt in for 2015-2016 by Love the 76ers imo have more than enough picks to try to make a Love deal happen . They are not going to keep all their picks and try something big on draft night. Could be to try to move to the 1st spot or make a deal for someone like love

What they could offer (principal pieces)

To Wolves: 10th pick, 32nd, 39th, 47th picks (pretty much all the 2nd round picks if they want), Thad Young + one of their many future 1st


The offer above would beat out ours of the 6th, sullinger and a future 1st