Poll: Who do you want at #6?

[Future Celtics Owner]

Noah Vonleh is an anthony davis type of player. We need someone with the ability to block shots and get steals. Also he can play center if needed.

Vonleh then Randle at #6

[michael 26]

Even though the lottery didn't go our way there are still very good players available. most of the talented guys available are power- forwards which we don't need since we have both Sullinger and Olynyk. Marcus Smart is a great player but he won't be able to play alongside Rondo. Because we Can't pick a Center (since Embiid will probably be taken by the time we pick) I think Danny Ainge should go for a guys like Aaron Gordon or Dario Saric who can play the three.

So i'm asking you to answer regardless of the Kevin Love situation, just who would you like on the Celtics. Please comment why you have made your choice.

I wasn't sure if Julius Randle would be available but I put him there just in case.

[bknova]

If we don't get Kevin Love, we're trading up using 6, 17, and a future 1st.  Thats my prediction and I'm sticking to it!

[hpantazo]

If we don't get Kevin Love, we're trading up using 6, 17, and a future 1st.  Thats my prediction and I'm sticking to it!

I don't think that's enough to trade up. The top 4 teams won't give up their pick unless they get a legit young star in return, like Love, imo.

[hpantazo]

Even though the lottery didn't go our way there are still very good players available. most of the talented guys available are power- forwards which we don't need since we have both Sullinger and Olynyk. Marcus Smart is a great player but he won't be able to play alongside Rondo. Because we Can't pick a Center (since Embiid will probably be taken by the time we pick) I think Danny Ainge should go for a guys like Aaron Gordon or Dario Saric who can play the three.

So i'm asking you to answer regardless of the Kevin Love situation, just who would you like on the Celtics. Please comment why you have made your choice.

I wasn't sure if Julius Randle would be available but I put him there just in case.

Who says Smart can't play alongside Rondo? I think they would work extremely well together.

[Evantime34]

I think it's Gordon if they stay at six.

I see Gordon as a safe pick but with low upside. Saric on the other hand has the highest upside but the biggest risk.

I don't understand this line of thinking. Gordon is the youngest player in the draft and potentially the most athletic with raw offensive skills. To me that means he has the highest upside.

Saric is a 6'10 forward with ok athleticism. Why is he a high upside pick when his biggest talent is skill. It is much harder to improve your athleticism than your skill.

well, the line of thinking that an athlete with poor skills is going to come in and develop great skills just because he's a year younger than a few other guys makes no sense. How many players with great athleticism have been taken in drafts for that reason and have worked out? How many have been busts? The list is huge for busts, I can't think of any that have developed into stars. Gordon's NBAdraft.net profile also clearly states that he will be a great role player, but anyone who drafts him and is expecting a star player will be disappointed.

Saric on the other hand has the skills to become a superstar, he has the much higher upside imo. You can't teach talent, you either have it or you don't/ Ask Bradley, Gerald Green, Javale McGhee, Harold Minor, etc etc how far athleticism gets you and if you can develop talent and skill once you are already 18 and over and in the NBA. It's not like these guys just started playing basketball a few years ago like Embiid, and even Embiid is miles ahead of them on skill.

Athleticism is about genetics, so while you don't expect Gordon to become more skilled, there is a certainty that Saric will not become a plus athlete. So Gordon has a higher upside because the chance he improves his skills to a high level is much higher than the chance Saric  becomes a high level athlete.

That being said painting Gordon as someone who has poor skills is inaccurate. He is a plus ball handler for his position, a solid passer, a high level rebounder and an elite defender. Those are all skills.

How can you say Saric has the upside to become a superstar? Because he is a scorer who scores against slower 4's and shorter 3's that aren't prevalent in the NBA.

You list all the athletes who haven't developed enough skill to match their athleticism. Do you want me to list all the international players who looked great against B competition then came to the nba and were complete busts?

[bucknersrevenge]

I like Gordon a lot. He handles very well for his size. I love his bballiq and passing for his position. I think he has a frame where he could add maybe another 10-15lbs to get stronger but he's got great length, a terrific motor and is versatile enough to guard a few different positions right now and will only get better with experience. I think in the more open court, and pick n roll heavy NBA he will be a better pro than collegiate. I get kind of a Shawn Marion vibe from him although he's a better handler in the open court. He moves very well without the ball. Finds ways to get in on a play. And his shooting issues may be a bit overblown. He actually shot the ball respectably from deep but his FT shooting wasn't good. Gordon said in a recent interview that he shot the ball with a different form on closer shots than he did from further for some reason. Said he is working to correct that flaw and that his shot is coming along now. Again, he's 18 so no reason right now to think that he can't fix that and if he does, look out. His athleticism, you cannot teach but it has "takeover the game" ability. He has that ability to completely change the energy in an arena and on his team. And that is something not every player can do. In Boston, we feed off players like him. They become instant fan favorites. You draft him immediately and worry about the rest later.

[Surferdad]

I like Gordon a lot. He handles very well for his size. I love his bballiq and passing for his position. I think he has a frame where he could add maybe another 10-15lbs to get stronger but he's got great length, a terrific motor and is versatile enough to guard a few different positions right now and will only get better with experience. I think in the more open court, and pick n roll heavy NBA he will be a better pro than collegiate. I get kind of a Shawn Marion vibe from him although he's a better handler in the open court. He moves very well without the ball. Finds ways to get in on a play. And his shooting issues may be a bit overblown. He actually shot the ball respectably from deep but his FT shooting wasn't good. Gordon said in a recent interview that he shot the ball with a different form on closer shots than he did from further for some reason. Said he is working to correct that flaw and that his shot is coming along now. Again, he's 18 so no reason right now to think that he can't fix that and if he does, look out. His athleticism, you cannot teach but it has "takeover the game" ability. He has that ability to completely change the energy in an arena and on his team. And that is something not every player can do. In Boston, we feed off players like him. They become instant fan favorites. You draft him immediately and worry about the rest later.

Sounds like Tony Allen. Will he be better? Nobody knows.

[Evantime34]

I like Gordon a lot. He handles very well for his size. I love his bballiq and passing for his position. I think he has a frame where he could add maybe another 10-15lbs to get stronger but he's got great length, a terrific motor and is versatile enough to guard a few different positions right now and will only get better with experience. I think in the more open court, and pick n roll heavy NBA he will be a better pro than collegiate. I get kind of a Shawn Marion vibe from him although he's a better handler in the open court. He moves very well without the ball. Finds ways to get in on a play. And his shooting issues may be a bit overblown. He actually shot the ball respectably from deep but his FT shooting wasn't good. Gordon said in a recent interview that he shot the ball with a different form on closer shots than he did from further for some reason. Said he is working to correct that flaw and that his shot is coming along now. Again, he's 18 so no reason right now to think that he can't fix that and if he does, look out. His athleticism, you cannot teach but it has "takeover the game" ability. He has that ability to completely change the energy in an arena and on his team. And that is something not every player can do. In Boston, we feed off players like him. They become instant fan favorites. You draft him immediately and worry about the rest later.

Sounds like Tony Allen. Will he be better? Nobody knows.

If Tony Allen was 6'9 with the ability to guard 3 positions. I think he's as much like Scottie Pippen as he is Tony Allen.

[knuckleballer]

I like Gordon a lot. He handles very well for his size. I love his bballiq and passing for his position. I think he has a frame where he could add maybe another 10-15lbs to get stronger but he's got great length, a terrific motor and is versatile enough to guard a few different positions right now and will only get better with experience. I think in the more open court, and pick n roll heavy NBA he will be a better pro than collegiate. I get kind of a Shawn Marion vibe from him although he's a better handler in the open court. He moves very well without the ball. Finds ways to get in on a play. And his shooting issues may be a bit overblown. He actually shot the ball respectably from deep but his FT shooting wasn't good. Gordon said in a recent interview that he shot the ball with a different form on closer shots than he did from further for some reason. Said he is working to correct that flaw and that his shot is coming along now. Again, he's 18 so no reason right now to think that he can't fix that and if he does, look out. His athleticism, you cannot teach but it has "takeover the game" ability. He has that ability to completely change the energy in an arena and on his team. And that is something not every player can do. In Boston, we feed off players like him. They become instant fan favorites. You draft him immediately and worry about the rest later.

Sounds like Tony Allen. Will he be better? Nobody knows.

He's four inches taller than Tony Allen and is even more athletic (his vertical is three inches higher).  He's a guy that does all the little things to win games, but he's not a shooter.  There are some guys who test very well athletically in terms of speed and jumping ability, but it doesn't translate to the court.  Gordon's athleticism is evident throughout the game.  Whether or not he'll be able to improve his shooting, who knows?  But he is the youngest guy in the draft.  At worst, he'll be an excellent defender and glue guy.  I'm not sure if that's worth the sixth pick, but I don't think it would be a waiste of a pick.  If he makes a lot of improvement in his shooting ability, he'll be outstanding.

[indeedproceed]

You list all the athletes who haven't developed enough skill to match their athleticism. Do you want me to list all the international players who looked great against B competition then came to the nba and were complete busts?

I'd like to see this, especially kids with Saric (or, for that Mirotic's) resume. Has a kid ever been this successful and come over and utterly bombed at such a young age? I know there are Viktor Khryapa's and Nikolai Tskitishvili's of the world, but none of those guys had the pedigree of Saric or Mirotic.

But I think the reservations so many people (me included, I like Saric, don't love him, especially at 6) are the same reservations that are leading Saric's father to likely maneuver his son towards signing a 3 year contract with a premier club in Europe and getting him at least 2 years of Euroleague experience.

[BleedGreen1989]

I'm stuck between Gordon/Smart/Vonleh.

Will likely talk myself into (and out of) each of them leading up to the draft.

[hpantazo]

I think it's Gordon if they stay at six.

I see Gordon as a safe pick but with low upside. Saric on the other hand has the highest upside but the biggest risk.

I don't understand this line of thinking. Gordon is the youngest player in the draft and potentially the most athletic with raw offensive skills. To me that means he has the highest upside.

Saric is a 6'10 forward with ok athleticism. Why is he a high upside pick when his biggest talent is skill. It is much harder to improve your athleticism than your skill.

well, the line of thinking that an athlete with poor skills is going to come in and develop great skills just because he's a year younger than a few other guys makes no sense. How many players with great athleticism have been taken in drafts for that reason and have worked out? How many have been busts? The list is huge for busts, I can't think of any that have developed into stars. Gordon's NBAdraft.net profile also clearly states that he will be a great role player, but anyone who drafts him and is expecting a star player will be disappointed.

Saric on the other hand has the skills to become a superstar, he has the much higher upside imo. You can't teach talent, you either have it or you don't/ Ask Bradley, Gerald Green, Javale McGhee, Harold Minor, etc etc how far athleticism gets you and if you can develop talent and skill once you are already 18 and over and in the NBA. It's not like these guys just started playing basketball a few years ago like Embiid, and even Embiid is miles ahead of them on skill.

Athleticism is about genetics, so while you don't expect Gordon to become more skilled, there is a certainty that Saric will not become a plus athlete. So Gordon has a higher upside because the chance he improves his skills to a high level is much higher than the chance Saric  becomes a high level athlete.

That being said painting Gordon as someone who has poor skills is inaccurate. He is a plus ball handler for his position, a solid passer, a high level rebounder and an elite defender. Those are all skills.

How can you say Saric has the upside to become a superstar? Because he is a scorer who scores against slower 4's and shorter 3's that aren't prevalent in the NBA.

You list all the athletes who haven't developed enough skill to match their athleticism. Do you want me to list all the international players who looked great against B competition then came to the nba and were complete busts?

Athleticism also tends to go early in some of these players from injury and/or overuse and age, and then they are relatively useless (Shawn Marion, Amare Stoudemire, Gerald Wallace, Shawn Kemp are just a few examples). Players like Saric don't need to become athletic in order to be successful, that is the whole point. They already have what it takes. Dirk has done well without athleticism, so did Bird, so did Pierce. Jabari Parker is not highly athletic, does that make him any less valuable? Olynyk was a great example of choosing a player on skills rather than athleticism. I see Saric as a taller Dragic, which is an all-star in this league. Is he an all-NBA defender? No, but we need a scorer badly. What does Gordon do that makes him a potential all-star? I like Gordon a lot actually, but his upside is not huge, and he can potentially be a taller Tony Allen, which is great as a role player, not as one of your top 3 stars. Saric has the skills to be one of the best 3 players to come out of this draft, and a lot of GMs will kick themselves for passing up on him.

The other guy I would strongly consider at 6 is Smart. He's a tough as nails competitor with a ton of skill, I think he is a rare type of player. Sure he can't shoot, but he can get to the line with the best of them. Rondo's problem has been much more that he doesn't want to get to the line and can't hit free throws than the quality of his jumper.

[KG Living Legend]

 Assuming Parker, Wiggins, Embid ,Exum, are gone. Who do you risk your job for, and pound the table for, as the New GM this is your first year on the job. Screw up and your out the door. For the purpose of this discussion anyone else in the draft is available who do you take with the sixth pick in the 2014 NBA Draft.

[hpantazo]

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=71113.msg1668971#new