How pathetic is Miami?

[csfansince60s]

Bron is one of best players in the history of the game.  Shame so many people are still seething in jealous rage over his success... they are missing out on watching one of the greatest ever during his peak.

Ty Cobb was one of the greatest baseball players ever, but it doesn't mean that I had to enjoy watching him play, because as a person  he was an anal orifice.

Ty Cobb made Donald Sterling look like Martin Luther King.

I don't like LeBroid James and it has nothing to do with jealousy. It has to do with his smug, pretentious persona. 

[mgent]

Bron is one of best players in the history of the game.  Shame so many people are still seething in jealous rage over his success... they are missing out on watching one of the greatest ever during his peak.

Wow, you have seriously taken the saying-outlandish-things-to-get-a-response-thing to a new level on this one.

[LarBrd33]

Bron is one of best players in the history of the game.  Shame so many people are still seething in jealous rage over his success... they are missing out on watching one of the greatest ever during his peak.

Just because I don't like someone doesn't mean I'm jealous of them. Just because you want to watch and cheer him on doesn't mean we have to. Are you seriously trying to make us believe you follow and cheer and are happy to see every great player you are able to watch? You must love every great player to ever play, probably follow Kobe's every move. Fab Melo made it to the NBA, maybe I'm jealous of him b.c I can't even play half as good as that flop. Dislike doesn't always mean jealousy. I don't care how you feel about him, I don't watch basketball based on what others think.

I said it before in another thread... this majority of this forum's mentality towards LeBron reminds me of my mentality towards Jordan when I was 11 years old.   Jordan was in the midst of his first 3 titles... I hated the guy.  I hated that he was the "new kid on the block".  I felt like his rise took away from my man Larry Bird.  I hated that the refs gave him such preferential treatment.  I hated that everyone was glorifying him... it's not like he was dealing with the tough teams of the 80s or anything... weak competition.  Pssh.

But then after he retired and came back... it was hard not to root for him (especially since at that point Boston was completely irrelevant and I lived in Seattle... it was pretty hard to follow the lowly Celtics before the internet)...   How could you not just respect the greatness that was Michael Jordan?  The dude was a freakin phenom.  I stopped hating him. 

Ya'll remind me of when I was 11.  Boston doesn't have any longstanding feud with the Miami Heat.  It's not like this guy is playing for the Lakers.  I didn't lose any sleep over his first two championships.  Just let it go and enjoy it.   He's incredible.   The idea that he hasn't had any competition is debatable.   He beat the MIghty Spurs (arguably past their prime, I guess) which is akin to JOrdan beating the mighty Lakers (arguably past their prime, I guess).   He beat Kevin Durant.  It's not like this guy is rolling over the Jason Kidd New Jersey Nets or the Iverson 76ers... he's knocked off two darn fine teams.

I feel like the Boston/Miami rivalry is silly.  Our most recent rivals were the Rasheed Wallace Pistons and the Kobe Lakers.  Miami's rise happened after we stopped being legitimate contenders.  Yeah, I guess you could say LeBron was a "rival", because he almost knocked us off by himself in 2008... and we happened to meet him a few times in the playoffs.... but I've always had respect for his skill.  And by the time we met Miami in the playoffs, we really weren't contenders anymore.  We were more just the overachievers who were giving them a tough series... kinda like Atlanta back in 2008 when they pushed us to 7 games.  Maybe Atlanta considered us their hated rivals... I just thought they were some overachieving team we happened to beat in the playoffs.

[D.o.s.]

I feel like the Boston/Miami rivalry is silly.  Our most recent rivals were the Rasheed Wallace Pistons and the Kobe Lakers.  Miami's rise happened after we stopped being legitimate contenders.  Yeah, I guess you could say LeBron was a "rival", because he almost knocked us off by himself in 2008... and we happened to meet him a few times in the playoffs.... but I've always had respect for his skill.  And by the time we met Miami in the playoffs, we really weren't contenders anymore.  We were more just the overachievers who were giving them a tough series... kinda like Atlanta back in 2008 when they pushed us to 7 games.  Maybe Atlanta considered us their hated rivals... I just thought they were some overachieving team we happened to beat in the playoffs.

I agree with this.

It's kind of how almost every West Coast team has "a rivalry" with the Lakers, even though that team really only saw the Celtics as an actual rival. Getting beat consistently does not a rivalry make.

I will say, though, that LeBron, Bosh, and Wade did collectively have a rivalry with the Celtics, for sure.

[Celtics4ever]

Aren't people allowed to have different attitudes w/o being called jealous here though?   Everyone is entitled to an opinion just as you are entitled to yours.  I don't care for LeBron as a person but one has to concede he is a great player.

Honestly, I root against all guys not on C's when we are playing them.  I had a hard time rooting against KG and PP this year, real hard when we played them.  I respected Jordan but I never not thought he was not a great player.   My favorite was Larry Bird when he played.     My feelings toward did not change with the come back.   I was most amazed by how Rodman had projected himself as a superstar with antics and hard play to be on a level almost big three with Jordan, Pippen and Rodman.   He was a specialist in blue collar work.   I am not sure any other rebound/defensive guy has marketed himself better and be considered a superstar as he was folks.   Bill Russell, scored 16 PPG or so and Rodman only 7 PPG.  I had friends who jumped on the MJ bandwagon but I just don't have it in me to root for a team that isn't the Celtics.   I wish PP and KG well but I only watched enough of the games to confirm that the refs are a joke regarding LeBron.

There was a huge FTA  discrepency last night.   This is often explained by one team being more aggressive and driving but one player shot 17 of the 31 FT and it was an off shooting night for him.   Hmm.

[staticcc]

Bron is one of best players in the history of the game.  Shame so many people are still seething in jealous rage over his success... they are missing out on watching one of the greatest ever during his peak.

Ty Cobb was one of the greatest baseball players ever, but it doesn't mean that I had to enjoy watching him play, because as a person  he was an anal orifice.

Ty Cobb made Donald Sterling look like Martin Luther King.

I don't like LeBroid James and it has nothing to do with jealousy. It has to do with his smug, pretentious persona.

This got to me. Just because we watch these guys all the time on TV does not mean we know them personally. I used to work at a Casino in Las Vegas and believe me, Lebron is 10x more humble than MJ and even guys like Antoine Walker and Chris Webber. LBJ would smile, make jokes and talk to people politely while MJ won't even look at your face! On the court, he flops and whines all the time but let's not act like players are the same PEOPLE off the court.

[MISSERY]

until d-wade or ray allen retires, no more championships for lebron, time to move to another team

[Celtics18]

LB33,

My stance on Lebron James is that I give him his full due for his greatness.  He's earned that.  I also have no problem with him "as a person," as many fans seem to.  Sure, he's a bit arrogant, but c'mon, how could you not be if you are Lebron James?

That said, I still root against him and his Heat.  I'm not a fan of the "superstar" model.  I realize that the superstars generally win, but I'll always root for a team with lesser stars that plays a good, hard nosed brand of team basketball to beat the superstar teams.  It's why I was pulling so hard for the Grizzlies to beat the Thunder in this year's playoffs, for example. 

The last thing I want to see in these playoffs is a Thunder/Miami Finals.  Spurs/Pacers would be a great matchup as far as I'm concerned.  I know it wouldn't be the sexiest match up for the money makers, but it's what I'm pulling for. 

[D.o.s.]

Just because we watch these guys all the time on TV does not mean we know them personally. I used to work at a Casino in Las Vegas and believe me, Lebron is 10x more humble than MJ and even guys like Antoine Walker and Chris Webber. LBJ would smile, make jokes and talk to people politely while MJ won't even look at your face! On the court, he flops and whines all the time but let's not act like players are the same PEOPLE off the court.

Important enough to be reiterated.

[Donoghus]

Not that I necessarily agree with it but I can understand some of the irrational hatred for Lebron.  Whoever said you had to be rational when it comes to sports? 

To this day, I have an absolute hatred for Jason Kidd.  All stems from 2002.  Can't stand the guy.  Pains me that KG & Pierce had to play under him this year.  That hatred isn't going away anytime soon.  Is it rational?  No.  Do I necessarily care or need to find a way to cope with it?  Not really.

I actually like Lebron.  He's one heckuva baskeball player and I truly believe we're watching one of the top 10 basketball players of all time.  I don't know if he'll get on par with or surpass Jordan but he's a special talent.  That being said, I absolutely have been rooting against the Heat since that trio came together.  2012 still stings.  I was actually at Game 6 and that might be the best performance I've ever seen in person.  Losing that series still sucks, though.

[D.o.s.]

On the plus side, you got to see what might be the last vintage KG moment of his career.

So jelly.

[LarBrd33]

LB33,

My stance on Lebron James is that I give him his full due for his greatness.  He's earned that.  I also have no problem with him "as a person," as many fans seem to.  Sure, he's a bit arrogant, but c'mon, how could you not be if you are Lebron James?

That said, I still root against him and his Heat.  I'm not a fan of the "superstar" model.  I realize that the superstars generally win, but I'll always root for a team with lesser stars that plays a good, hard nosed brand of team basketball to beat the superstar teams.  It's why I was pulling so hard for the Grizzlies to beat the Thunder in this year's playoffs, for example. 

The last thing I want to see in these playoffs is a Thunder/Miami Finals.  Spurs/Pacers would be a great matchup as far as I'm concerned.  I know it wouldn't be the sexiest match up for the money makers, but it's what I'm pulling for.

I've heard you say something like that before and I respect that.   Unfortunately, it's a superstar's league.  Championships are won by Superstars.  More so than any team sport.  You need the top guys to win.  I get that you'd prefer to root for the scrappy underdogs, but with the exception of the 2004 Pistons (who technically had 4 all-stars), it's usually the superstars who get it. 

I actually like it.  I like that we had the Bill Russell era... the Bird/Magic era... the Jordan era... the Shaq/Duncan era.  We are firmly in the LeBron era right now.  I've said it before... "league parity" would ruin the prestige of the title, imo.  I don't like the idea of Memphis winning one year, then Charlotte, then Atlanta... etc.   It's kind of cool that the league is dominated by the gods of basketball.  LeBron is the latest in a short list of them.

I think it's an appealing part of the league.  It's not just a willy-nilly random champion every year... the NBA championship actually matters.   If LeBron falls this year, it's meaningful.  It's not just the roll of a dice... like some leagues.   There's been like 11 teams that have won titles in the past 40 years.   This is Miami's era.

[D.o.s.]

Y'all might dig this bit of analysis a lot:

http://wagesofwins.com/2014/05/10/the-myth-of-the-pistons-model/

[LarBrd33]

Y'all might dig this bit of analysis a lot:

http://wagesofwins.com/2014/05/10/the-myth-of-the-pistons-model/

I found something similar when I was creating a chart showing that pretty much every single champion had a Top 6 player on their team.  Ben Wallace was a beast.  He statistically was one of the Top players in the league... averaging 13-15 boards, 3 blocks and a couple steals.  He was a 4x Defensive Player of the Year.  He was a defensive superstar during his peak.  And the Pistons had 3 other players on that team who made the all-star team during that era.

Anyways... this is the Miami era.  I'd prefer boston to win every year, but I don't lose sleep over LeBron reaching his potential.  It's good for the league.  I feel like the NBA dynamic is very different from the other leagues.  The expectation that great players will eventually win championships...   Durant should get there eventually.   Different from the MLB/NFL where it seems like every year another random team lucks into a championship.   It makes them somewhat forgettable.   I get why the individuality of this team sport can turn people off, but this is the NBA.  It's always been like this.  I love it.

It's hard to compare the NBA to the Pro Wrestling in a non-sarcastic/positive way, but I'll try to do it.   When WCW had Hulk Hogan, Sting and Goldberg exchanging the belt back and forth, it gave the championship prestige, then when it started changing every week to the likes of David Arquette and Vince Russo, it suddenly made the championship pointless.  You expect to see superstars like Stone Cold and The Rock winning the WWE... if every schlub wrestler like Eddie Guerrero and Bradshaw is winning it, it takes away the belt's aura.   Same in real sports like Boxing... when it was Ali, Foreman, Frazier winning the heavy-weight title... and later Tyson/Hollyfield, it made "Heavy-Weight Champion of the World" matter... Then when it's changing once a year to the likes of Herbie Hide, John Ruiz and Lamon Brewster... who cares.    I love that the NBA Championship matters.  LeBron is a key part of NBA history.  We can connect his era to our Larry Bird era and Bill Russell era.  Right now the league belongs to King James.   It's a cute to imagine the Wizards shocking the world and winning the title this year, but I'd personally find it lame.  Luckily, it basically never happens.  It would be completely unprecedented for the Wizards to win the championship this year.   

Here's hoping we land a superstar of our own (through the draft or trade) and start a new era of Celtic greatness.  It'll likely happen after LeBron's run is over... or never.  Such is the NBA title... only the elite teams (lead by elite players) get to win it.

[ScoobyDoo]

I hate that LeBron has lead to some frustrating losses for the Celtics.
I hated "The Decision" and I hate the persona of the Miami Heat.
But I don't hate LeBron's game - he's a great player.

I just don't think that during his title runs the last three years that he has had to get through any legit prime time player or team to get them. Therefore I "do not" put him in Bird, Jordan or Magic's level at this point.

If the argument is that Lebron has Bosh and Wade and those three are today's Miami Heat's equivalent to Boston's original big three of Bird, McHale and Parish, who exactly then, has been the Heat's Jabbar, Magic and Worthy? What team has been the Heat's Pistons Bad Boys rival that Jordan had to get through?

The answer is no one. All the teams have either been too young or well past their prime.

Again, put a 29 year old Pierce and a 30 year old KG on this year's Nets team, Miami loses 4-1, maybe 4-2.

if the Celtics somehow swung deals for Asik and love, drafted Aaron Gordon and brought Pierce back - I don't think the Heat would get by us next year.

Asik / Faverani
Love / Olynk
Green / Pierce   
Bradley / Gordon
Rondo / Pressey

I'll take my chances - Rondo, Love and Pierce (even at his age, too mentally tough). Heat Lose.

I just don't see a Rondo / Love level duo, in their prime with a decent supporting cast standing in the Heat's way.

Replace Stevenson and George with Durant and Westbrook on Indiana and now you have a legit prime time contender the likes of which Magic, Jordan and Bird had to get through to win their rings. Not to mention the absolute wars Jordan and Bird had to go through in the East to even get to the Lakers...