Author Topic: What's your Big Board?  (Read 7128 times)

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What's your Big Board?
« on: May 12, 2014, 09:16:53 PM »

Offline loco_91

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top 3, top 15, whatever: Who you got?

[edited to add in Vonleh]

1. Joel Embiid

Embiid went from absolute nobody to college superstar in one year. He intimidated at the rim and was extremely effective on offense despite constant double teams. Unless his back problems continue, no other prospect has either a higher ceiling or a higher floor.

2. Dante Exum

Exum has demonstrated great quickness, handles, finishing, passing, and feel for the game. His jump shot is questionable, but his form looks good. He certainly has the tools and the BBIQ to be great on D, though it's harder to evaluate. The only concern with Exum is that he hasn't been tested as much against top competition.

3. Jabari Parker

Parker projects as a subpar defender, but part of the issue might be that as the #1 scorer on his team, he simply didn't feel like he had to give max effort on D. Even if his D stays bad, his scoring might be good enough to make up for it.

4. Andrew Wiggins

I ranked Wiggins this low because his offensive skillset is really mediocre. He is a poor finisher at the rim and a poor dribbler, and his jumper is neither a weakness nor a strength. However, he has significant potential on offense, and his defense is reputably great. Does he have the passion and drive to realize his upside?

5. Marcus Smart

Smart is arguably the #1 defensive prospect in this draft not named Joel Embiid. His BBIQ and anticipation is outstanding, which also bodes well for his as-yet-underdeveloped PG skills. His shot is a big question mark, but he makes up for it by getting to the FT line at will.

6. Aaron Gordon

Gordon should not be compared to Blake Griffin. Gordon is a far better defender and a far worse scorer. He won't create his own shot, which limits his star potential, but he is an elite finisher at the rim, so the pairing with Rondo would be exciting. Gordon would be a more exciting prospect if he could add 20lb of muscle, which would give him the ability to defend NBA PF's. Right now, he is too skinny to play the 4 and his shooting is too bad to play the 3.

7. Jusuf Nurkic

Nurkic is posting really, really great stats against strong Adriatic League competition. His defense needs work, as he frequently fouls out of games, but he has the tools to be a good rim protector. Meanwhile, he could be a dominant offensive center with his bulk (280lb) and post skills, including a killer spin move.

8. Noah Vonleh

Vonleh is a prototypical raw, high-potential big man type. He has great size for a PF to go along with a promising jump shot. I have him ranked behind Nurkic based largely on stats: 26.5p/40 on 52% 2p% in NCAA, vs 23/28p/40 on 59/56% in far stronger Adriatic Leage/ Eurocup competition. Nurkic also gets more blocks and far more steals.

9. Nik Stauskas

Stauskas is a killer offensive weapon, but he projects as a poor defender. I think his incredible physical transformation last offseason, adding 15lb of muscle, bodes well for his future development.

10. KJ McDaniels

McDaniels played for a really bad Clemson team, which explains why he hasn't gotten much attention. But he plays elite defense and has good upside on offense too, what with his athleticism and midrange jumper.

11. Doug McDermott

Ougie Fresh projects as a serious defensive liability one-on-one, but I think his intelligent team defense and incredible scoring ability can make up for it to an extent. He needs to play on a team with a great rim protector, as he will probably have to play SF due to his short wingspan and most NBA SF's will be able to blow by him at will. [edit: I'm starting to regret putting McDermott this high... one point is that his defensive issues also correlate with offensive translation concerns, as he did get a lot of his points in the paint and at the FT line.]

12. Tyler Ennis

Ennis doesn't have the size and athleticism of a potential all-star, but he has great skills and should be a pretty safe pick outside the top 10.

13. Clint Capela

Capela has good stats, size and athleticism.

14. Gary Harris

Harris is a lockdown defender, and he has some offensive upside too.

15. Dario Saric

Saric has positional issues-- will he be a small PF or a slow SF? Another question mark is that he isn't that good off the ball, and might not be skilled enough to be featured on offense. I think he'll be an excellent sixth man.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 04:56:03 PM by loco_91 »

Re: What's your Big Board?
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2014, 09:32:09 PM »

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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I have to disagree with a lot of that, but overall I think you have an interesting take. 

First disagreement: I don't think Nurkic, Stauskas or McDermott are worth being selected that high, solely because of their defensive liabilities.  They're all in the mid teens for me.  If they're offensive games don't translate within two seasons, they're literally worthless.  There are guys that have a floor of at least being a rotation player that I would take ahead of them like Gary Harris, for instance.  Similar ceiling, much higher floor.

I'm sort of a hypocrite though, because I would absolutely take Saric as high as 5th overall.  His biggest defect right now is defense at least from what I've seen, which is mediocre in the Adriatic League but he will get chewed up in the NBA, at least at first.  I still think he has just loads of potential - the Adriatic is no joke and he was just named regular season and finals MVP at age 19.  It's definitely more competitive than the NCAA and that is a big deal.  I really, really like his game and if he doesn't come over for a year and we have to tank again, I'm fine with it.

Exum on the other hand is in the Australian league, which might be slightly more competitive than the NCAA but then again, maybe not.  I don't have a problem taking him second though, he is going to be a star. 

I also agree with Embiid #1 overall.  I would take Wiggins over Jabari, but I would be so happy with either I don't think I'd really care.

Re: What's your Big Board?
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2014, 09:40:26 PM »

Offline loco_91

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I have to disagree with a lot of that, but overall I think you have an interesting take. 

First disagreement: I don't think Nurkic, Stauskas or McDermott are worth being selected that high, solely because of their defensive liabilities.  They're all in the mid teens for me.  If they're offensive games don't translate within two seasons, they're literally worthless.  There are guys that have a floor of at least being a rotation player that I would take ahead of them like Gary Harris, for instance.  Similar ceiling, much higher floor.

I'm sort of a hypocrite though, because I would absolutely take Saric as high as 5th overall.  His biggest defect right now is defense at least from what I've seen, which is mediocre in the Adriatic League but he will get chewed up in the NBA, at least at first.  I still think he has just loads of potential - the Adriatic is no joke and he was just named regular season and finals MVP at age 19.  It's definitely more competitive than the NCAA and that is a big deal.  I really, really like his game and if he doesn't come over for a year and we have to tank again, I'm fine with it.

Exum on the other hand is in the Australian league, which might be slightly more competitive than the NCAA but then again, maybe not.  I don't have a problem taking him second though, he is going to be a star. 

I also agree with Embiid #1 overall.  I would take Wiggins over Jabari, but I would be so happy with either I don't think I'd really care.

In terms of defensive shortcomings, it's all a matter of degree. Thinking harder about it you're probably right about McDermott, hard as it is for me to get past his epic offensive stats. For Stauskas and Nurkic, I'm a little less worried. Stauskas isn't quick laterally but it doesn't seem like a crippling weakness. Nurkic is raw, but with his tools there's definitely a good chance that he'll be at least average as a rim protector.

Re: What's your Big Board?
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2014, 10:00:37 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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Julius randle and Noah vonaleh not in the top 14?!


KG: "Dude.... What is up with yo shorts?!"

CBD_2016 Cavs Remaining Picks - 14.14

Re: What's your Big Board?
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2014, 10:07:24 PM »

Offline loco_91

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Wow, Vonleh was a big oversight. I should slot him in at #7. Randle I'm not high on, late teens seems about right for him.

Re: What's your Big Board?
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2014, 10:24:59 PM »

Offline Aymanelgowainy

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My draft Big Board:
1. Embiid
2. Wiggins
3. Jabari
4. Exum
5. Vonleh
6. Gordon
7. Smart
8. Randle
9. Ennis
10. Stauskas
11. McDermott
12. Harris
13. Nurkic
14. Saric
15. Zach Lavine

Re: What's your Big Board?
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2014, 11:11:01 PM »

Offline footey

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TP to the OP for putting this out.  Some original thought here, some of which I agree. Well done.  I just gave you your first TP.

Re: What's your Big Board?
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2014, 01:32:22 PM »

Offline Hawkeye199

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In Ainge we must trust

 if you look at the  redo of the 2013 draft kelly olynick is no listed at 5 when he was drafted 13. Ainge is Amazing at the draft. As fans we have to trust him.
zach lavine-jeremy lin-tyus jones
jeremy lamb-tyshen prince-Andre miller
will barton- beljina-
Kevin love-kevin garnet-payne
Karl anthoney Towns-JJ hickson

Re: What's your Big Board?
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2014, 01:49:23 PM »

Offline lon3lytoaster

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Parker
Embiid
Wiggins
Exum
Randle
Smart
Nurkic (!)
Gordon

Top-8 for the worst case scenario (8th pick)

Re: What's your Big Board?
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2014, 01:58:19 PM »

Offline arctic 3.0

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1-8
1: Embiid or wiggins
2: wiggins or Embiid (just can't make up my mind,TG rats Danny's job)
3: exum
4: Gordon (d over o)
5: Parker (see above)
6: vonleh
7: saric
8: Randell

17: Anderson

Re: What's your Big Board?
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2014, 01:59:33 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Wow, Vonleh was a big oversight. I should slot him in at #7. Randle I'm not high on, late teens seems about right for him.

Not too late to edit your post.  Just click "Modify".

NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: What's your Big Board?
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2014, 04:27:33 PM »

Offline notthebowler

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My top 10:

1) Embiid
2) Parker
3) Wiggins
4) Exum
5) Smart
6) Randle
7) McDermott
8) Stauskas
9) Nurkic
10) Saric

After the top 5 it gets tough for me.  I'm one of the few that thinks McDermott will be a really good pro.  I know I'm not the only one, but we are definitely outnumbered.  Gordon and Vonleh were not accidental omissions.  I'm just not a fan of either.

Re: What's your Big Board?
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2014, 05:41:33 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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This is so much better than arguing over how overrated (or not) various Celtic players might be (Rondo/Green/Bradley) and whether they should be traded (or not) for a bag of socks or a chest of gold.

Here's my 'big board' for the C's.    Top 20 + 1.   Note - this is NOT how I expect them to get picked.  This is just the order in which I would rank them if I got to be Danny for the day:

1. Wiggins - Highest upside potential relative to his position (SG) of the top 3.
2. Embiid or Parker - nudge to Embiid because he's a 7 footer.
3. Parker or Embiid
4. Exum - though I'm waffling on dropping him based on uncertainty.  Looking forward to reports from the combine, if anything useful comes out on him.   On paper and limited video he looks impressive.
5. Gordon - sure, his FT shooting is suspect, but his athleticism and defense and general BBIQ are unreal.   Think Tony Allen on steroids but who doesn't make bonehead plays on offense.   If he is even average value on offense in the NBA, this kid has a chance to eventually be a perennial candidate for DPOY.
6. Vonleh - Raw physicals imply too much upside to pass on.
7. Saric - Sure he may be another 'tweener.  But this dude is a total baller.  Unbelievably competitive.
8. Smart - I don't see a great fit for him on the C's, but he's too good of a player.   Possible trade.

Since we are not picking lower than 8th with our first pick, it makes sense to draw a line here.

From this point, we are hoping that either a player falls to our 2nd pick or Danny moves around in the draft via trade.

9.  Nurkic - Huge.  Fast feet.  Great post potential.  Hot head.  What's not to like?
10. Randle - Bad fit for C's, but probably the the clear BPA at this point (if not earlier) so maybe you trade him?
11. McBuckets - Another tweener, so comes with defensive questions.  But smart enough that I wouldn't be _too_ worried.   Man, is this kid a scoring machine, though!  I suspect with hypnosis, he can be transformed into an elite defender as well.
12. Ennis / Harris / Stauskas  - I flip flop on these three guys constantly.  'Depends what you want out of that extra guard.
13. Ennis / Harris / Stauskas
14. Ennis / Harris / Stauskas
15. Kyle Anderson - yeah, yeah, yet another 'tweener' (PG/SF), but a 6' 9" player with his point-skills is something special.
16. T.J. Warren - Hmm.... how did he slip all the way down here?
17. Capela - if I'm determined to take a center in this draft, I take Capela next.  I suspect this is over-ranking him, though, based on the weakness of the position in this draft.
18. James Young - just a solid, overall wing.
19. K.J. McDaniels - another solid, overall wing.
20. Walter Tavares - like Capela, if I'm determined to take a center...   Similar concerns as with Capela, though Walter is like Vonleh with some ridiculous physicals that are intriguing.
21. Shabazz Napier - yes, this is probably ranking him way too high, but this is to indicate that I would love for Danny to scrounge up an extra pick and somehow take this kid.  He is just a delight to watch play basketball and seems like a fantastic kid.

If you ask me how I'd rank these guys next week, it will likely be different!
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: What's your Big Board?
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2014, 08:05:03 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Mine is going to be different.  I'll go 20 deep.  This is not at all how I see the draft going, or best fit for C's.  It's my opinion of best player available.

1) Wiggins
2) Exum
3) Parker
4) Vonleh
5) Embiid
6) Smart
7) Gordon
8) Randle
9) McDermott
10 ) Saric
11) Harris
12) Stauskas
13) Kyle Anderson
14) Nurkic
15) Young
16) Ennis
17) Capela
18) TJ Warren
19) Bogdanovic
20) Rodney Hood
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 08:10:40 PM by saltlover »

Re: What's your Big Board?
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2014, 10:39:53 PM »

Offline loco_91

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Mine is going to be different.  I'll go 20 deep.  This is not at all how I see the draft going, or best fit for C's.  It's my opinion of best player available.

1) Wiggins
2) Exum
3) Parker
4) Vonleh
5) Embiid
6) Smart
7) Gordon
8) Randle
9) McDermott
10 ) Saric
11) Harris
12) Stauskas
13) Kyle Anderson
14) Nurkic
15) Young
16) Ennis
17) Capela
18) TJ Warren
19) Bogdanovic
20) Rodney Hood

Care to justify why you have Embiid at #5, in particular behind Vonleh?