Pistons/Kings and Celtics trade idea - rebuild plan

[Tr1boy]

To Pistons : Sullinger and Green
To Celtics : 2014 8th pick and Monroe (Signs 3 year at 12 million a year)

To Kings: Rondo
To Celtics: 2014 7th pick and Jason Thompson

Draft
Trade 5th and 8th pick for 1st pick
1st pick - Andrew Wiggins
7th pick- Aaron Gordon
17th pick - Elfrid Payton

Starting Lineup
C- Monroe - He can score (inside-out), gifted  passing skills, good rebounder and provides effort on both ends. Not a defensive stopper but is a good team defender and has good size/wingspan/reach for a Center. Has excelled playing the Center position

PF- Olynyk - Ready for a breakout year.  Will come next season with a better body and confidence to help contribute on both ends. Especially on the offensive end. Monroe and KO duo could be a terror on the offensive end just by utilizing their passing skills alone

SF - Gordon - Super role player. Tremendous defender that can guard 4 positions. Just by utilizing his explosiveness can score many difficult buckets many can't. Good passing skills. High IQ

SG- Wiggins -  The most athletic player from the 2014 draft.  Can take over games on a nightly basis, but just needs the confidence to do it. Underrated defender

PG - Payton - Big game player. Nice height for a pg (6'3) and length (6'7).  Able to drive and acrobatically get baskets in.  Has pure pg skills and is an excellent defender.  Needs to work on his jumper, but can hit the wide open jump shots.

Bench

Thompson
Bass
Wallace
Johnson
Pressey
FA - Scorer


These are surprising transactions i can see unfolding on draft night. Detroit needs to fill in other needs and they already have Drummond as their center. Monroe is better at playing the center spot. Sacramento will miss out on Exum and Smart and will turn to trading their pick for Rondo. Sure he won't promise to resign, but they don't have to give up Mclemore and can trade Rondo by trade deadline worse case. Team really needs to get into the playoffs next season.

For the Celtics we get to rebuild plus be wannabe contenders at the same time. Having Gordon, Wiggins, Payton is a terrific long term plan. Likely we won't make the playoffs next season , but in a year or two should be one of the top teams from the east. 

thoughts?

[Lucky17]

If celts are at 5+17 and if pistons are at 8 would you trade #5 #17 and Jeff green for #8 and Monroe sign and trade and there second. Probably still get Gordon at #8

This is such a complicated trade to pull off.

Boston would have to select the players that Detroit wanted at #5 and #17, Detroit would have to select Boston's target at #8 and in the 2nd round, and weeks later Greg Monroe would have to accept a new deal whose base year salary would have to match Jeff Green's salary for next year.

Plus, the GM that accepts a trade of #5 and #8 for the #1 would be fired a day later.

[jambr380]

I like the Pistons side of things, but not crazy about Sacramento (at least need Ben and Isaiah coming back). Also, if rumors were true that Rondo wouldn't accept a trade to Sac earlier this year, I don't know why he would now. I guess if Det also sent Josh Smith to Sac to play with Gay, then Rondo may bite, but I don't know.  I appreciate you trying to put a strong, young team together that could be a real force in a few years - I am full force on the Monroe train and do think what you offered should be enough, but if he is coming in, then I definitely want to keep Rondo.

[LooseCannon]

You can't negotiate a sign-and-trade until after the draft.

There is also no way that Monroe is only signing for three years.  It is very likely that a team will be willing to offer him a four-year max contract.  Atlanta is a team that might have the cap space that is rumored to be very interested in him.

[Tr1boy]

You can't negotiate a sign-and-trade until after the draft.

There is also no way that Monroe is only signing for three years.  It is very likely that a team will be willing to offer him a four-year max contract.  Atlanta is a team that might have the cap space that is rumored to be very interested in him.

They have horford and milsap. No point.

I guess the deal wouldnt work unless it was for a future 1st or monroe and kcp.

Monroe is not getting max from anybody. Imo 3 or 4 years at 12 mill a yr is a fair deal

[LooseCannon]

You can't negotiate a sign-and-trade until after the draft.

There is also no way that Monroe is only signing for three years.  It is very likely that a team will be willing to offer him a four-year max contract.  Atlanta is a team that might have the cap space that is rumored to be very interested in him.

They have horford and milsap. No point.

I guess the deal wouldnt work unless it was for a future 1st or monroe and kcp.

Monroe is not getting max from anybody. Imo 3 or 4 years at 12 mill a yr is a fair deal

The Hawks have constantly been rumored to have interest in various players who would allow them to play Horford as a PF.  Danny Ferry seems like the kind of GM who would be willing to sign Monroe while selling high on Paul Millsap in a trde.

Four years at $12m per year seems to be the consensus worst deal that Monroe will get, with plenty of belief that David Falk is the sort of agent who can get Monroe a max deal.  I suspect that Joe Dumars being gone means that the Pistons are much more likely to match a max contract offer sheet.

[RRNoLookPass]

That team would give up a ton of points in the paint with Monroe & Olynyk as the starting bigs. Olynyk needs a defensive-minded center next to him, to mask his defensive deficiencies. Monroe is certainly not the answer to that. There is no rim-protecting big on that team. Gordon & Wiggins should both be high-level defenders in the NBA, but you need more than just defense at the 2 & 3 spots to have a solid defensive team.

The bench on that team is also atrocious. Outside of Bass, there is no consistent scorer. If Bass and Chris Johnson are the only offensive weapons on your bench, then your team is going to struggle.

[clover]

I don't want Monroe or Elfrid Payton (who shot 25% from the 3 and 59% on FTs).

[crimson_stallion]

You do realise that if we made this trade we would be even WORSE next year than we were this year, right?

On this team you basically have Wiggins as your go-to scorer, a guy who is already known for being very raw and a guy you pick on potential, not ability to make an immediate impact.  Sure he will produce from the start, but he's not going to be a 10 point guy.  If he scores any more in his rookie season then Jeff Green did this season, I'll be surprised. He's a guy you need to be patient with and allow to develop.

Gordon - same deal.  He's not a guy who will make an impact now, he's a guy who is projected to go high based almost exclusively on his athleticism (and hence percieved upside).  I personally don't think he has much upside because he's either a SF who cant shoot, or he's a very undersized PF who won't be able to defend NBA size. 

I really like Monroe as a player, but neither he nor Olynyk is a #1 scoring option right now.  Both are kinda defensive liabilities, so if you have one of those guys you need to put them next to a defensive minded big man.

Then you add an inexperienced rookie PG who can't shoot.

Basically this lineup gives you a perimeter rotation that can't stretch the floor, combined with a frontcourt rotation that can't defend the paint.  Plus 80% of your starting lineup has less than 2 years of NBA experience.  This is just a recipe for disaster.

[Tr1boy]

You do realise that if we made this trade we would be even WORSE next year than we were this year, right?

On this team you basically have Wiggins as your go-to scorer, a guy who is already known for being very raw and a guy you pick on potential, not ability to make an immediate impact.  Sure he will produce from the start, but he's not going to be a 10 point guy.  If he scores any more in his rookie season then Jeff Green did this season, I'll be surprised. He's a guy you need to be patient with and allow to develop.

Gordon - same deal.  He's not a guy who will make an impact now, he's a guy who is projected to go high based almost exclusively on his athleticism (and hence percieved upside).  I personally don't think he has much upside because he's either a SF who cant shoot, or he's a very undersized PF who won't be able to defend NBA size. 

I really like Monroe as a player, but neither he nor Olynyk is a #1 scoring option right now.  Both are kinda defensive liabilities, so if you have one of those guys you need to put them next to a defensive minded big man.

Then you add an inexperienced rookie PG who can't shoot.

Basically this lineup gives you a perimeter rotation that can't stretch the floor, combined with a frontcourt rotation that can't defend the paint.  Plus 80% of your starting lineup has less than 2 years of NBA experience.  This is just a recipe for disaster.

i disagree with most of your analysis.

1) Wiggins is at worse going to avg 10 a game.  He has more length , athleticism and skills vs 60 + percent of the nba sg/sf today.

2) Gordon mainly relies on his athleticism?  His iq is off the charts. Also he is a top notch multi position defender. Watch more games of him playing

3) Payton basically is a taller Rondo but already a better shooter and better defender at the same age.  Again, you need to watch him play actual games to appreciate what he can do on the court.  I don't even think he will be available at 17 come draft night


Lastly KO and Monroe is better than Sullinger and KO (bc monroe can actually play center). Or Asik and KO even.  Bc at the end of the game monroe will end up with a plus, with all the points he will score on you. His defense is better than shown this past season. He excels defensively playing center not pf.   With KO hopefully coming in with a better body plus you got tremendous above the rim presence in gordon/wiggins and even payton , imo i think it can workout.   Again its not a lineup expected to make the playoffs next season, but likely it will the season after that

[slamtheking]

To Pistons : Sullinger and Green
To Celtics : 2014 8th pick and Monroe (Signs 3 year at 12 million a year)

why?  Monroe's going to want more $ whether he's worth it or not.  sully gives similar production from the PF spot for a lot less cost.  The #8 pick would be lucky
to be as good as Green.  Not seeing the fascination for getting Monroe regardless of the later moves proposed

To Kings: Rondo
To Celtics: 2014 7th pick and Jason Thompson

horrible trade.  just horrible.  #7 pick is very unlikely to be as good as Rondo.  JT is 6 degrees of useless.  people have been banging the drum on this kid's
potential but that ship sailed already.  he's a mediocre bench player.

Draft
Trade 5th and 8th pick for 1st pick

Never happen.  never.  ever.  no matter what team wins the lottery, they are not giving up that top pick for anyone other than an existing superstar (which Kevin
Love is not by the way--for those who continue to drool over him) OR the second or third pick where they still get one of Embiid/Parker/Wiggins.  no one is trading
out of the top 3 this year.

1st pick - Andrew Wiggins
7th pick- Aaron Gordon
17th pick - Elfrid Payton

established trading for the 1st pick is a fallacy but to play along, if those other deals were made, pick Embiid first.  Monroe is not a center.  Embiid is.
7th pick--since you shipped out our all-star PG, draft his replacement in Smart, not a defensive specialist in Gordon.
17th pick--don't need Payton with Smart and 17 is way to high for that kid.  Go with one of the SG/SF's that are still projected to be on the board at that point.
for the sake of argument, we'll say TJ Warren slides to that spot as BPA and we take him.

Starting Lineup
C- Monroe - He can score (inside-out), gifted  passing skills, good rebounder and provides effort on both ends. Not a defensive stopper but is a good team defender and has good size/wingspan/reach for a Center. Has excelled playing the Center position

PF- Olynyk - Ready for a breakout year.  Will come next season with a better body and confidence to help contribute on both ends. Especially on the offensive end. Monroe and KO duo could be a terror on the offensive end just by utilizing their passing skills alone

SF - Gordon - Super role player. Tremendous defender that can guard 4 positions. Just by utilizing his explosiveness can score many difficult buckets many can't. Good passing skills. High IQ

SG- Wiggins -  The most athletic player from the 2014 draft.  Can take over games on a nightly basis, but just needs the confidence to do it. Underrated defender

PG - Payton - Big game player. Nice height for a pg (6'3) and length (6'7).  Able to drive and acrobatically get baskets in.  Has pure pg skills and is an excellent defender.  Needs to work on his jumper, but can hit the wide open jump shots.

again, Monroe is a PF, not a center.  I don't know what games of his you watch but he hasn't shown himself to be particularly 'gifted' at anything or providing effort on both ends.  in fact, he's looked rather lazy on D. 
KO, sure, hope for the best. 
your line-up goes nowhere for years, if ever.  No proven scorer. no D in the middle or at PF for that matter.

Corrected line-up based on something more realistic
C-Embiid --> potential to be an impact player on both ends of the court
PF-Monroe--> not great on D but hopefully playing with Embiid those deficiencies are reduced. 
SF-Warren-->decent scorer at this position.  should be a decent defender as well.  has good size for the position
SG-AB-->resigned.  hopefully gets back to focussing on D and continues to improve his shooting.
PG-Smart-->needs to improve shot and passing but has competitive drive and defends well.
-->team will needs a few years to develop but has real potential.  Should develop into a tough defensive team

Bench
Thompson
Bass
Wallace
Johnson
Pressey
FA - Scorer

bench sucks, pure and simple.  as for a FA-Scorer -->sure, those just grow on trees and want to play for MLE money on a rebuilding team.

Corrected version
KO -- First big off bench behind Embiid and Monroe
Bass - 1 more year left
Thompson - stuck with him thanks to that crappy Rondo trade.
Fav - 1 year left
Anthony - 1 year left
Wallace - 2 years left
Johnson - need depth at SG.  need to get a better backup or better yet, starter
Pressey - hope he continues to develop into a solid backup PG
Free Agent - a SG or better yet swing guard that can eat minutes when needed.  don't want to keep Bayless but he actually would fit the role.

Not great but a better option that what you've proposed.

These are surprising transactions i can see unfolding on draft night.

need to get glasses if that's what you're seeing

Detroit needs to fill in other needs and they already have Drummond as their center.
Monroe is better at playing the center spot.

no, no he's not.  he's a PF.  Detroit needs to move Monroe or Josh but anyone acquiring Monroe should be looking at him as a PF not Center.

Sacramento will miss out on Exum and Smart and will turn to trading their pick for Rondo. Sure he won't promise to resign,
but they don't have to give up Mclemore and can trade Rondo by trade deadline worse case.
Team really needs to get into the playoffs next season.

Sac would be stupid to trade for a 1-year rental of Rondo.  arguing that they 'need' to make the playoffs next year is purely your opinion.
Not sold that Sac won't be able to land Smart with their pick anyway.  bad trade for both teams. 

For the Celtics we get to rebuild plus be wannabe contenders at the same time.
Having Gordon, Wiggins, Payton is a terrific long term plan. Likely we won't make the playoffs next season ,
but in a year or two should be one of the top teams from the east. 

rebuilding in a rush is how mistakes are made that cost franchises years to dig out of.  your proposed line-up is a bunch of mediocre
talent except for Wiggins which would take a fairy-tale trade to get. 

Going in a different route with the same fairy-tale trade scenarios lands a better-balanced roster with two young studs with better-rounded
games as well as a couple of decent young players.  the deadwood on the bench clears out in 2 years.  the drawback is the $ to pay Monroe
for less than all-star production.  if Monroe develops a fire to improve his game, it pans out.  more than likely, he doesn't if for
no other reason than he's on a team whose best players will need a good 2-3 years to develop at least.  by the time their ready to hit
the prime time, Monroe's looking for his new deal.  would rather keep Sully and Green --> sully's cheaper and plays harder with similar
production already and Green's deal is cheaper than Monroe's is expected to be and expires in 2 years if we don't want to keep him

[slamtheking]

You do realise that if we made this trade we would be even WORSE next year than we were this year, right?

On this team you basically have Wiggins as your go-to scorer, a guy who is already known for being very raw and a guy you pick on potential, not ability to make an immediate impact.  Sure he will produce from the start, but he's not going to be a 10 point guy.  If he scores any more in his rookie season then Jeff Green did this season, I'll be surprised. He's a guy you need to be patient with and allow to develop.

Gordon - same deal.  He's not a guy who will make an impact now, he's a guy who is projected to go high based almost exclusively on his athleticism (and hence percieved upside).  I personally don't think he has much upside because he's either a SF who cant shoot, or he's a very undersized PF who won't be able to defend NBA size. 

I really like Monroe as a player, but neither he nor Olynyk is a #1 scoring option right now.  Both are kinda defensive liabilities, so if you have one of those guys you need to put them next to a defensive minded big man.

Then you add an inexperienced rookie PG who can't shoot.

Basically this lineup gives you a perimeter rotation that can't stretch the floor, combined with a frontcourt rotation that can't defend the paint.  Plus 80% of your starting lineup has less than 2 years of NBA experience.  This is just a recipe for disaster.

i disagree with most of your analysis.

1) Wiggins is at worse going to avg 10 a game.  He has more length , athleticism and skills vs 60 + percent of the nba sg/sf today.

2) Gordon mainly relies on his athleticism?  His iq is off the charts. Also he is a top notch multi position defender. Watch more games of him playing

3) Payton basically is a taller Rondo but already a better shooter and better defender at the same age.  Again, you need to watch him play actual games to appreciate what he can do on the court.  I don't even think he will be available at 17 come draft night


Lastly KO and Monroe is better than Sullinger and KO (bc monroe can actually play center). Or Asik and KO even.  Bc at the end of the game monroe will end up with a plus, with all the points he will score on you. His defense is better than shown this past season. He excels defensively playing center not pf.   With KO hopefully coming in with a better body plus you got tremendous above the rim presence in gordon/wiggins and even payton , imo i think it can workout.   Again its not a lineup expected to make the playoffs next season, but likely it will the season after that

of course you do.  you're consistantly raving about almost everyone in the draft over almost anyone already proven and collecting a paycheck in the NBA.   Crimson's all lot closer to reality on this than you are. 

[Tr1boy]

Slamtheking is this considered to be a strong draft?? You rather  have jeff green , ab and be mediocre to a very long time??

[kozlodoev]

thoughts?

Why are we aching so much to become the Sacramento Kings?

[Tr1boy]

thoughts?

Why are we aching so much to become the Sacramento Kings?

thoughts?

Why are we aching so much to become the Sacramento Kings?

Not a fan of wiggins or gordon?? Would u rather not develop and be like the cHeaters?