OKC ousted in 7; Russell Westbrook to Celts; swap lottery pick for Love

[D.o.s.]

TP for those stats D.o.s.,

I generally don't like trying to navigate NBA.Com's new stats page;  I find it very unfriendly. Those "driving" numbers are cool, though.  I've never seen those before.

Yeah, the stats page is super helpful and incredibly unwieldy -- which is basically how I feel about the whole Sports VU data right now.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

The way the Celtics are constructed right now, Westbrook will be a much better fit than Rondo. He's a guy who can make something happen with the ball in his hands. Sure, he holds the ball too much and turn it over more than I'd like -- but as far as I am concerned, his style of play may make guys like Bradley and Green better.

It may sound paradoxical to some, after all, Rondo is the quintessential "pass-first" PG, but I don't think a Rondo-led team will be a great team unless it has great scorers (and Bradley and Green aren't).

I can see how Westbrook's presence would create more opportunities for guys like Bradley and Green, but I'd rather get better scorers around Rondo, who, in my view, is the consummate point guard?a great passer and floor general?and I'd hate to lose a guy like that.

I also saw another mention of Ricky Rubio, but I fail to see why anyone would want him as their team's starting point guard?he's a pretty good (maybe great) passer but an awful shooter. I think Rondo's a better passer AND shooter.

[kozlodoev]

   a) "denounced hero ball" pretty much means complaining when it happens, b) our pace was about 1 possession per game below the league average, I'll leave it to you to explain how 1 more possession for the team in a game would have a profound effect on those scoring averages and c) they were good, not great scorers.

Well yeah, I guess the fact that no-one took more than 15 shots per game is pure coincidence. Had nothing to do with team strategy. Heck, even taking 13 shots per game was unusual.

And if you can't see how taking 100 shots per game will likely result in higher individual scoring averages than taking 90 shots per game, I don't think I can explain it to you

Rubio is a horrible shooter. And yet, he holds a career .330 on three pointers on a non-negligible sample of shots.

  ...which is still below average.

...but yet leaps and bounds above what Rondo was able to muster in his best season.

[ScoobyDoo]

I can understand the desire to acquire Westbrook and Love but I can't stand for former and I'm not sold on the latter as "the pieces" you build a championship team around.

Westbrook is a gunner with an over inflated sense of his own greatness and a lack of understanding of how a two man fits with the One man (Durant). Westbrook thinks he's just as much "the man" on that team and that's a real problem for OKC. I thought Harden was a better fit for Durant personality wise. Furthermore, I think Westbrook is eerily similar to Derek Rose in that he puts such incredible pressure on his legs and knees to accomplish what he accomplishes - I see him breaking down more and more over time.

I like Love, but unless you put a really solid defensive team around him, I think the positive impact of his scoring is diminished by his lack of tier one defense at his position. This can be done - we could put a good defensive team around him. For example, we could trade for Asik to cover his back and Jeff green with possibly Aaron Gordon baking him up would provide solid defense at the three spot, which should theoretically give us solid front court defense overall.

         

[kozlodoev]

I can see how Westbrook's presence would create more opportunities for guys like Bradley and Green, but I'd rather get better scorers around Rondo, who, in my view, is the consummate point guard?a great passer and floor general?and I'd hate to lose a guy like that.

It's not about quantity, it's about quality. The fact other teams will actually have to pay attention to Westbrook's scoring ability may make it possible for Bradley and Green not to have to chuck contested jumpers half of the time.

I'd rather get multiple "great scorers" too, the problem is they don't grow on trees. Remember how much time and effort it took us to put 3 of them together? And we already had one of them, now we're pretty much starting from scratch.

[Celtics18]

I can see how Westbrook's presence would create more opportunities for guys like Bradley and Green, but I'd rather get better scorers around Rondo, who, in my view, is the consummate point guard?a great passer and floor general?and I'd hate to lose a guy like that.

It's not about quantity, it's about quality. The fact other teams will actually have to pay attention to Westbrook's scoring ability may make it possible for Bradley and Green not to have to chuck contested jumpers half of the time.

I'd rather get multiple "great scorers" too, the problem is they don't grow on trees. Remember how much time and effort it took us to put 3 of them together? And we already had one of them, now we're pretty much starting from scratch.

I guess I would disagree that starting with Rondo, Olynyk, Sullinger, Green, Bradley (if we can re-sign him), a lottery pick and an additional first rounder this year, and multiple first rounders in the next few years amounts to "starting from scratch."

[kozlodoev]

I can see how Westbrook's presence would create more opportunities for guys like Bradley and Green, but I'd rather get better scorers around Rondo, who, in my view, is the consummate point guard?a great passer and floor general?and I'd hate to lose a guy like that.

It's not about quantity, it's about quality. The fact other teams will actually have to pay attention to Westbrook's scoring ability may make it possible for Bradley and Green not to have to chuck contested jumpers half of the time.

I'd rather get multiple "great scorers" too, the problem is they don't grow on trees. Remember how much time and effort it took us to put 3 of them together? And we already had one of them, now we're pretty much starting from scratch.

I guess I would disagree that starting with Rondo amounts to "starting from scratch."

Starting from scratch = we have zero of the great scorers you want to put around Rondo.

"starting with Rondo, Olynyk, Sullinger, Green, Bradley (if we can re-sign him) + picks" < starting with Rondo, Pierce, Jefferson, Wally, Perkins, Green, Davis, Powe, West, Allen, Gomes + 5th pick.

So yeah. From scratch.

[Celtics18]

I can see how Westbrook's presence would create more opportunities for guys like Bradley and Green, but I'd rather get better scorers around Rondo, who, in my view, is the consummate point guard?a great passer and floor general?and I'd hate to lose a guy like that.

It's not about quantity, it's about quality. The fact other teams will actually have to pay attention to Westbrook's scoring ability may make it possible for Bradley and Green not to have to chuck contested jumpers half of the time.

I'd rather get multiple "great scorers" too, the problem is they don't grow on trees. Remember how much time and effort it took us to put 3 of them together? And we already had one of them, now we're pretty much starting from scratch.

I guess I would disagree that starting with Rondo amounts to "starting from scratch."

Starting from scratch = we have zero of the great scorers you want to put around Rondo. Last time we not only had Rondo, but also Pierce.

I modified my post.  See above.

[kozlodoev]

I modified my post.  See above.

So did I.

[Celtics18]

I can see how Westbrook's presence would create more opportunities for guys like Bradley and Green, but I'd rather get better scorers around Rondo, who, in my view, is the consummate point guard?a great passer and floor general?and I'd hate to lose a guy like that.

It's not about quantity, it's about quality. The fact other teams will actually have to pay attention to Westbrook's scoring ability may make it possible for Bradley and Green not to have to chuck contested jumpers half of the time.

I'd rather get multiple "great scorers" too, the problem is they don't grow on trees. Remember how much time and effort it took us to put 3 of them together? And we already had one of them, now we're pretty much starting from scratch.

I guess I would disagree that starting with Rondo amounts to "starting from scratch."

Starting from scratch = we have zero of the great scorers you want to put around Rondo.

"starting with Rondo, Olynyk, Sullinger, Green, Bradley (if we can re-sign him) + picks" < starting with Rondo, Pierce, Jefferson, Wally, Perkins, Green, Davis, Powe, West, Allen, Gomes + 5th pick.

So yeah. From scratch.

O.K.  Let's give up. 

[ScoobyDoo]

Also, before we start making major moves, I'm wondering how good this team could be if we simply added Asik and drafted at the 5 & 17 spots - let that bake for another year, increase young player values?

Asik / Faverani / Humphries
Sully / Olynyk / Bass
Green / Pierce / Crash
Bradley / Exum or Garry Harris? /  Johnson
Rondo / Bayless / Pressey

Whoever at 17...

It seems this team, with a true defensive anchor and Rondo 100% back, might be much, mcuh improved

[BballTim]

   a) "denounced hero ball" pretty much means complaining when it happens, b) our pace was about 1 possession per game below the league average, I'll leave it to you to explain how 1 more possession for the team in a game would have a profound effect on those scoring averages and c) they were good, not great scorers.

Well yeah, I guess the fact that no-one took more than 15 shots per game is pure coincidence. Had nothing to do with team strategy. Heck, even taking 13 shots per game was unusual.

  Yes, our strategy had to change because our leading scorers were worsening over time. In 2008 the bog three scored 57% of our points during the season. In 2010 that number was down to 49%. There's a reason for that. People like to think that PP and KG played like superstars through 2012 or 2013 and then suddenly fell off of a cliff. That's not the case. The dropoff in their play was pretty noticeable over time.

And if you can't see how taking 100 shots per game will likely result in higher individual scoring averages than taking 90 shots per game, I don't think I can explain it to you

  If you can't see that no team in the league takes 100 shots per game (only 1 team has even taken 90 a game since 2008) and the Celts weren't 10 shots a game below average in those years you can save that explanation. Also, you were talking pace, which is different than FGA.

Rubio is a horrible shooter. And yet, he holds a career .330 on three pointers on a non-negligible sample of shots.

  ...which is still below average.

...but yet leaps and bounds above what Rondo was able to muster in his best season.

  Rondo's best year was 31%, 33% isn't "leaps and bounds" better than that.

[ScoobyDoo]

If we move forward with Rondo we absolutely must get great scorers around him - I don't think ti will work well otherwise.

[BballTim]

I can see how Westbrook's presence would create more opportunities for guys like Bradley and Green, but I'd rather get better scorers around Rondo, who, in my view, is the consummate point guard?a great passer and floor general?and I'd hate to lose a guy like that.

It's not about quantity, it's about quality. The fact other teams will actually have to pay attention to Westbrook's scoring ability may make it possible for Bradley and Green not to have to chuck contested jumpers half of the time.

  Westbrook's a threat to score when he has the ball. He doesn't pass it that often, so the fact that Green and Bradley get open isn't that meaningful. When he doesn't have the ball he's not much of a threat to score. He hits about 44% of his catch and shoot jumpers and he makes 1 such shot every 2-3 games. Rondo takes about as many of those shots as Westbrook and hits them at about the same clip. With his passing he'll create *more* opportunities for Green and Bradley than Westbrook does.

[Celtics18]

Also, before we start making major moves, I'm wondering how good this team could be if we simply added Asik and drafted at the 5 & 17 spots - let that bake for another year, increase young player values?

Asik / Faverani / Humphries
Sully / Olynyk / Bass
Green / Pierce / Crash
Bradley / Exum or Garry Harris? /  Johnson
Rondo / Bayless / Pressey

Whoever at 17...

It seems this team, with a true defensive anchor and Rondo 100% back, might be much, mcuh improved

I like it, but who or what are we trading for Asik?