Jeff Green for Omer Asik

[saltlover]

  I wonder whether they'd rather have Green or our trade exception.

If they're trying to clear salary for Melo, our trade exception.  Otherwise Green, no question.  They didn't want Green this year to clear room for Melo.  But by early July, Melo's decision will be clear.

[Sketch5]

Unless we get a big name to get us into the playoffs and contend, there's no reason to go after Asik. He's not going to help in the rebuild with a bunch of young players, and would hurt us if we're not in contention and are aiming for the lotto again.

I'd rather buy a second round or trade for an other first rounder and develop a potential young player than take on that bad contract if we can't land a legit scorer. The only good thing about it, is that is a last year contract at a high amount that gets waved or used in bringing in a player or two.

I think the TE and Green could get you a better player than Asik. And again if we don't land a big name player this summer, I'd rather give Fav an other shot than wast money on Asik, who just doesn't excite me on a rebuilding team. I'd rather buy KG back and have him teach the bigs we have now from the bench.

[LooseCannon]

Unless we get a big name to get us into the playoffs and contend, there's no reason to go after Asik.

What if any big name who could help the team into becoming a contender wouldn't even considering joining the Celtics unless the team went out and got someone like Asik first?

[Who]

Unless we get a big name to get us into the playoffs and contend, there's no reason to go after Asik.

What if any big name who could help the team into becoming a contender wouldn't even considering joining the Celtics unless the team went out and got someone like Asik first?

I don't think Asik is good enough to convince a star to come here (that would otherwise refuse to come here). It's not like Asik is an All-Star.

[mmmmm]

Unless we get a big name to get us into the playoffs and contend, there's no reason to go after Asik. He's not going to help in the rebuild with a bunch of young players, and would hurt us if we're not in contention and are aiming for the lotto again.

I'd rather buy a second round or trade for an other first rounder and develop a potential young player than take on that bad contract if we can't land a legit scorer. The only good thing about it, is that is a last year contract at a high amount that gets waved or used in bringing in a player or two.

I think the TE and Green could get you a better player than Asik. And again if we don't land a big name player this summer, I'd rather give Fav an other shot than wast money on Asik, who just doesn't excite me on a rebuilding team. I'd rather buy KG back and have him teach the bigs we have now from the bench.

'Can't combine the Traded Player Exception and a player contract (i.e. Green) to match one player's incoming salary.

TPE's cannot be combined with other salaries or exceptions.

[SHAQATTACK]

Unless we get a big name to get us into the playoffs and contend, there's no reason to go after Asik. He's not going to help in the rebuild with a bunch of young players, and would hurt us if we're not in contention and are aiming for the lotto again.

I'd rather buy a second round or trade for an other first rounder and develop a potential young player than take on that bad contract if we can't land a legit scorer. The only good thing about it, is that is a last year contract at a high amount that gets waved or used in bringing in a player or two.

I think the TE and Green could get you a better player than Asik. And again if we don't land a big name player this summer, I'd rather give Fav an other shot than wast money on Asik, who just doesn't excite me on a rebuilding team. I'd rather buy KG back and have him teach the bigs we have now from the bench.

I agree , much as we need Asik ,  it will just make this team a solid 8 seed.   I'm for getting a couple young lottery picks first

[pokeKingCurtis]

Unless we get a big name to get us into the playoffs and contend, there's no reason to go after Asik.

What if any big name who could help the team into becoming a contender wouldn't even considering joining the Celtics unless the team went out and got someone like Asik first?

I don't think Asik is good enough to convince a star to come here (that would otherwise refuse to come here). It's not like Asik is an All-Star.

Asik could in theory make this team better so...maybe.

Regardless, getting a player that (while not necessarily better than Green) fits better, offers more flexibility, is arguably more valuable playing a more coveted position makes it an offer worth considering.

[LooseCannon]

Unless we get a big name to get us into the playoffs and contend, there's no reason to go after Asik. He's not going to help in the rebuild with a bunch of young players, and would hurt us if we're not in contention and are aiming for the lotto again.

I'd rather buy a second round or trade for an other first rounder and develop a potential young player than take on that bad contract if we can't land a legit scorer. The only good thing about it, is that is a last year contract at a high amount that gets waved or used in bringing in a player or two.

I think the TE and Green could get you a better player than Asik. And again if we don't land a big name player this summer, I'd rather give Fav an other shot than wast money on Asik, who just doesn't excite me on a rebuilding team. I'd rather buy KG back and have him teach the bigs we have now from the bench.

I agree , much as we need Asik ,  it will just make this team a solid 8 seed.   I'm for getting a couple young lottery picks first

If adding Asik will make the team a solid 8 seed, adding two players of the caliber of Asik should make the team a borderline contender.

[tenn_smoothie]

Unless we get a big name to get us into the playoffs and contend, there's no reason to go after Asik. He's not going to help in the rebuild with a bunch of young players, and would hurt us if we're not in contention and are aiming for the lotto again.

I'd rather buy a second round or trade for an other first rounder and develop a potential young player than take on that bad contract if we can't land a legit scorer. The only good thing about it, is that is a last year contract at a high amount that gets waved or used in bringing in a player or two.

I think the TE and Green could get you a better player than Asik. And again if we don't land a big name player this summer, I'd rather give Fav an other shot than wast money on Asik, who just doesn't excite me on a rebuilding team. I'd rather buy KG back and have him teach the bigs we have now from the bench.

I agree , much as we need Asik ,  it will just make this team a solid 8 seed.   I'm for getting a couple young lottery picks first

fair enough - I tend to agree with the philosophy of only adding players that will contribute to a title in 2 - 4 years and beyond and I don't want mediocre talent that puts us in #7/#8 seed no-man's-land.

I had thought Asik might be that type of player that could help us win a title in a few years, but others don't seem to think he is that good or is young enough. as much as I like Jeff Green as a person and as a quality teammate, i'm afraid that he is simply one of those very athletic, talented players who just doesn't have the mental toughness or competitive appetite that a title team has to have from its players.

[crimson_stallion]

The thing is, if we are trading for Asik, then that signals that we are at least going to begin trying to compete. If that's the case, then I have no desire to trade Green, 1) because I am not sure it's worth it (others will disagree) and, 2) Houston really has no need for him.

If we are going big time and trying to acquire Carmelo for the sf position, then I can see doing this, but otherwise it leaves us with a huge gaping hole at sf instead of the one we already have at c...and the c we are getting isn't 'that' amazing.

The combination of Asik being a better player than Green and it being easier to find adequate SFs rather than adequate centers make Asik for Green a no-brainer from a purely basketball/talent perspective.

I think this is absolutely 100% wrong.

Firstly saying Asik is better than Green is hardly clear cut.  Asik is one of the worst offensive big men I'm the entire league and IMHO grossly overrated on defense, while having a terrible attitude to boot.

Jeff Green is a two-way player who cam be your second or third option on offense AND shut down the opposing teams star SF in the same game.  For a team like Boston who is so terrible offensively, trading our current best offensive player for a big who is a liability on offense...maybe not so smart.

Also I think this idea that " finding adequate SF's is much easier" is a fallacy.  There are maybe 3 or 4 legit All-Star calibre SF's in the league - LeBron, Carmello, Durant, George and Joe Johndon.  After that the talent level drops off dramatically with guys like Luol Deng, Andre Iguodala, Paul Pierce, etc.  Not a single guy after those top 5 is clear cut better player than Jeff Green - they are more or less on par.  Finding a guy who can give you 17 PPG while also having the defensive talent to shut down guys like Durant/Lebron/Carmello on Amy given night is not as easy as you think.

Asik on the other hand is a big who is arguably a very good post defender (jury's out on that) and a great rebounder with zero offensive ability.  Plenty such players out there - Okafor is just one example of a guy with the same skill set (but better offensive game) who can likely be had for much less.  Tyson Chandler - far superior to Asik, and with the Knicks looking to rebuild he may well be available.  Kevin Garnett? Same skillset, less money, and I'm sure after this season's stats Brooklyn would consider dealing him for Hump's expiring.  Even at his age, still better than Asik.  Finding bigs with no offensive game who cam only defend and rebound? They are everywhere.

[LooseCannon]

Asik on the other hand is a big who is arguably a very good post defender (jury's out on that) and a great rebounder with zero offensive ability.  Plenty such players out there - Okafor is just one example of a guy with the same skill set (but better offensive game) who can likely be had for much less.  Tyson Chandler - far superior to Asik, and with the Knicks looking to rebuild he may well be available.  Kevin Garnett? Same skillset, less money, and I'm sure after this season's stats Brooklyn would consider dealing him for Hump's expiring.  Even at his age, still better than Asik.  Finding bigs with no offensive game who cam only defend and rebound? They are everywhere.

Saying that the jury is still out on Asik being a very good post defender is silly.

The thing with Asik is that he is a better defender and rebounder than the other guys out there who you would describe as "bigs with no offensive game who can only defend and rebound".  There are maybe 1-2 centers out there who are clearly better on defense Asik.  There are some who might be better, but might be about the same, or a bit worse.  There are no big men in the NBA who are clearly better rebounders than Asik.

Add him to the likely Celtics roster for next season and you have a team that could be top ten in defense (and not just barely in the top ten), top ten in rebounding, and bottom ten in offense.  What record does a team like that finish with?  If the Celtics only give up one pick for Asik, does that leave them with enough assets to find an upgrade on offense that puts the team close to contention?

[kozlodoev]

  I wonder whether they'd rather have Green or our trade exception.

If they're trying to clear salary for Melo, our trade exception.  Otherwise Green, no question.  They didn't want Green this year to clear room for Melo.  But by early July, Melo's decision will be clear.

If they're trying to clear salary for Melo, I'd much rather take Chandler Parsons than Asik.

[LooseCannon]

  I wonder whether they'd rather have Green or our trade exception.

If they're trying to clear salary for Melo, our trade exception.  Otherwise Green, no question.  They didn't want Green this year to clear room for Melo.  But by early July, Melo's decision will be clear.

If they're trying to clear salary for Melo, I'd much rather take Chandler Parsons than Asik.

Dumping Parsons doesn't clear much salary.  And if their contracts were the same, I'd take Asik over Parsons.

[mmmmm]

Asik on the other hand is a big who is arguably a very good post defender (jury's out on that) and a great rebounder with zero offensive ability.  Plenty such players out there - Okafor is just one example of a guy with the same skill set (but better offensive game) who can likely be had for much less.  Tyson Chandler - far superior to Asik, and with the Knicks looking to rebuild he may well be available.  Kevin Garnett? Same skillset, less money, and I'm sure after this season's stats Brooklyn would consider dealing him for Hump's expiring.  Even at his age, still better than Asik.  Finding bigs with no offensive game who cam only defend and rebound? They are everywhere.

Saying that the jury is still out on Asik being a very good post defender is silly.

The thing with Asik is that he is a better defender and rebounder than the other guys out there who you would describe as "bigs with no offensive game who can only defend and rebound".  There are maybe 1-2 centers out there who are clearly better on defense Asik.  There are some who might be better, but might be about the same, or a bit worse.  There are no big men in the NBA who are clearly better rebounders than Asik.

Add him to the likely Celtics roster for next season and you have a team that could be top ten in defense (and not just barely in the top ten), top ten in rebounding, and bottom ten in offense.  What record does a team like that finish with?  If the Celtics only give up one pick for Asik, does that leave them with enough assets to find an upgrade on offense that puts the team close to contention?

Yeah, I'm in agreement with crimson_stallion that trading our best offensive weapon in order to get Asik isn't necessarily a net overall positive move (depending, of course, on other possible transactions).

But the idea that the jury is still out on Asik as a post defender is, indeed, silly.   Asik is easily, imho, one of the top 5 defensive centers in the league and a top 10 rebounder as well.

Our own assistant defensive coach, Ron Adams, has described Asik as the best defensive player he has coached.

I would be very excited if we were able to acquire Asik and I agree with LooseCannon that that would be transformative for our defense, but you have to be careful when you plug one roster hole not to create another one.   As crimson points out, in reality there are only a handful of SFs out there in the league with obviously better overall value than Green.

In the end, sure, we may need to move Green in order to strengthen the overall roster.   But any such deal should have a plan for replacing his production in the offense AND his perimeter defensive skills.

I don't think the proposed deals of Green for Asik make sense for us OR Houston.   I think it makes more sense for Houston to get cap relief if their goal is to go after Carmelo.   We have the ability to give them cap relief if that ends up being the case.

[kozlodoev]

  I wonder whether they'd rather have Green or our trade exception.

If they're trying to clear salary for Melo, our trade exception.  Otherwise Green, no question.  They didn't want Green this year to clear room for Melo.  But by early July, Melo's decision will be clear.

If they're trying to clear salary for Melo, I'd much rather take Chandler Parsons than Asik.

Dumping Parsons doesn't clear much salary.  And if their contracts were the same, I'd take Asik over Parsons.

No, but Carmelo makes him redundant. Although, of course, Parsons may end up being a Jeff Green carbon copy when all is said and done.