You say "Trade the pick!" I say, "Uh, for what?"

[PhoSita]

Let's assume the Celtics don't get a top 3 pick.  Let's assume they finish with the 5th worst record (perhaps tied with Utah and/or LA).

Many on this site have said, repeatedly, they'd like to see Ainge trade the pick for some proven talent if the Celtics don't get a top 3 slot.

I say to you: for whom?  What is this can't-miss trade opportunity that will justify giving up the primary spoil of a miserable season of losses?

Convince me that there are actually some plausible options.

[hpantazo]

From Wyc and Ainge's comments, even recently, that they expect some "fireworks" this summer, and Ainge specifically said he has laid the groundwork for some large deals, I expect that not only do we trade the pick, we package it with Rondo and some of our other assets, such as the future picks from our stockpile of 1st rounders, our trade exception, a sign and traded Bradley or Humprhies, or Olynyk. Who do we get? That's the big question, and I don't think it's Love. Ainge specifically said we need a "closer" and a "rim protector". I can see Melo and Asik covering these two points. Who else is possibly available as a closer and as a rim protector? There is no one in the league that can do both of those jobs at the moment, so I'm sure we are targeting two players.

[BballTim]

Let's assume the Celtics don't get a top 3 pick.  Let's assume they finish with the 5th worst record (perhaps tied with Utah and/or LA).

Many on this site have said, repeatedly, they'd like to see Ainge trade the pick for some proven talent if the Celtics don't get a top 3 slot.

I say to you: for whom?  What is this can't-miss trade opportunity that will justify giving up the primary spoil of a miserable season of losses?

Convince me that there are actually some plausible options.

  Give me a list of players that will be on the market and I'll give you a list of which ones we should target. Clearly you don't see any probable targets, but I'd be more concerned if we didn't see a decent amount of trades involving players that were only known to be on the market for a fairly short amount of time.

[freshinthehouse]

From Wyc and Ainge's comments, even recently, that they expect some "fireworks" this summer, and Ainge specifically said he has laid the groundwork for some large deals, I expect that not only do we trade the pick, we package it with Rondo and/or some of the future picks from our stockpile of 1st rounders. Who do we get? That's the big question, and I don't think it's Love. Ainge specifically said we need a "closer" and a "rim protector". I can see Melo and Asik covering these two points. Who else is possibly available as a closer and as a rim protector? There is no one in the league that can do both of those jobs at the moment, so I'm sure we are targeting two players.

I think I've asked this before, but can anyone show me a quote where Ainge says to expect fireworks this off-season?  I know Wyc has, but Wyc also thought we could sign a max-level free agent in the 2012 off-season.

[hpantazo]

From Wyc and Ainge's comments, even recently, that they expect some "fireworks" this summer, and Ainge specifically said he has laid the groundwork for some large deals, I expect that not only do we trade the pick, we package it with Rondo and/or some of the future picks from our stockpile of 1st rounders. Who do we get? That's the big question, and I don't think it's Love. Ainge specifically said we need a "closer" and a "rim protector". I can see Melo and Asik covering these two points. Who else is possibly available as a closer and as a rim protector? There is no one in the league that can do both of those jobs at the moment, so I'm sure we are targeting two players.

I think I've asked this before, but can anyone show me a quote where Ainge says to expect fireworks this off-season?  I know Wyc has, but Wyc also thought we could sign a max-level free agent in the 2012 off-season.

there's another thread somewhere in the forums here with very recent quotes directly from Ainge stating this. It's from this ESPN article:

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4712285/ainge-hopes-to-blow-off-some-fireworks

""I’m going to try to blow off some fireworks, but I have to be patient as well and we have to make sure that we don’t do deals just to do deals," Ainge said Thursday during his weekly call to Boston sports radio 98.5 the Sports Hub."

""I think that the the groundwork has been laid, potentially for some deals this summer. But no guarantees," said Ainge. Asked what the areas of need were for his team, Ainge added: "We need quality players. I would just say, one of our weaknesses has been a closer and rim protection -- "

[pearljammer10]

From Wyc and Ainge's comments, even recently, that they expect some "fireworks" this summer, and Ainge specifically said he has laid the groundwork for some large deals, I expect that not only do we trade the pick, we package it with Rondo and some of our other assets, such as the future picks from our stockpile of 1st rounders, our trade exception, a sign and traded Bradley or Humprhies, or Olynyk. Who do we get? That's the big question, and I don't think it's Love. Ainge specifically said we need a "closer" and a "rim protector". I can see Melo and Asik covering these two points. Who else is possibly available as a closer and as a rim protector? There is no one in the league that can do both of those jobs at the moment, so I'm sure we are targeting two players.

I agree with most of this besides trading Rondo. I think we will see fireworks but I dont see us trading Rondo. He is a piece and two other stars will be brought in to compliment him. He's one of the leagues top point guards, I dont see the point in trading him. Is he a number one guy? No. Is he a huge piece to our next stint of contention? Yes.

As far as possible targets I honestly see the most likely to be in Green as:
Kevin Love
Omer Asik

I also think Pierce may come back on a small deal if we put the right pieces in place.

With an outside possibility of instead netting:
Melo
Afflalo

And a list of potential targets (even though far more unrealistic):
Gortat (realistic target)
LaMarcus Aldridge
Monroe
Josh Smith
Joakim Noah
Cousins
Sanders
Varejo

I could see a starting lineup of

Rondo
Afflalo
Green/Pierce
Love
Asik

Next season. No idea what the bench would look like outside of Pierce but I honestly think that's the type of fireworks Ainge is looking for and could pull off.

[MBunge]

I say to you: for whom?  What is this can't-miss trade opportunity that will justify giving up the primary spoil of a miserable season of losses?

Convince me that there are actually some plausible options.

Memo is the obvious answer.  Ainge can get Asik for Bass and a future 1st.  NY will take what they can get if Melo says he's walking.  Who's the other star Boston could get to entice Melo to sign here?

Mike

[hpantazo]

Yea, I also think keeping Rondo and trading the pick with our assets war chest for two key vets is the most likely outcome.

I would, totally, totally love to get Joakim Noah this summer, but it's in the highly unlikely category. Asik on the other hand I believe Ainge can get whenever he wants to. Outside of Melo, who is out there that is considered a closer that we can get? Love is a great player, but not a closer imo.

[freshinthehouse]

From Wyc and Ainge's comments, even recently, that they expect some "fireworks" this summer, and Ainge specifically said he has laid the groundwork for some large deals, I expect that not only do we trade the pick, we package it with Rondo and/or some of the future picks from our stockpile of 1st rounders. Who do we get? That's the big question, and I don't think it's Love. Ainge specifically said we need a "closer" and a "rim protector". I can see Melo and Asik covering these two points. Who else is possibly available as a closer and as a rim protector? There is no one in the league that can do both of those jobs at the moment, so I'm sure we are targeting two players.

I think I've asked this before, but can anyone show me a quote where Ainge says to expect fireworks this off-season?  I know Wyc has, but Wyc also thought we could sign a max-level free agent in the 2012 off-season.

there's another thread somewhere in the forums here with very recent quotes directly from Ainge stating this. It's from this ESPN article:

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4712285/ainge-hopes-to-blow-off-some-fireworks

""I’m going to try to blow off some fireworks, but I have to be patient as well and we have to make sure that we don’t do deals just to do deals," Ainge said Thursday during his weekly call to Boston sports radio 98.5 the Sports Hub."

""I think that the the groundwork has been laid, potentially for some deals this summer. But no guarantees," said Ainge. Asked what the areas of need were for his team, Ainge added: "We need quality players. I would just say, one of our weaknesses has been a closer and rim protection -- "

I stand corrected.  TP for you, good sir.

[hpantazo]

From Wyc and Ainge's comments, even recently, that they expect some "fireworks" this summer, and Ainge specifically said he has laid the groundwork for some large deals, I expect that not only do we trade the pick, we package it with Rondo and/or some of the future picks from our stockpile of 1st rounders. Who do we get? That's the big question, and I don't think it's Love. Ainge specifically said we need a "closer" and a "rim protector". I can see Melo and Asik covering these two points. Who else is possibly available as a closer and as a rim protector? There is no one in the league that can do both of those jobs at the moment, so I'm sure we are targeting two players.

I think I've asked this before, but can anyone show me a quote where Ainge says to expect fireworks this off-season?  I know Wyc has, but Wyc also thought we could sign a max-level free agent in the 2012 off-season.

there's another thread somewhere in the forums here with very recent quotes directly from Ainge stating this. It's from this ESPN article:

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4712285/ainge-hopes-to-blow-off-some-fireworks

""I’m going to try to blow off some fireworks, but I have to be patient as well and we have to make sure that we don’t do deals just to do deals," Ainge said Thursday during his weekly call to Boston sports radio 98.5 the Sports Hub."

""I think that the the groundwork has been laid, potentially for some deals this summer. But no guarantees," said Ainge. Asked what the areas of need were for his team, Ainge added: "We need quality players. I would just say, one of our weaknesses has been a closer and rim protection -- "

I stand corrected.  TP for you, good sir.

Thanks, TP. I was also skeptical until I saw this.

[PhoSita]

  Give me a list of players that will be on the market and I'll give you a list of which ones we should target. Clearly you don't see any probable targets, but I'd be more concerned if we didn't see a decent amount of trades involving players that were only known to be on the market for a fairly short amount of time.

It's true that you don't necessarily know who's on the market until closer to draft day / free agency.

Still, we can speculate, right?  We can expect that of each other, at least?  Throw some ideas around?  Play computerchair GM?


My feeling on this is simply that there's a very strong tendency among a lot of fans around here to get a "quick fix."  If we can't get a top 3 pick that will yield a potential superstar ready to make a major impact right away, let's just trade the pick for an established star, right?  Eezy peezy.

It's a quaint notion, but there's a reason that most teams that enter rebuilding take a while to get out.  Rebuilding is not simple, it's not easy, and it's rarely quick.  That's because talented players who do a lot to help teams win tend to be coveted by the teams they're already on.

[hpantazo]

  Give me a list of players that will be on the market and I'll give you a list of which ones we should target. Clearly you don't see any probable targets, but I'd be more concerned if we didn't see a decent amount of trades involving players that were only known to be on the market for a fairly short amount of time.

It's true that you don't necessarily know who's on the market until closer to draft day / free agency.

Still, we can speculate, right?  We can expect that of each other, at least?  Throw some ideas around?  Play computerchair GM?


My feeling on this is simply that there's a very strong tendency among a lot of fans around here to get a "quick fix."  If we can't get a top 3 pick that will yield a potential superstar ready to make a major impact right away, let's just trade the pick for an established star, right?  Eezy peezy.

It's a quaint notion, but there's a reason that most teams that enter rebuilding take a while to get out.  Rebuilding is not simple, it's not easy, and it's rarely quick.  That's because talented players who do a lot to help teams win tend to be coveted by the teams they're already on.

no one said it's easy, but very few, if any , rebuilding teams enter a rebuild with the stockpile of assets that Ainge has put together. The collection of 1st rounders, young talent, a trade exception, and players that can be used in sign and trades has really set us up well for a quick rebuild IF the possibilities come up on the market.

[PhoSita]

no one said it's easy, but very few, if any , rebuilding teams enter a rebuild with the stockpile of assets that Ainge has put together. The collection of 1st rounders, young talent, a trade exception, and players that can be used in sign and trades has really set us up well for a quick rebuild IF the possibilities come up on the market.

Sure.  To me, it seems a lot more likely that the pick result in substantially more value if it's used on a player -- albeit a young, raw one -- who the Celtics develop over the course of a few years.

Trading the pick for an "established" guy that some other team is willing to move on from is a win-now move.  This team isn't ready to make "win now" moves yet unless it's a home-run move (i.e. acquiring Melo or Love).  Even then, that's pretty risky.

[nickagneta]

Here's a scenario:

Let's say Memphis misses the playoffs. Memphis is one of the smallest markets in the league and their owners are definitely not big spenders in that they won't go into luxury tax hell for the sake of just investing in getting their mid level Western Conference team into the playoffs. Management may just decide, as long as they already have their season ticket base sold for next season, to blow it up.

Why? Because if a much worse on defense and more inconsistent Zach Randolph opts in, the Grizz have $69 million committed for next season for ten players. The most they will have is the MLE to add to a team that didn't make the playoffs and has 3 of their ten signed players in serious decline(Allen, Randolph, Prince). Options to make the Grizz a contender will be tough to find, though admittedly not completely impossible.

So if the Grizz decide to blow it up to reduce long term salary and tank for drafting youth, could Marc Gasol and Mike Conley become available? Can a small market like Memphis afford the next contracts Gasol and Conley will warrant given the team might not be contender quality?

I guess if the team feels Rondo is not in the future could the lottery pick and two other draft picks, Rondo and either the TE or the non-guaranteed contracts of Bogans, Johnson, Babb, and Pressey be enough to lure the Grizz into a deal for Conley and Gasol?

The C's could still keep Brooklyn's pick this year and transform the team into a team that has

Conley
Bradley
Green
Sullinger
Gasol 

starting and a bench of Olynyk, Faverani Wallace and the first round pick and then do what you can to trade Bass for depth where it is needed.

Have Bradley go back to being a bulldog defender and with the defensive upgrades at center and PG and a much better balanced roster, the C's will be taking a step in the right direction. And they should still have a bunch of picks to add in following years, which might be lottery picks if Brooklyn falters under the age of their team, an inability to sign replacements for them and the fact they can't add youth because they have no picks.

[PhoSita]

Here's a scenario:

Let's say Memphis misses the playoffs. Memphis is one of the smallest markets in the league and their owners are definitely not big spenders in that they won't go into luxury tax hell for the sake of just investing in getting their mid level Western Conference team into the playoffs. Management may just decide, as long as they already have their season ticket base sold for next season, to blow it up.

This is an interesting scenario.  I like your thinking.

The idea that Memphis would prefer Rondo to Conley and Gasol doesn't make too much sense to me, though.  Rondo is nearly as old as Gasol, and has more significant injury issues.  Why not just trade Gasol for assets and keep Conley?  Conley is a bit younger than Rondo, and he's not quite as good, but he's reasonably close.

Perhaps some sort of 3 team trade where Rondo goes elsewhere and the Grizzlies get a bunch of assets?  That would allow the Grizzlies to truly bottom out.


I like the resulting team for the Cs, though I'm unsure if the upside is really much higher than what the Grizzlies are now.  Still, that would be a fun team to watch.  Stevens would have a field day with that group.