I've had all I can stand and I can't stands no more...

[KingChre]

I am a passive commenter, frequent lurker to this board. I am 31 years old, and have been watching this team my entire life. That means I barely remember the championship years of the 80's and grew up on the putrid filth of the mid 90's Celtics. The reason I am chiming in now is this whole tank vs anti-tank thing has just gotten absolutely ridiculous.

Folks...there is NO DEBATE

I was able to entertain the thought earlier in the year of attempting to win as many games as possible, but at this point, anyone that either is wishing the Celtics to win or regaling in "Tanker's misery" is at best ignorant and at worst a fool.

Yes, the lottery is not an exact science, but at this point, we are stuck there, and it behooves the team to have the best shot at the best player. We have all seen countless lists of who was drafted at what spot in the draft, and what is quantifiable and measureable is the simple fact that better players come from the top spots. The fact that this even needs to be brought up is incredible to me, but yet some posters here can't look past the next week.

I read comments like "I will never root against the Celtics." Well that's terrific for you, but I hope you are happy with mediocrity for the next 10 years, because that's where they are heading unless they start adding impact talent. Impact talent rarely comes late in the draft, it happens but you have to be lucky. Yes, you also must be lucky to hit at the top of the draft, but the odds are much, much better.

Also, having a higher pick also benefits those that are in the camp of "the draft is a crap shoot, we never know." Yes, obviously, thanks for pointing that out. However, if we are going to trade our pick to bring in impact talent from another team...do you think that team would prefer the 3rd pick or the 6th? Some years that doesn't matter all that much, this one does.

In the end, any win at this point of the year has little to no value going forward, but the extra ping pong balls we might get by losing out has enormous potential. Anyone that can't see that at this point needs to take a step back and look at priorities, because clearly they can't see the forest for the trees.

[Clench123]

Best post I've read in a while.  Exact mirror image of how I feel. 

And the biggest problem I see is what SHAQATTACK mentioned in one of the threads...that everybody is not on the same page with this tanking thing.

[Celtics18]

So, you want to see the team actively throw the remaining three games?  Miss shots on purpose?  Give up on crucial defensive possessions? 

For the future.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

I am a passive commenter, frequent lurker to this board. I am 31 years old, and have been watching this team my entire life. That means I barely remember the championship years of the 80's and grew up on the putrid filth of the mid 90's Celtics. The reason I am chiming in now is this whole tank vs anti-tank thing has just gotten absolutely ridiculous.

Folks...there is NO DEBATE

I was able to entertain the thought earlier in the year of attempting to win as many games as possible, but at this point, anyone that either is wishing the Celtics to win or regaling in "Tanker's misery" is at best ignorant and at worst a fool.

Yes, the lottery is not an exact science, but at this point, we are stuck there, and it behooves the team to have the best shot at the best player. We have all seen countless lists of who was drafted at what spot in the draft, and what is quantifiable and measureable is the simple fact that better players come from the top spots. The fact that this even needs to be brought up is incredible to me, but yet some posters here can't look past the next week.

I read comments like "I will never root against the Celtics." Well that's terrific for you, but I hope you are happy with mediocrity for the next 10 years, because that's where they are heading unless they start adding impact talent. Impact talent rarely comes late in the draft, it happens but you have to be lucky. Yes, you also must be lucky to hit at the top of the draft, but the odds are much, much better.

Also, having a higher pick also benefits those that are in the camp of "the draft is a crap shoot, we never know." Yes, obviously, thanks for pointing that out. However, if we are going to trade our pick to bring in impact talent from another team...do you think that team would prefer the 3rd pick or the 6th? Some years that doesn't matter all that much, this one does.

In the end, any win at this point of the year has little to no value going forward, but the extra ping pong balls we might get by losing out has enormous potential. Anyone that can't see that at this point needs to take a step back and look at priorities, because clearly they can't see the forest for the trees.

If it costs us a shot at a top pick this late in the game then we will be in NBA hell. The whole season will have been wasted. If we are not going for a top pick then we should have went a different route earlier in the season and played to win now.

[Celtics18]

I am a passive commenter, frequent lurker to this board. I am 31 years old, and have been watching this team my entire life. That means I barely remember the championship years of the 80's and grew up on the putrid filth of the mid 90's Celtics. The reason I am chiming in now is this whole tank vs anti-tank thing has just gotten absolutely ridiculous.

Folks...there is NO DEBATE

I was able to entertain the thought earlier in the year of attempting to win as many games as possible, but at this point, anyone that either is wishing the Celtics to win or regaling in "Tanker's misery" is at best ignorant and at worst a fool.

Yes, the lottery is not an exact science, but at this point, we are stuck there, and it behooves the team to have the best shot at the best player. We have all seen countless lists of who was drafted at what spot in the draft, and what is quantifiable and measureable is the simple fact that better players come from the top spots. The fact that this even needs to be brought up is incredible to me, but yet some posters here can't look past the next week.

I read comments like "I will never root against the Celtics." Well that's terrific for you, but I hope you are happy with mediocrity for the next 10 years, because that's where they are heading unless they start adding impact talent. Impact talent rarely comes late in the draft, it happens but you have to be lucky. Yes, you also must be lucky to hit at the top of the draft, but the odds are much, much better.

Also, having a higher pick also benefits those that are in the camp of "the draft is a crap shoot, we never know." Yes, obviously, thanks for pointing that out. However, if we are going to trade our pick to bring in impact talent from another team...do you think that team would prefer the 3rd pick or the 6th? Some years that doesn't matter all that much, this one does.

In the end, any win at this point of the year has little to no value going forward, but the extra ping pong balls we might get by losing out has enormous potential. Anyone that can't see that at this point needs to take a step back and look at priorities, because clearly they can't see the forest for the trees.

When you make that claim, it would be nice if you showed the "measurables."

[Chief]

So, you want to see the team actively throw the remaining three games?  Miss shots on purpose?  Give up on crucial defensive possessions? 

For the future.

Yes! Yes! Yes!

[Clench123]

So, you want to see the team actively throw the remaining three games?  Miss shots on purpose?  Give up on crucial defensive possessions? 

For the future.

In Daniel Bryan's words, YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!

[Celtics18]

So, you want to see the team actively throw the remaining three games?  Miss shots on purpose?  Give up on crucial defensive possessions? 

For the future.

Yes! Yes! Yes!

Fair enough.  I refuse to go there.  Apparently that makes me a short-sighted moron.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

So, you want to see the team actively throw the remaining three games?  Miss shots on purpose?  Give up on crucial defensive possessions? 

For the future.

Yes! Yes! Yes!

check your messages chief

[Eddie20]

I am a passive commenter, frequent lurker to this board. I am 31 years old, and have been watching this team my entire life. That means I barely remember the championship years of the 80's and grew up on the putrid filth of the mid 90's Celtics. The reason I am chiming in now is this whole tank vs anti-tank thing has just gotten absolutely ridiculous.

Folks...there is NO DEBATE

I was able to entertain the thought earlier in the year of attempting to win as many games as possible, but at this point, anyone that either is wishing the Celtics to win or regaling in "Tanker's misery" is at best ignorant and at worst a fool.

Yes, the lottery is not an exact science, but at this point, we are stuck there, and it behooves the team to have the best shot at the best player. We have all seen countless lists of who was drafted at what spot in the draft, and what is quantifiable and measureable is the simple fact that better players come from the top spots. The fact that this even needs to be brought up is incredible to me, but yet some posters here can't look past the next week.

I read comments like "I will never root against the Celtics." Well that's terrific for you, but I hope you are happy with mediocrity for the next 10 years, because that's where they are heading unless they start adding impact talent. Impact talent rarely comes late in the draft, it happens but you have to be lucky. Yes, you also must be lucky to hit at the top of the draft, but the odds are much, much better.

Also, having a higher pick also benefits those that are in the camp of "the draft is a crap shoot, we never know." Yes, obviously, thanks for pointing that out. However, if we are going to trade our pick to bring in impact talent from another team...do you think that team would prefer the 3rd pick or the 6th? Some years that doesn't matter all that much, this one does.

In the end, any win at this point of the year has little to no value going forward, but the extra ping pong balls we might get by losing out has enormous potential. Anyone that can't see that at this point needs to take a step back and look at priorities, because clearly they can't see the forest for the trees.

When you make that claim, it would be nice if you showed the "measurables."

Isn't that fairly easy to assess? Take the best players in the NBA (James, Durant, Paul, etc.) and look where they were taken in the draft.

[GreenFaith1819]

So, you want to see the team actively throw the remaining three games?  Miss shots on purpose?  Give up on crucial defensive possessions? 

For the future.

Yes! Yes! Yes!

Fair enough.  I refuse to go there.  Apparently that makes me a short-sighted moron.

Me too, Brother...me too.

So,  I guess that I can tell my two young sons to go ahead and fix games (miss shots, play lackadaisical, etc).....so their (potential) future NBA team can get a desired spot in the draft......

.....a draft where, even though there are some talented players - there is absolutely no guarantee that ANY of them will pan out.

That's why  - as I posted in a different thread - if we get Wiggins I'd ship him to CHI for Noah or POR for LaMarcus, or Minny for Kevin - give me a PROVEN star any day of the week.

I'd say - "Hey Wiggins glad to have you in Green - but you're going to Minny for KLove. We just traded you."

That's just me.

[celticdog]

So, you want to see the team actively throw the remaining three games?  Miss shots on purpose?  Give up on crucial defensive possessions? 

For the future.

Yes! Yes! Yes!

Fair enough.  I refuse to go there.  Apparently that makes me a short-sighted moron.

Me too, Brother...me too.

So,  I guess that I can tell my two young sons to go ahead and fix games (miss shots, play lackadaisical, etc).....so their (potential) future NBA team can get a desired spot in the draft......

.....a draft where, even though there are some talented players - there is absolutely no guarantee that ANY of them will pan out.

That's why  - as I posted in a different thread - if we get Wiggins I'd ship him to CHI for Noah or POR for LaMarcus, or Minny for Kevin - give me a PROVEN star any day of the week.

I'd say - "Hey Wiggins glad to have you in Green - but you're going to Minny for KLove. We just traded you."

That's just me.

Look at it as teaching your children pragmatism as well as critical thinking skills.   

You can take them aside and the Full House teach in music can be playing haha

[GreenFaith1819]

So, you want to see the team actively throw the remaining three games?  Miss shots on purpose?  Give up on crucial defensive possessions? 

For the future.

Yes! Yes! Yes!

Fair enough.  I refuse to go there.  Apparently that makes me a short-sighted moron.

Me too, Brother...me too.

So,  I guess that I can tell my two young sons to go ahead and fix games (miss shots, play lackadaisical, etc).....so their (potential) future NBA team can get a desired spot in the draft......

.....a draft where, even though there are some talented players - there is absolutely no guarantee that ANY of them will pan out.

That's why  - as I posted in a different thread - if we get Wiggins I'd ship him to CHI for Noah or POR for LaMarcus, or Minny for Kevin - give me a PROVEN star any day of the week.

I'd say - "Hey Wiggins glad to have you in Green - but you're going to Minny for KLove. We just traded you."

That's just me.

Look at it as teaching your children pragmatism as well as critical thinking skills.   

You can take them aside and the Full House teach in music can be playing haha

LOL nice one.

At least us Celtics fans can spin some humor...I can't stand the premise behind our "alleged" tanking, but at least we haven't gone stark raving bonkers like some Lakers fans are.

I bet their season has driven them up a wall. And at least Danny has made some moves to turn us around in good time. And we still have Rondo - with his supposed warts. Sully is looking like a proven star in the making, too.

Lakers? Their time is running short. Glad I'm not a Laker fan right now. Mitch had better work his mojo very soon.

[GreenWarrior]

I think everyone is looking at "tanking" wrong. it's not the "how, the why, the where". it's the when do you tank?

from what I've seen & heard the players at the top of this yr's draft are not franchise changing players. i'm almost willing to say there will be 1 or 2 players late in this yrs draft that ultimately end up better than the top drafted players.

so, if you're a team tanking to draft 1 of "these players" this yr. chances are your rebuilding efforts are going to have you rebuilding for a while.

if you're a team that is planning on trading your high pick this yr. then it's a good time to tank. which i'm thinking that's what we're going to do.

as far as cheering and rooting for losses. no i'll never do that. I've chosen to not follow the C's as closely this yr. as I have in the past. I've missed more games this yr. than I have in the last 30 yrs.

I just have no interest in getting invested in a team that will look completely different next yr.

[Celtics18]

I am a passive commenter, frequent lurker to this board. I am 31 years old, and have been watching this team my entire life. That means I barely remember the championship years of the 80's and grew up on the putrid filth of the mid 90's Celtics. The reason I am chiming in now is this whole tank vs anti-tank thing has just gotten absolutely ridiculous.

Folks...there is NO DEBATE

I was able to entertain the thought earlier in the year of attempting to win as many games as possible, but at this point, anyone that either is wishing the Celtics to win or regaling in "Tanker's misery" is at best ignorant and at worst a fool.

Yes, the lottery is not an exact science, but at this point, we are stuck there, and it behooves the team to have the best shot at the best player. We have all seen countless lists of who was drafted at what spot in the draft, and what is quantifiable and measureable is the simple fact that better players come from the top spots. The fact that this even needs to be brought up is incredible to me, but yet some posters here can't look past the next week.

I read comments like "I will never root against the Celtics." Well that's terrific for you, but I hope you are happy with mediocrity for the next 10 years, because that's where they are heading unless they start adding impact talent. Impact talent rarely comes late in the draft, it happens but you have to be lucky. Yes, you also must be lucky to hit at the top of the draft, but the odds are much, much better.

Also, having a higher pick also benefits those that are in the camp of "the draft is a crap shoot, we never know." Yes, obviously, thanks for pointing that out. However, if we are going to trade our pick to bring in impact talent from another team...do you think that team would prefer the 3rd pick or the 6th? Some years that doesn't matter all that much, this one does.

In the end, any win at this point of the year has little to no value going forward, but the extra ping pong balls we might get by losing out has enormous potential. Anyone that can't see that at this point needs to take a step back and look at priorities, because clearly they can't see the forest for the trees.

When you make that claim, it would be nice if you showed the "measurables."

Isn't that fairly easy to assess? Take the best players in the NBA (James, Durant, Paul, etc.) and look where they were taken in the draft.

I don't think it's as easy as you suggest, Eddie.

But, for laughs, I decided to give it a try.  I looked at BasketBallReference's list of active leaders in career WinShares, and then looked to see where those players where drafted:

Here are the results:

1.  Tim Duncan (1st pick)
2.  Kevin Garnett (5th)
3.  Dirk Nowitzki (9th)
4.  Kobe Bryant (13th)
5.  Lebron James (1st)
6.  Ray Allen (5th)
7.  Paul Pierce (10th)
8.  Steve Nash (15th)
9.  Shawn Marion (9th)
10.  Chauncey Billups (3rd)
11.  Vince Carter (5th)
12.  Chris Paul (4th)
13.  Pau Gasol (3rd)
14.  Elton Brand (1st)
15.  Dwayne Wade (5th)
16.  Dwight Howard (1st)
17.  Andre Miller (8th)
18.  Chris Bosh (4th)
19.  Tony Parker (28th)
20.  Jason Terry (10th)
21.  Manu Ginobili (28th)
22.  Rashard Lewis (32nd)
23.  Kevin Durant (2nd)
24.  Antawn Jamison (4th)
25.  Amare Stoudemire (9th)