There's no need to be outraged over losses [edited]

[Sketch5]

While right now winning sucks, I'm not overly worried right now. Not until the ping pong balls drop.

We've have the 2nd worst record just a few years ago and still ended up with the 5th pic. Cleveland was suppose to get the 8th spot last year, and got the first.

This is also why I like that DA didn't make any drastic moves at the deadline. I'm not sure our record would have been that much worse by getting rid of some players. Not to the expense of getting rid of players for nothing. Where on draft night some of our players are going to be worth a lot more now.

So until draft night, I'm staying positive that it will all work out. DA has had his misses, but I think he's been also learning from them.

[cometboy]

I totally agree that i am glad we did not trade everyone away in hope of securing a player who may, hopefully turn out to be as good soe day. that's an approach that leads to permanent mediocrity.

however, losing right now may raise the odds of a better pick/player. winning reduces the odds. there is absolutely nothing to gain by winning now.

i'll take losing, keepng my eye on the longer term, rather than some short term gratification.

CB

[cb8883]

While right now winning sucks, I'm not overly worried right now. Not until the ping pong balls drop.

We've have the 2nd worst record just a few years ago and still ended up with the 5th pic. Cleveland was suppose to get the 8th spot last year, and got the first.

This is also why I like that DA didn't make any drastic moves at the deadline. I'm not sure our record would have been that much worse by getting rid of some players. Not to the expense of getting rid of players for nothing. Where on draft night some of our players are going to be worth a lot more now.

So until draft night, I'm staying positive that it will all work out. DA has had his misses, but I think he's been also learning from them.

DA's biggest miss in his career was not getting rid of all these guys. If Bass Green Bradley and Rondo were not here we would be Philly and set up amazingly for the future. Instead we do have a bunch of picks from Brooklyn which is nice and all but being a big market team they will attract stars no problem. This team should be worse than it is regardless. I guess that we can fault Coach Stevens as well since he is trying to win every game despite the logic in tanking. Maybe next year when we go for Okafor he'll get the picture.

[pokeKingCurtis]

While right now winning sucks, I'm not overly worried right now. Not until the ping pong balls drop.

We've have the 2nd worst record just a few years ago and still ended up with the 5th pic. Cleveland was suppose to get the 8th spot last year, and got the first.

This is also why I like that DA didn't make any drastic moves at the deadline. I'm not sure our record would have been that much worse by getting rid of some players. Not to the expense of getting rid of players for nothing. Where on draft night some of our players are going to be worth a lot more now.

So until draft night, I'm staying positive that it will all work out. DA has had his misses, but I think he's been also learning from them.

DA's biggest miss in his career was not getting rid of all these guys. If Bass Green Bradley and Rondo were not here we would be Philly and set up amazingly for the future. Instead we do have a bunch of picks from Brooklyn which is nice and all but being a big market team they will attract stars no problem. This team should be worse than it is regardless. I guess that we can fault Coach Stevens as well since he is trying to win every game despite the logic in tanking. Maybe next year when we go for Okafor he'll get the picture.

Good god, we're envying Philly as a basketball front office now?

[pokeKingCurtis]

Also, that win may have prevented us from entering the darkest timeline, and instead may have propelled us into the Celtic-best timeline where we're looking at our next dynasty.



That episode is super reference-able. I can reference it for days.

[Celtics18]

I mean a lot of it is based on a shaky premise.  THe idea that this draft is "epic" and that the top 4 guys have a chance to be the Wade/Bosh/Bron/Melo of 2014.

Let's pretend for a second that the premise isn't completely ridiculous and that Embiid, Wiggins, Parker and Exum are all allstars in the making.  Let's say there is a massive drop-off after #4.

There are 3 games left in this season.  This win dropped us from #3 to #5.  By the end of the week we could slip to #7... some bad lotto luck will drop us to #9.  IF you like winning, why wouldn't you root for us to lose?  You wouldn't sacrifice a handful of meaningless games for a shot at securing a franchise player?  I don't understand that at all. 

I feel like the anti-tankers don't get the mindset.  We want to lose, because we like winning more than you do.  I don't want 3 wins and then another 26 win season.  I want 3 losses and a decade of 50+ wins.

And yeah, I get the whole "there is no certainty blah blah blah" dance that the anti-tankers throw out.  Whatever.  If we pretend for a second that the experts are right and Embiid, Wiggins, Parker and Exum are beasts... then we should all be 1000% on board with trying to land one of those guys.  If the experts end up being correct and we end up picking 6th thanks to a couple meaningless wins at the tail end of a dreadful 2014 season, I'm pretty certain nobody is going to be happy about it.

This is a great post that nicely sums up the attitude of tankers. 

You start by admitting that the whole tank philosophy is based on a "shaky premise."  Then, you go on to ask us to "pretend" that this "shaky premise . . . isn't completely ridiculous."

Once we've gotten to that point of accepting a truth that has no evidence behind it, then we must root for losses as the only answer.  Once we've embraced this "shaky premise," we should then begin to berate all fans who don't accept it as an objective truth.

Yes, this sums up the attitude of tankers nicely.

[nickagneta]

I feel like the anti-tankers don't get the mindset.  We want to lose, because we like winning more than you do.  I don't want 3 wins and then another 26 win season.  I want 3 losses and a decade of 50+ wins.

If the experts end up being correct and we end up picking 6th thanks to a couple meaningless wins at the tail end of a dreadful 2014 season, I'm pretty certain nobody is going to be happy about it.

Bingo. Then those "anti-tankers" will look back and say, "remember the year we could've had Joel Embiid or Andrew Wiggins? Too bad we missed out!"

The only time I ever remember this team's fans being angry over missing someone picked is when

1. When Player A was chosen and Player B who was chosen later in the draft was available.

2. When, in 1997 and 2007 the team tanked hard and missed out on the top picks because a team with a lesser chance in the lottery of winning jumped over the Celtics and got the top pick.

So, in reality, the ones I think that will be angry most come lottery day could very well be the tank crowd if the Celtics end up out of the top 4 because we got jumped by a team or teams behind us. The only way the anti tank crowd could make the claim you are making, and quite honestly I know enough of the posters advocating not to tank where I know your claim won't happen, is if the C's end up 4th or 5th in the lottery slot and the teams at 3 or 3 and 4 get into the top 3 or get the top pick.

Why? Because everyone knows we could have never caught Milwaukee and Philly so there's no reason to be upset if they end up in the top 3 so the only teams to be upset about finishing ahead of us where we could claim "remember when we could have had" is if the team(s) directly in front of us where we could have ended up win.

[clover]

My guess is that the tanker/anti-tanker divide comes down to one of personality, as often do political differences. For the tanker/anti-tanker split my further guess is that the famous psychology test involving marshmallows and delayed gratification would work as a rough operating proxy.

[cb8883]

While right now winning sucks, I'm not overly worried right now. Not until the ping pong balls drop.

We've have the 2nd worst record just a few years ago and still ended up with the 5th pic. Cleveland was suppose to get the 8th spot last year, and got the first.

This is also why I like that DA didn't make any drastic moves at the deadline. I'm not sure our record would have been that much worse by getting rid of some players. Not to the expense of getting rid of players for nothing. Where on draft night some of our players are going to be worth a lot more now.

So until draft night, I'm staying positive that it will all work out. DA has had his misses, but I think he's been also learning from them.

DA's biggest miss in his career was not getting rid of all these guys. If Bass Green Bradley and Rondo were not here we would be Philly and set up amazingly for the future. Instead we do have a bunch of picks from Brooklyn which is nice and all but being a big market team they will attract stars no problem. This team should be worse than it is regardless. I guess that we can fault Coach Stevens as well since he is trying to win every game despite the logic in tanking. Maybe next year when we go for Okafor he'll get the picture.

Good god, we're envying Philly as a basketball front office now?

Philly is assured of a top 5 pick in a loaded draft and has Noel and MCW to build around. Plus they have another pick from New Orleans this year on top of four second round picks. So yes in 4 years they'll be the envy of the Eastern Conference barring injury (with Noel that's very possible)

[KGs Knee]

TPs paid up.

But remember, only one TP per victory (tear).


Use this thread as your outlet to vent if you must, I won't say a word. Or just come here to get your TP, either way is fine.   I'm done arguing about the merits of tanking, or the ethics of it. I just don't see the point, and rather keep my sanity.   But as I said, as a matter of goodwill, any victory gets you a TP!     

[nickagneta]

While right now winning sucks, I'm not overly worried right now. Not until the ping pong balls drop.

We've have the 2nd worst record just a few years ago and still ended up with the 5th pic. Cleveland was suppose to get the 8th spot last year, and got the first.

This is also why I like that DA didn't make any drastic moves at the deadline. I'm not sure our record would have been that much worse by getting rid of some players. Not to the expense of getting rid of players for nothing. Where on draft night some of our players are going to be worth a lot more now.

So until draft night, I'm staying positive that it will all work out. DA has had his misses, but I think he's been also learning from them.

DA's biggest miss in his career was not getting rid of all these guys. If Bass Green Bradley and Rondo were not here we would be Philly and set up amazingly for the future. Instead we do have a bunch of picks from Brooklyn which is nice and all but being a big market team they will attract stars no problem. This team should be worse than it is regardless. I guess that we can fault Coach Stevens as well since he is trying to win every game despite the logic in tanking. Maybe next year when we go for Okafor he'll get the picture.

Good god, we're envying Philly as a basketball front office now?

Philly is assured of a top 5 pick in a loaded draft and has Noel and MCW to build around. Plus they have another pick from New Orleans this year on top of four second round picks. So yes in 4 years they'll be the envy of the Eastern Conference barring injury (with Noel that's very possible)

What exactly does all that guarantee Philly?

A ton of youth with nothing to surround it and teach it the ways of being a basketball professional. Unless that youth magically turns into youth like Durant, Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka, in other words each player there exceeds maximum expectations, what they get is another trip to the lottery for about another 4-5 years. Don't believe me, look at Charlotte and Minnesota and Sacramento.

Youth does not win in the NBA. Oklahoma City is the anomaly, not the rule.

[pokeKingCurtis]

This is what I see when I read this thread.

"Strategy?  Strategy?  What?  You all are so naive if you believe in a strategy.  All the experts are stupid.  STUPID!  And they don't know anything.  And there is no difference between the 1st pick and the 5th pick and the 18th pick because 2007 and Tim Duncan.  Win every game no matter what.  NO STRATEGY!  And anyone who cares about a long term vision of improving the team through the draft:  IDIOTS!  That's what I call them.  Hustle and win is the only strategy and we will win  the championship if we win games.  Win games!  Cause I love the Celtics, I am blind to any other possible strategy of improving besides:  Win the next game.

I feel like you're projecting because I don't feel like anyone's saying that...

STRATEGERY!

While right now winning sucks, I'm not overly worried right now. Not until the ping pong balls drop.

We've have the 2nd worst record just a few years ago and still ended up with the 5th pic. Cleveland was suppose to get the 8th spot last year, and got the first.

This is also why I like that DA didn't make any drastic moves at the deadline. I'm not sure our record would have been that much worse by getting rid of some players. Not to the expense of getting rid of players for nothing. Where on draft night some of our players are going to be worth a lot more now.

So until draft night, I'm staying positive that it will all work out. DA has had his misses, but I think he's been also learning from them.

DA's biggest miss in his career was not getting rid of all these guys. If Bass Green Bradley and Rondo were not here we would be Philly and set up amazingly for the future. Instead we do have a bunch of picks from Brooklyn which is nice and all but being a big market team they will attract stars no problem. This team should be worse than it is regardless. I guess that we can fault Coach Stevens as well since he is trying to win every game despite the logic in tanking. Maybe next year when we go for Okafor he'll get the picture.

Good god, we're envying Philly as a basketball front office now?

Philly is assured of a top 5 pick in a loaded draft and has Noel and MCW to build around. Plus they have another pick from New Orleans this year on top of four second round picks. So yes in 4 years they'll be the envy of the Eastern Conference barring injury (with Noel that's very possible)

There's a lot riding on that one pick. Let's not even talking about the pick busting. They could get a solid player who's not good enough to propel them (like Randle?). Noel hasn't played a second. It's just MCW at this point.

Philly's saying: "**** it. Shoot for the stars.", throwing away multiple seasons. And now it looks like Jabari Parker could be staying.

It's very possible we end up drafting at a higher spot than Philly, while keeping Rondo, AB, Sullinger, Green, Olynyk and Bass.

Not to say it's not very nice to get a top 5 pick in this draft. By all accounts they payoff could be immense.

But the odds are we're in that top 5 zone anyway.

There is so much randomness. The way I like to see it is we could potentially be dodging the next Adam Morrison...or the next Brandon Roy...by not completely ****ing the roster. Let the chips fall.

[Mr October]

I love the title of the thread. So good. TP to the op.

I am trying to rationalize that it will be ok to win another game or two and slide up the standings. Maybe it is good for the confidence of the youngsters? The celtics tanked so hard lately, even beating the sixers. And now it is only normal to pick up a few wins to end the year.

It's amazing how quickly you can go from a top 4 or 5 pick down to a pick around 6 or 7. And along with that comes a dramatic drop in ping pong ball odds.

It feels good to watch the team win in the moment, and then i am miserable when i look at the standings. Only 3 more games to go...

[Mr October]

While right now winning sucks, I'm not overly worried right now. Not until the ping pong balls drop.

We've have the 2nd worst record just a few years ago and still ended up with the 5th pic. Cleveland was suppose to get the 8th spot last year, and got the first.

This is also why I like that DA didn't make any drastic moves at the deadline. I'm not sure our record would have been that much worse by getting rid of some players. Not to the expense of getting rid of players for nothing. Where on draft night some of our players are going to be worth a lot more now.

So until draft night, I'm staying positive that it will all work out. DA has had his misses, but I think he's been also learning from them.

DA's biggest miss in his career was not getting rid of all these guys. If Bass Green Bradley and Rondo were not here we would be Philly and set up amazingly for the future. Instead we do have a bunch of picks from Brooklyn which is nice and all but being a big market team they will attract stars no problem. This team should be worse than it is regardless. I guess that we can fault Coach Stevens as well since he is trying to win every game despite the logic in tanking. Maybe next year when we go for Okafor he'll get the picture.

Good god, we're envying Philly as a basketball front office now?

Philly is assured of a top 5 pick in a loaded draft and has Noel and MCW to build around. Plus they have another pick from New Orleans this year on top of four second round picks. So yes in 4 years they'll be the envy of the Eastern Conference barring injury (with Noel that's very possible)

What exactly does all that guarantee Philly?

A ton of youth with nothing to surround it and teach it the ways of being a basketball professional. Unless that youth magically turns into youth like Durant, Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka, in other words each player there exceeds maximum expectations, what they get is another trip to the lottery for about another 4-5 years. Don't believe me, look at Charlotte and Minnesota and Sacramento.

Youth does not win in the NBA. Oklahoma City is the anomaly, not the rule.

Yeah, OKC may be the exception. They killed it in the draft for 3 straight years, picking up 5 good to great players. I cant think of another team pulling that off.

I might be jealous of Philly's draft position, but i wouldn't trade rosters, picks, and front offices with them. The sixers have a long climb ahead of them. They will probably be brutal to watch for the next 3-5 years, only to become mediocre. That's just how the NBA odds are unless you land a superstar.

[sofutomygaha]

This is the thread of the year, KGK, and you get my TP. I can't even be mad that it's making fun of me.


My name is sofutomygaha, and I'm a tankaholic. My tankaholism has isolated me from my family, friends, and bar-mates. It has put strain on my marriage. I am a poor example for for my children. I used to be a social tanker... merely indulging in "what if?" conversations among friends and celticsblog posters. In the last few months, though, I've been tanking alone. I wake up and I need that first mock draft just to get me through my morning commute.